[W:148] Affirmative Action promotes systemic racial discrimination.

[jaeger19]

Discriminating Toward Equality: Affirmative Action and the Diversity Charade

On October 15, 2013, the topic of affirmative action once again came before the United States Supreme Court. This time, the debate over race-based preferences came to the Court via Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, a case that challenges Michigan’s constitutional ban on...

www.heritage.org

At the time of my application, the university reviewed applications submitted by black, Native American, and Hispanic applicants under one standard and those submitted by everyone else under a much higher standard.[4] The school later claimed to simplify the admissions process by using a point system and automatically awarding an extra 20 points (out of 100) to select minorities. By comparison, a perfect SAT score earned an applicant only 12 points. Thus, even though I had good grades and a host of extracurricular activities, the university rejected my application because I had the wrong skin color. My case, Gratz v. Bollinger,[5] ultimately went before the Supreme Court, and in 2003, the Court ruled that racial discrimination had indeed taken place.

You realize that it has nothing to do with the actual affirmative action laws right?
The problem tor the school was that they wanted a diverse student body. But systemic racism being what it is..it made it difficult to find candidates that were minorities..so they tried to make up for systemic racism with their point system.

 

[Indydave]

When you can show me statistically that race is no longer a factor in social and economic outcomes then we will have succeeded in fixing the damage done over generations of oppression. But I don't think we are there yet. If we do as well in the next fifty years as we have in the last fifty we will be close. Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act into law in 1965. There are people still alive who could not drink out of the same water fountains as whites.

oppression of blacks cannot be denied but in the final analysis black Americans, if they want to be more accepted and included then they will have to commit to improving themselves to the same degree and standards all americans have to......whether they like it or not and whether it is fair or not

 

[AGENT J]

oppression of blacks cannot be denied but in the final analysis black Americans, if they want to be more accepted and included then they will have to commit to improving themselves to the same degree and standards all americans have to......whether they like it or not and whether it is fair or not

in your own words what does this mean?

more accepted how and by who?
more included how and by who?
what are the degrees of improving themselves blacks are not committing to?

 

[Nickyjo]

You raise many legit points.
There is really no question that AA is "racist", it puts an emphasis on hiring people based on their skin color. Thats pretty much the definition of "racist".
Your logic is sound IMO.

I used to work investigating discrimination claims in the 1970s. As I remember things, some of the problems AA caused in public perceptions were with its definition, or how some people, even employers, believed it meant quotas. As we understood AA, it meant things like advertising in black publications, noting that you were an equal opportunity or affirmative action employer in your ads, stating that women and minorities were encouraged to apply, stuff like that. At times there might be court mandated quota-like rules, which only operated when a pattern and practice of discrimination had been shown. It was, and I presume still is, against the law to deny someone a job/promotion or fire/demote them because they were white or male, and we occasionally got some complaints of that to investigate.

 

[Nickyjo]

Discriminating against Asian-American students applying to elite universities like Harvard and UC Berkeley has nothing to do with "your white wing tears". Indeed, your claim is little more than a lame ad hominem attack. All the more lame because my only child's mother is black. And I am retired so can neither be hurt or benefited myself by AA.

Do you support AA for the NBA and NFL, which based on the the severely under-represented number of Asian-Americans and even whites, is not nearly as diverse as is the US population? Or does it occur to you that merit based discrimination is not immoral? The systematic discrimination against people of Asian decent in academia in order to achieve "diversity goals" is immoral. Policies that systemically discriminate using race or gender as a factor are racist, sexists, and wrong. Try to accept that reality.

Here's thoughts or two for consideration about academic admissions. First, if a university knows from experience that anyone with a grade higher than 70% on an admission test will do ok in their studies, should they be required to admit someone who scores a 90 over someone who scores an 80? Second, if a school believes that a diverse student body creates a better educational experience for all students, can race, national origin or gender be a factor in choosing those who have scored well enough to do ok in the college? Third, could one look at legacy admissions as affirmative action for white students? And of course fourth, are athletic scholarships that involve lower academic standards problematic? It seems that while some students may get preference because they score higher on tests than others, other students may get preference because they run faster than others.

 

[craig]

oppression of blacks cannot be denied but in the final analysis black Americans, if they want to be more accepted and included then they will have to commit to improving themselves to the same degree and standards all americans have to......whether they like it or not and whether it is fair or not

I think they have and against extraordinary headwinds.

 

[jaypatriot]

oppression of blacks cannot be denied but in the final analysis black Americans, if they want to be more accepted and included then they will have to commit to improving themselves to the same degree and standards all americans have to......whether they like it or not and whether it is fair or not

dave,
I'm one of those resourceful, independent Conservatives who totally agrees with.

I would have asked your friend , craig, how you prove a negative.
How do you actually prove that "race is a factor in social and economic outcomes".?
There are so many successful middle-class blacks in our society, not to mention successful black billionaires.
Just how does race in this country slow one down from moving up the income ladder?

Progressives who live to preach inclusiveness, equity (in everything), and diversity never want to hear anyone say there is no systemic racism in this country.
But I believe everyone born and raised in this country has an opportunity to go to school, join the military, get a college education and ultimately make their way up the income ladder to get out of poverty.
Of course, that line of thinking is anathema to 'woke' Progressives who are so tied to their ideology they will never listen to common sense and realize, in this country, victimhood is not a pretty coat to wear.

 

[jaypatriot]

I think they have and against extraordinary headwinds.

I , too, experienced extraordinary headwinds having grown up on the lower East Side of Manhattan decades ago. Life was not pretty and nothing was given to me. Getting mugged and beaten up by gangs from "the projects" made me want to join gangs for revenge. But my parents were dedicated to getting me a decent education in a dangerous neighborhood.
Too bad so many kids don't have that kind of guidance from their parents - or even a single parent because lots of those kids who join gangs don't have fathers around to keep them on the straight and narrow.

 

[mrjurrs]

The European White Male gets a bad rap today IMO.

My people and I have accomplished much, probably more by far than any other demographic on the face of the earth. Thats nothing to be ashamed of IMO.
Now sure, we've made some mistakes as all people have. But IMO focusing on the negatives is pointless.

Its a spectacularly successful heritage deserving of recognition, again IMO. Theres nothing wrong with being proud of my heritage and accomplishments.

Here's some recognition for you...

 

[jaypatriot]

Here's some recognition for you...
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Is it your job in our society to focus on the negative.
Do you have anything good to say about the America of our past?

 

[craig]

I , too, experienced extraordinary headwinds having grown up on the lower East Side of Manhattan decades ago. Life was not pretty and nothing was given to me. Getting mugged and beaten up by gangs from "the projects" made me want to join gangs for revenge. But my parents were dedicated to getting me a decent education in a dangerous neighborhood.
Too bad so many kids don't have that kind of guidance from their parents - or even a single parent because lots of those kids who join gangs don't have fathers around to keep them on the straight and narrow.

So you wish you had been black so you had a worse time to test your self?

 

[LostinThought]

oppression of blacks cannot be denied but in the final analysis black Americans, if they want to be more accepted and included then they will have to commit to improving themselves to the same degree and standards all americans have to......whether they like it or not and whether it is fair or not

That's not exactly an easy thing to do, even for those that were born in this country.
The problem with most instances here is that the prospect of improving their "Here & Now", will almost always outweigh improving their lives in the long term. It was so much so, that such a topic was a comedic discussion around the same time that Richard Prior was still on the circuit. The punch line being "Why rebuild your community when you can upgrade your car?" Pointing out the strange phenomenon of inner city residents, to just tool out their cars to such an extreme. Despite constantly being late for rent, working dead end jobs and so on.

 

[jaypatriot]

So you wish you had been black so you had a worse time to test your self?

If I had been born black I would wish that I could realize at a very early age that I would never be a victim; never have to join a gang because my father left my mother; I would value education as one of the most important opportunities for me in the entire world; and I never heard of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.
That's a lot of wishes for a little kid to make. But those wishes, if true, would keep me out of jail; off of drugs, and maybe keep me from getting shot.

 

[Credence]

The reality is AA has long been used to systematically discriminate against white and increasingly Asian Americans. When you have different standards for applicants for a job or for acceptance to an elite university that is even in part based on gender and/or race/ethnicity you are in fact undermining merit and discriminating against people based on race and/or gender. That is racist and/or sexist. Do you need proof that Asian-Americans are being systematically discriminated against at Harvard or UC Berkeley? How about the fact that the average SAT scores of Asian-Americans accepted at both universities are hundreds of points higher for Asian-Americans than for blacks, Native-Americans, and Hispanic-Americans?

70% of Asian Americans support affirmative action. Here's why misconceptions persist.​

70% of Asian Americans support affirmative action. Here's why misconceptions persist.

With the Harvard affirmative action case a step closer to the Supreme Court, Asian American activists say much of their work involves dispelling myths about affirmative action's impacts.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Credence]

Being a minority who happens to be married to an AA, we appreciate Affirmative action. Had it not been for affirmative action, hubby would have never gotten contracts to even get his foot in the door and its not because he's not qualified.

Reading some of these posts; some are stereotyping blacks. Black people are NOT monolithic

 

[Citizen]

Being married to an AA, we appreciate Affirmative action. Had it not been for affirmative action, hubby would have never gotten contracts to even get his foot in the door and its not because he's not qualified.

Reading some of these posts; some are stereotyping blacks. Black people are NOT monolithic

Yeah, white privilege promotes systemic racial discrimination.

 

[Credence]

Being a minority who happens to be married to an AA, we appreciate Affirmative action. Had it not been for affirmative action, hubby would have never gotten contracts to even get his foot in the door and its not because he's not qualified.

Reading some of these posts; some are stereotyping blacks. Black people are NOT monolithic

Oh and one more thing, Asian Americans are covered under Affirmative Action as well as other qualified minorities, disabled people, women (of any race); Veterans, NY has many MBE's that are Asian. Hubby works with them every day

 

[TurtleDude]

70% of Asian Americans support affirmative action. Here's why misconceptions persist.​

70% of Asian Americans support affirmative action. Here's why misconceptions persist.

With the Harvard affirmative action case a step closer to the Supreme Court, Asian American activists say much of their work involves dispelling myths about affirmative action's impacts.

www.nbcnews.com

that's because 70% are not affected. Applying to state U is not an issue. It is the top 5% who are applying to the best schools who are victimized by affirmative racism

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah, white privilege promotes systemic racial discrimination.

what promotes failing stay in school
failing to avoid criminal records
failing to remain childless before being married and having a career?

"white privilege"?

what white"privilege" is -is a pathetic excuse some use for failure and which some scumbag politicians and "leaders" use to pander to those who don't want to blame themselves for their own issues

 

[Logician Man]

<<< those who don't want to blame themselves for their own issues

 

[jaypatriot]

Being a minority who happens to be married to an AA, we appreciate Affirmative action. Had it not been for affirmative action, hubby would have never gotten contracts to even get his foot in the door and its not because he's not qualified.

Reading some of these posts; some are stereotyping blacks. Black people are NOT monolithic

Thank heavens there are millions of black middle-families who, through perseverance and hard work, keep bigots and racists from dwelling on stereotypes of African Americans.
The saddest stereotype is the notion of young black men in our inner cities having to join gangs, deal in drugs, and engage in shootouts in order to preserve their turf.
Is that a stereotype or is it a tragic fact? Let's ask Lori Lightfoot who is probably out of ideas as to how to keep young black men in Chicago from killing each other.

 

[jaypatriot]

Yeah, white privilege promotes systemic racial discrimination.

Too bad you can't prove that in order to get more people with logical minds to agree with you.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Is it your job in our society to focus on the negative.
Do you have anything good to say about the America of our past?

More negative than positive in the American past and present when it comes to racism and discrimination against non-whites.

 

[craig]

I think a single generation swap of all inheritance between white and minority Americans would solve the problem

 

[Old 'N Chill]

I , too, experienced extraordinary headwinds having grown up on the lower East Side of Manhattan decades ago. Life was not pretty and nothing was given to me. Getting mugged and beaten up by gangs from "the projects" made me want to join gangs for revenge. But my parents were dedicated to getting me a decent education in a dangerous neighborhood.

Hilarious! Cry me a river!