[W:132]Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border...

[Arby]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

I get it now. You re one of those dishonest types who truly believes if you put a word like SEEMS or I THINK or IT MIGHT BE or I GUESS or COULD BE or variations of those terms, that it gives you unrestricted license to make claims that you do not have to back up because its just you blowing smoke as opposed to making an allegation of claimed fact.

WOW!!!!!!

Just playing the same silly game you play.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Just playing the same silly game you play.

The only thing I do is engage in debate and part of that is challenging the alleged claims of others to back up their statements. You could not do so regarding your statement on liberals and Stormy Daniels.

 

[Arby]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

The only thing I do is engage in debate and part of that is challenging the alleged claims of others to back up their statements. You could not do so regarding your statement on liberals and Stormy Daniels.

Then try backing up your BS about the NRA.

 

[Carleen]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trumps Wall is about trying to do what he told us that he would try to do.

Trump, one of the last honest guys around.

He told us Mexico would pay for the wall over and over again. He lied to us.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Then try backing up your BS about the NRA.

What so called "bs" are you referring to?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

He told us Mexico would pay for the wall over and over again. He lied to us.

Congressional demorats also lie when they assert that they are for better border security. Where, exactly, is that proposal? Do not refer to parts of "comprehensive reform" packages like the 1986 'deal' which assured us that amnesty would be a one time affair followed immediately by securing the border.

 

[veritas1]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

The wall will work. Everyone knows this including Democrats, maybe especially Democrats. That is why they oppose it. They oppose real border security. That has become clear.

 

[jnug]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Congressional demorats also lie when they assert that they are for better border security. Where, exactly, is that proposal? Do not refer to parts of "comprehensive reform" packages like the 1986 'deal' which assured us that amnesty would be a one time affair followed immediately by securing the border.

The Executive proposes, the Legislature disposes. That is how it works, particularly when the President made it HIS issue. Its that simple.

Since he has yet to come up to Congress proposing ANYTHING, he is lucky he got the $1.6B he got in the earlier CR.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

The wall will work. Everyone knows this including Democrats, maybe especially Democrats. That is why they oppose it. They oppose real border security. That has become clear.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this, but it is my understand that what is commonly called THE WALL is only intended to be a partial obstacle to be erected at various portions of the US - MEXICO border and will absolutely not be along the entire border.

Is that correct?

 

[veritas1]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Please correct me if I am wrong on this, but it is my understand that what is commonly called THE WALL is only intended to be a partial obstacle to be erected at various portions of the US - MEXICO border and will absolutely not be along the entire border.

Is that correct?

It won't be in very mountainous regions but those are areas which can easily be monitored by other means. The wall will work quite effectively. Any argument that walls don't work is simply nonsense. They do. It's why people keep building them.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

It won't be in very mountainous regions but those are areas which can easily be monitored by other means. The wall will work quite effectively. Any argument that walls don't work is simply nonsense. They do. It's why people keep building them.

I do not understand what you mean when you say some areas can "easily be monitored by other means". Can you explain that?

If at some point the wall is no longer there, why can't someone simply enter at that point or wherever the wall is not in place? Why would I bother going through a barrier when I can go around it?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

The Executive proposes, the Legislature disposes. That is how it works, particularly when the President made it HIS issue. Its that simple.

Since he has yet to come up to Congress proposing ANYTHING, he is lucky he got the $1.6B he got in the earlier CR.

I agree that the onus is on Trump (et al) to explain how Mexico is paying for the Great Wall Of Trump (his very clear campaign promise). But it is also incumbent on all of those who assert that they are for "better border security" to come forward with their own plan's details so that they may be evaluated and/or implemented. The simple truth of the matter is that nobody in congress wants to change the illegal immigration situation and the easiest way to do that is by not offering or passing any proposed changes.

 

[veritas1]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

I do not understand what you mean when you say some areas can "easily be monitored by other means". Can you explain that?

If at some point the wall is no longer there, why can't someone simply enter at that point or wherever the wall is not in place? Why would I bother going through a barrier when I can go around it?

So, we simply closely monitor those areas such as mountainous regions where the wall doesn't exist. It's a heck of lot easier than monitoring the entire border as we have to do now isn't it? The wall will funnel people to specific areas. It's not hard to figure out.

 

[D_NATURED]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trump is the most honest guy to come down the Pike in a long while.

Not having a filter between his pea brain and his big, fat mouth is NOT honesty, it's a lack of introspection. Why do you continue to heap praise upon this dolt?

 

[jnug]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

I agree that the onus is on Trump (et al) to explain how Mexico is paying for the Great Wall Of Trump (his very clear campaign promise). But it is also incumbent on all of those who assert that they are for "better border security" to come forward with their own plan's details so that they may be evaluated and/or implemented. The simple truth of the matter is that nobody in congress wants to change the illegal immigration situation and the easiest way to do that is by not offering or passing any proposed changes.

Least we forget, though it did not adhere to any process and was simply a concoction of "lets make a deal" Donald, he had the money for his Wall, all $25B of it in a trade DACA for the Wall Bill. Ludicrous on its surface because it was based on nothing but Trump Wall wailing. However, he could have had it if he did not insist on Steve Miller's absurdly draconian changes to Legal Immigration. A bill that was DACA for Wall only fell 6 votes shy of passage in the Senate and only because Trump insisted on the GOP votes to kill it. The Bill Trump supported which was Wall plus Miller Nonsense only attracted 39 votes in the Senate, the worst showing of the 4 Bills brought to the floor. A quick count of GOP Senators would reveal that even they did not want to pass a bill with Miller's garbage in it.

Just for clarity, the only reason McConnell allowed those 4 Bills a shot at a vote on the Floor was because he had agreed to it as part of the CR negotiations from earlier in the year.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

So, we simply closely monitor those areas such as mountainous regions where the wall doesn't exist. It's a heck of lot easier than monitoring the entire border as we have to do now isn't it? The wall will funnel people to specific areas. It's not hard to figure out.

How so? Monitoring is monitoring is monitoring. I think Shakespeare said that or something much like it. If that works for one mile - it should work for each and every mile.

 

[veritas1]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

How so? Monitoring is monitoring is monitoring. I think Shakespeare said that or something much like it. If that works for one mile - it should work for each and every mile.

If you have a 30 ft wall vs chicken wire, which do you think requires more manpower? The manpower not needed to guard the chicken wire can be used elsewhere.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

It won't be in very mountainous regions but those are areas which can easily be monitored by other means. The wall will work quite effectively. Any argument that walls don't work is simply nonsense. They do. It's why people keep building them.

The entire wall would need to be monitored to prevent the "over" and "under" defeat mechanisms, just as the areas with no wall need to be monitored to prevent the "around" defeat mechanism.

That's what Israel does. You can't just throw up a wall and walk away.

Bottom line : this wall is just another TRUMP product - all faux glitz and minimal if any practical functionality.

Go get the Mexican check Trump promised you and you can build it. Make sure you pay people before you seize land to build...

 

[haymarket]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

If you have a 30 ft wall vs chicken wire, which do you think requires more manpower? The manpower not needed to guard the chicken wire can be used elsewhere.

That is a false choice. I never said anything about chicken wire.

 

[Carleen]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Congressional demorats also lie when they assert that they are for better border security. Where, exactly, is that proposal? Do not refer to parts of "comprehensive reform" packages like the 1986 'deal' which assured us that amnesty would be a one time affair followed immediately by securing the border.

The Dems have repeatedly said that we need more security at the borders. They are talking about better technology versus a physical wall which makes much more sense. Also Trump already has 1.6 billion approved of last year by both parties. What has been done with that? Nothing

 

[veritas1]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

The entire wall would need to be monitored to prevent the "over" and "under" defeat mechanisms, just as the areas with no wall need to be monitored to prevent the "around" defeat mechanism.

That's what Israel does. You can't just throw up a wall and walk away.

Bottom line : this wall is just another TRUMP product - all faux glitz and minimal if any practical functionality.

Go get the Mexican check Trump promised you and you can build it. Make sure you pay people before you seize land to build...

Look it's very simple. If having a wall is no better than not having a wall, then we should stop building walls. In fact, we should take down all the barriers since they must be even less effective than walls. This is the nonsensical position the left has put itself in. The wall will work. It's why the left opposes it.

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

I'm still waiting for the day when an honest journalist would ask "Why?" after Chuck Schumer type insists a Wall would be ineffective.
I really want to hear his answer and any followups.

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

The Dems have repeatedly said that we need more security at the borders. They are talking about better technology versus a physical wall which makes much more sense. Also Trump already has 1.6 billion approved of last year by both parties. What has been done with that? Nothing

Why??

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Look it's very simple. If having a wall is no better than not having a wall, then we should stop building walls. In fact, we should take down all the barriers since they must be even less effective than walls. This is the nonsensical position the left has put itself in. The wall will work. It's why the left opposes it.

Your argument is a reducto absurdum.

What percentage of the immigration problem will be solved by a wall? You have no idea.

If we build a taxpayer funded wall along the entire southern and fund 24/7 monitoring of said wall it will probably help some. How much will that cost? Again, you have no idea.

Ladders and tunnels are a great deal cheaper than the great wall of dRumpf.

Walls make sense in some situations, not all. Build walls where it makes sense, not where the collective ego of the Trump cult dictates.

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trump has been repining about his wall for, what, three years now. Why? Because it's politically expedient for him to do so, for among his benighted base, it's galvanizing and because for him it's a matter of ego, looking tough. He said he'd build a beautiful wall; laughable as it was, he referenced his experience in real estate as a basis for his knowing how to build a wall; he said Mexico would pay for his wall; and he led stadium-sized throngs of nitwits (they lacked the sense to know it wasn't doable "from jump") in "build the wall" and "Mexico's going to pay for it" chants.

How do we know that the wall is about politics, about having a rallying/talking point, and that increasing border security is sought not seminally but only ostensibly?

• Because at the start of the year, Trump turned down a chance to get $25 billion for his border wall and he later lobbied against a bill providing deportation protections for young undocumented immigrants and $25 billion in border wall funding because he wanted cuts to legal immigration as well.
  • Jan. 2018 --> How Democrats Stopped Worrying and Learned to Accept Trump's Wall
  • Feb 15, 2018 --> Senate rejects bill offering $25B for wall

That was two $25B opportunities to get Trump his wall in less than a month and Trump/Congressional Republicans abjured both. Why did they reject the bills? Because to get the $25, Trump/GOP-ers had to agree to a path to citizenship for the ~700K DACA people....As if those folks had anything to do with wall's imagined or realizable border security returns....They're already here. No wall isn't going to stop them from entering the US.​

• Because illegal immigration has been declining steadily for about a decade and even the CBP's data shows so.
  • in 2017, border arrests had dropped to a historic low; to find a year with fewer border arrests, you have to go back all the way to 1971.
  • September 2017 DHS report noted that “the southwest land border is more difficult to illegally cross today than ever before.”
  • Border Crossings Have Been Declining for Years, Despite Claims of a ‘Crisis of Illegal Immigration’
  • Is the US in an 'illegal' immigration crisis? Border patrol data suggests otherwise
• Because nobody who wants the wall has presented a methodologically sound economic case showing the wall is "worth it." How can one show the wall is economically worth it? Three steps:
  1. Show that southern-border illegal immigrants' demand function is (has been and will remain) quadratic or higher order and that:
     - if quadratic, the minimum has been reached and can only be held thus by installing a wall
     - if cubic or higher order, a local minimum has been reached and the curve minimum cannot be reached without the wall
  2. Show that (A) the net economic impact (gains less costs) of installing and maintaining the wall bests (B) the net economic impact of not installing and maintaining the wall.
     • FWIW, the CIS has already calculated B. (see note 1.)
  3. Produce a sound quantitative methodology for measuring the post installation realized net economic impact of installing the wall. (I asked wall advocates here for such a methodology; not one wall advocate -- the folks burdened with showing the performance of the wall -- presented one. I also haven't seen one from non-DP analysts, the closest being "quick and dirty" summary-level qualitative evaluation and others like it.)
• Because the Trump Administration was offered $1.6B for border security and won't accept it.

Wall advocates aren't going to be able to get past "quadratic".