[W:136] Democratic Congressional Members Condemn Statement by Ilhan Omar Equating U.S., Israel, with Hamas, Taliban

[Tigerace117]

Palestinians, regardless of where their people are socially, do not deserve the genocide being committed against them. You want to justify this genocide by telling a gay woman “but they hate gay people”. I dunno what to tell ya here, if you believe that progressive belieif systems include murdering people we don’t agree with socially, I’d argue your hot take on what progressive belief systems are or should be is trash.

It’s not hypocritical to believe all people, including those you don’t agree with, should be safe from genocide. Telling me that christians are highlighting someone else’s supposed hypocrisy when they’re doing this in urging the destruction of a people is something I guess I can live with.

If progressives don’t give a shit about a regime which literally keeps women as sex slaves and engages in campaigns of borderline genocide, then how, exactly, are you lot any different than the worst of the conservatives?

 

[Cardinal]

If progressives don’t give a shit about a regime which literally keeps women as sex slaves and engages in campaigns of borderline genocide, then how, exactly, are you lot any different than the worst of the conservatives?

I just don’t see why the total lack of progressive values in strict Islamic society has to figure into this topic. As a progressive myself, obviously I don’t support their totally non-progressive values, and obviously I would be loathe to live under their rules myself, and obviously Hamas is extremely awful. With all that in mind, is there some material net benefit in home displacement that I’m missing here? Because right now the only people I see benefiting from this are the ultra-orthodox Jews who are taking other people’s homes because they believe god gave them the land. Oh, and it benefits Hamas because home displacement cements in the people’s minds that Israeli Jews are the primary enemy.

 

[Tigerace117]

I just don’t see why the total lack of progressive values in strict Islamic society has to figure into this topic. As a progressive myself, obviously I don’t support their totally non-progressive values, and obviously I would be loathe to live under their rules myself, and obviously Hamas is very bad. With that in mind, is there some material net benefit in home displacement that I’m missing here? Because right now the only people I see benefiting from this are the ultra-orthodox Jews who are taking other people’s homes because they believe god gave them the land.

The fact that Aunt Antifa openly stated she doesn’t care about the folks who were murdered by Osama Bin Laden and his cronies—- as well as the fact that she claimed the US is “far worse than the Taliban”— shows a rather warped idea of “morality”.....which is the point I was addressing.

 

[Cardinal]

The fact that Aunt Antifa openly stated she doesn’t care about the folks who were murdered by Osama Bin Laden and his cronies—- as well as the fact that she claimed the US is “far worse than the Taliban”— shows a rather warped idea of “morality”.....which is the point I was addressing.

It’s too easy to let other people’s extreme arguments frame your own position. It’s much better to simply state your own case of what is wrong, what should be, and why.

 

[cpwill]

You think that how people respond to the message is more important than the message itself.

In this thread, that is indeed what is under discussion. Democrats handled something appropriately and well.

What if the people responding to the message are just really stupid?

Never an option to be underestimated, for sure; but, that's not what Omar said. She said they were Islamaphobes. Do you agree with her claim?

Also, you have yet to clarify your earlier seeming-statement that, in your opinion, the left should value tribal unity over other moral factors, because the right did.

 

[Cardinal]

In this thread, that is indeed what is under discussion. Democrats handled something appropriately and well.



Never an option to be underestimated, for sure; but, that's not what Omar said. She said they were Islamaphobes. Do you agree with her claim?

What was her message? When answering, remember that it’s her question to Secretary Blinken that started all of this.

 

[cpwill]

What was her message? When answering, remember that it’s her question to Secretary Blinken that started all of this.

In this case, it presented the Taliban, the U.S., Hamas, and Israel as equivalents. That was what her fellow Democrats criticized her for, for which she called them Islamaphobic. Do you agree with her assessment of her fellow Democrats?

 

[Cardinal]

In this case, it presented the Taliban, the U.S., Hamas, and Israel as equivalents.

False. Watch the video and try again.

That was what her fellow Democrats criticized her for, for which she called them Islamaphobic. Do you agree with her assessment of her fellow Democrats?

 

[cpwill]

False. Watch the video and try again.

I did. I have to come to a similar conclusion as Democratic Representatives Brad Schnider, Jake Auchincloss, Ted Deutch, Lois Frankel, Josh Gottheimer, Elaine Luria, Kathy Manning, Jerrold Nadler, Dean Phillips, Kim Schrier, Brad Sherman, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Representative Omar responded by calling them Islamophobic. Do you agree with her?

 

[Cardinal]

I did. I have to come to a similar conclusion as Democratic Representatives Brad Schnider, Jake Auchincloss, Ted Deutch, Lois Frankel, Josh Gottheimer, Elaine Luria, Kathy Manning, Jerrold Nadler, Dean Phillips, Kim Schrier, Brad Sherman, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Representative Omar responded by calling them Islamophobic. Do you agree with her?

Can you reproduce Omar's question here? I want to see if you comprehend it, or even know what it is.

 

[cpwill]

Can you reproduce Omar's question here? I want to see if you comprehend it, or even know what it is.

Oh, I'm aware. Do you agree with her claim that Democratic Representatives Brad Schnider, Jake Auchincloss, Ted Deutch, Lois Frankel, Josh Gottheimer, Elaine Luria, Kathy Manning, Jerrold Nadler, Dean Phillips, Kim Schrier, Brad Sherman, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz are Islamophobic?

More to the point - though I'm happy to point out the fact that Blinken was correct, and both Israel and the U.S. have domestic and military judicial systems capable of handling accusations of abuse, first we have to answer - why are you so unwilling to answer that question, or the earlier request for you to explain your logic in the post where you seemingly argued that the highest moral value was tribalism?

 

[cpwill]

If progressives don’t give a shit about a regime which literally keeps women as sex slaves and engages in campaigns of borderline genocide, then how, exactly, are you lot any different than the worst of the conservatives?

They're not. Being horrible isn't a conservative failing. It's also not a progressive failing. It's a terribly, terribly, human failing

 

[Cardinal]

Oh, I'm aware.

Okay, so what is it?

Do you agree with her claim that Democratic Representatives Brad Schnider, Jake Auchincloss, Ted Deutch, Lois Frankel, Josh Gottheimer, Elaine Luria, Kathy Manning, Jerrold Nadler, Dean Phillips, Kim Schrier, Brad Sherman, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz are Islamophobic?

If you were to add a million more names I might be impressed. Impressed, that is, that you bothered to list them; I wouldn't be impressed by the names themselves, I'm afraid.

More to the point - though I'm happy to point out the fact that Blinken was correct, and both Israel and the U.S. have domestic and military judicial systems capable of handling accusations of abuse,

Really. Can you point me to an instance of a Palestinian filing a complaint over home displacement with Israel, the US or the ICC and getting redress? Or, for that matter, over abuses by Hamas?

first we have to answer - why are you so unwilling to answer that question,

You mean the question inspired by your false premise? That question?

or the earlier request for you to explain your logic in the post where you seemingly argued that the highest moral value was tribalism?

I think that if all the straw men arguments were erased from the internet, over 90% of your posts would disappear in the blink of an eye.

 

[DataPoint]

Oh, I'm aware. Do you agree with her claim that Democratic Representatives Brad Schnider, Jake Auchincloss, Ted Deutch, Lois Frankel, Josh Gottheimer, Elaine Luria, Kathy Manning, Jerrold Nadler, Dean Phillips, Kim Schrier, Brad Sherman, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz are Islamophobic?

More to the point - though I'm happy to point out the fact that Blinken was correct, and both Israel and the U.S. have domestic and military judicial systems capable of handling accusations of abuse, first we have to answer - why are you so unwilling to answer that question, or the earlier request for you to explain your logic in the post where you seemingly argued that the highest moral value was tribalism?

so you don't understand her question or able to repeat it

that's obvious

 

[cpwill]

Okay, so what is it?



If you were to add a million more names I might be impressed. Impressed, that is, that you bothered to list them; I wouldn't be impressed by the names themselves, I'm afraid.



Really. Can you point me to an instance of a Palestinian filing a complaint over home displacement with Israel, the US or the ICC and getting redress? Or, for that matter, over abuses by Hamas?



You mean the question inspired by your false premise? That question?



I think that if all the straw men arguments were erased from the internet, over 90% of your posts would disappear in the blink of an eye.

Cool, but, I didn't ask if you were impressed. I asked if you agreed with Omar that they were Islamaphobic

 

[cpwill]

so you don't understand her question or able to repeat it

that's obvious

No I get her question - like Blinken, I disagree with her premise. I also disagree with her conflation of unlike entities, as did her Democratic colleagues and Democratic party leadership.

As a Conservative, its' incumbent on me to be honest about where the GOP goes wrong (and boy, howdy, has it ever), and there the Democrats get it right (and, here, they have). So I try to do so .

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Oh, I'm aware. Do you agree with her claim that Democratic Representatives Brad Schnider, Jake Auchincloss, Ted Deutch, Lois Frankel, Josh Gottheimer, Elaine Luria, Kathy Manning, Jerrold Nadler, Dean Phillips, Kim Schrier, Brad Sherman, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz are Islamophobic?

More to the point - though I'm happy to point out the fact that Blinken was correct, and both Israel and the U.S. have domestic and military judicial systems capable of handling accusations of abuse, first we have to answer - why are you so unwilling to answer that question, or the earlier request for you to explain your logic in the post where you seemingly argued that the highest moral value was tribalism?

Capable and exercising those capabilities are two different things.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

The fact that Aunt Antifa openly stated she doesn’t care about the folks who were murdered by Osama Bin Laden and his cronies—- as well as the fact that she claimed the US is “far worse than the Taliban”— shows a rather warped idea of “morality”.....which is the point I was addressing.

How many innocent people do you suppose we killed over there in the course of 20 years? More than 3k? How many innocent civilians does an American have to root on to die before they can be considered to have a warped idea of morality?

Ghead, tell me all about how they got it comin’ for harboring terrorists. I’ll point you to AQ’s argument that the folks working for the WTC supporting our government had it comin too. Ghead, gimme some of those Islamic terrorist talking points you love so much.

 

[Cardinal]

Cool, but, I didn't ask if you were impressed. I asked if you agreed with Omar that they were Islamaphobic

You say you understand her question but not her premise. So can you point me to an instance of a Palestinian filing a complaint over home displacement with Israel, the US or the ICC and getting redress? Or, for that matter, over abuses by Hamas?

 

[cpwill]

You say you understand her question but not her premise.

I understand both. Do you understand that Ilhan Omar called the other Democratic Congressional members Islamophobic? Do you think that was correct, or incorrect on her part?

 

[Cardinal]

I understand both. Do you understand that Ilhan Omar called the other Democratic Congressional members Islamophobic? Do you think that was correct, or incorrect on her part?

Since you disagree with her premise, can you point me to an instance of a Palestinian filing a complaint over home displacement with Israel, the US or the ICC and getting redress? Or, for that matter, over abuses by Hamas? And successfully getting accountability?

 

[cpwill]

Since you disagree with her premise, can you point me to an instance of a Palestinian filing a complaint over home displacement with Israel, the US or the ICC and getting redress? Or, for that matter, over abuses by Hamas? And successfully getting accountability?

Google is your friend here and you will learn that yes, in fact, Palestinians have access to and have won in Israeli courts, but, you keep ducking the question about whether or not you agree with Omar about her fellow Democratic Congress members. Why?

 

[Tigerace117]

How many innocent people do you suppose we killed over there in the course of 20 years? More than 3k? How many innocent civilians does an American have to root on to die before they can be considered to have a warped idea of morality?

Ghead, tell me all about how they got it comin’ for harboring terrorists. I’ll point you to AQ’s argument that the folks working for the WTC supporting our government had it comin too. Ghead, gimme some of those Islamic terrorist talking points you love so much.

There’s a very significant difference between people occasionally being killed in strikes gone awry and deliberately targeting as many civilians as possible for death, as the Taliban does. The US isn’t “rooting on innocent civilians to die”; we are doing our best to help the government of Afghanistan, like numerous other countries around the globe, protect its people from such groups.

The difference, of course, is that the people in the WTC and on those airliners hadn’t done anything to hurt anyone, while the Taliban thugs you are so concerned over were already enslaving women and blowing up Hazara markets even before Bin Laden showed up.

As usual, your desperate attempts at drawing an equivalence are both laughable and pathetic.

 

[Cardinal]

Google is your friend here and you will learn that yes, in fact, Palestinians have access to and have won in Israeli courts, but, you keep ducking the question about whether or not you agree with Omar about her fellow Democratic Congress members. Why?

They’ve won in Israeli courts over land displacements?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

There’s a very significant difference between people occasionally being killed in strikes gone awry and deliberately targeting as many civilians as possible for death, as the Taliban does.

How many do you think were killed, occasionally speaking?

The difference, of course, is that the people in the WTC and on those airliners hadn’t done anything to hurt anyone, while the Taliban thugs you are so concerned over were already enslaving women and blowing up Hazara markets even before Bin Laden showed up.

Vs the people we occasionally kill that you won’t count, literally and figuratively. You keep telling me their lives are unimportant compared to the 3k that died on 9/11.