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[W:130]Trump Struggles to Master Role of Military Commander

Born Free said:
You say Trump screwed the VA once again. Now tell me what Obamafail did for the VA?

I'll wait
Click to expand...
Your dodge does not work.
Where exactly did I talk about Obama.
Show where or admit your error.

EB27BB22-C502-464E-8792-3EF647DCE569.png
 
SMTA said:
Your dodge does not work.
Where exactly did I talk about Obama.
Show where or admit your error.

View attachment 67245200
Click to expand...

I know you don't like the facts.

You're covering for your guy Obamafail. You don't have to answer, Obamafail did absolutely nothing for the Vets, he let them stand in line waiting for medical care and they died while waiting under Obamafail. Obamafail was a coward.

Your boring me. :yawn:
 
Born Free said:
I know you don't like the facts.

You're covering for your guy Obamafail. You don't have to answer, Obamafail did absolutely nothing for the Vets, he let them stand in line waiting for medical care and they died while waiting under Obamafail. Obamafail was a coward.

Your boring me. :yawn:
Click to expand...

You're is the same as you are. (you should have used this)
They are not the same as your, which indicates possession.
I am humorously entertained and not bored yet.
You should work on your (not you're or you are) grammar skills.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Trump continues to push the false news that no one has done more for the US military in recent times than Donald Trump. Many veterans I know shake their heads in disbelief. After the political deployment of troops at the US border, after the monumental (no pun intended) presidential **** up in Paris and the following **** up for not making a visit to Arlington National Cemetery because of rain again Trump's flack team decided that a quick visit to the Marine barracks 20 minutes from the White House would make it all better.

Nothing like a surprise ass covering visit from a public official to improve morale among the troops. :lamo Yeah, use them again for a photo op to cover rolling **** ups the President caused only a week before.

And now we hear that the reason President Bone Spurs has never visited troops deployed in a combat zone is not because he is scared ****less, not because it might be raining but because he doesn't support the missions where the troops are deployed!

Here's what President Bone Spurs doesn't know. It is very likely that a majority of troops deployed don't support the mission either. But those people show up. They do it when they hate it. They do it when they are scared. They do it when they are dog tired. They do it when they don't feel well. They do it when it is raining. They do and then they rotate home and they do it again when redeployed.

They do it out of duty and honor, self-respect and out of respect for each other. None of those things - none - are understood or exhibited by their Commander-in-chief.


[/FONT][/COLOR]



Source
Click to expand...


It's roundly understood that Bush 43 was much loved by our { his } troops.While Bill
Clinton was not.Same with Barry { Obama }. Because Barry was never even a cub scout.
Bush 43 trained in the Texas National Guard to be a fighter jet pilot.Not an easy task.
Many hours and discipline is required.
Now Donald Trump did go the Military School so he knew about how to drill and wear
the uniform.Again ... Barry and Slick Willy were busy basically goof'n off.Groping women
or trying to be the next Saul Alinsky.
BTW ... where and what does the name " bone spurs " have to do with anything.?
Or do you find it cutesy.
 
Born Free said:
I know you don't like the facts.

You're covering for your guy Obamafail. You don't have to answer, Obamafail did absolutely nothing for the Vets, he let them stand in line waiting for medical care and they died while waiting under Obamafail. Obamafail was a coward.

Your boring me. :yawn:
Click to expand...

Plus even after it went Public that the VA was running TWO sets of books.One legit
and one to make for why Vets weren't receiving Urgent Care and died while waiting.
When it went public,Obama,as usual tried to ignore like he did with - Fast & Furious -.
But guys like John McCain started raising holy hell since a V.A. facility in Phoenix
was caught Lying,deceiving and using 2 sets of books.V.A. facilities had thousands of
vet records gone missing.And others marked " No Action necessary".

Obama was informed right after the 2008 election of problems plaguing the V.A.
He pledged as candidate to handle the V.A. problems.He did nothing.Threw some money
at the V.A. and shrugged his shoulders.It was definitely not a priority.Because Obama was
not interested in Vets or our Military.His interest lie in Unions like SEIU and making sure
he was named the United States Car Czar.Then his Stimulus bill.
 
Born Free said:
I know you don't like the facts.

You're covering for your guy Obamafail. You don't have to answer, Obamafail did absolutely nothing for the Vets, he let them stand in line waiting for medical care and they died while waiting under Obamafail. Obamafail was a coward.

Your boring me. :yawn:
Click to expand...

I covered the Phoenix scandal about four times in a row during the time it was happening in 2014.
A brief redux:

If you'd like to understand the difference between "discretionary" and "non-discretionary" funding and why it affects the VA the way it does, I would be more than happy to explain it for you.
If you are a veteran, particularly a disabled veteran, it is important that you understand this issue.


Phoenix experienced a quadruple increase in the number of incoming disabled veterans during the 2008 financial crisis. Cheap cost of living and cheap housing attracted a lot of old and very ill disabled vets, and Phoenix got swamped.
That doesn't excuse the tactics that they took in response but it explains WHY they suddenly had sick people stacked like cord wood in the halls. Phoenix went on two occasions to ask for expansion money and were turned down.

Other VA's also experienced an increase due to migration but Phoenix was the worst case.
On May 30, 2014, President Obama announced that he had accepted Eric Shinseki's resignation as SecVA.
As for your assertion that Obama did nothing, false. On August 14, 2014 he signed the Veterans' Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014.

  1. The bill costs nearly $2 billion. Approximately $500 million would be used for hiring more doctors and nurses to work for the VA.
  2. Veterans who live over 40 miles away from the nearest VA health clinic or who are unable to get an appointment in a reasonable time frame would be able to receive "choice cards" allowing them to seek treatment from a non-VA facility. This would be a pilot program lasting for two years.
    (It is now permanent under Trump's recent law that expands the program)
  3. Veterans would be allowed to go to other providers that accept Medicare, the military's health program TRICARE, or at facilities run by the United States Department of Defense.
  4. The Secretary of Veterans Affairs would have increased power to fire senior executives. The executives could be removed immediately from the payroll and would only have a week to appeal being fired. Three weeks later, a merit board would make a final decision in that person's case.
  5. The bill would authorize the VA to build 26 new facilities.
  6. The bill would require public colleges and universities to grant veterans in-state tuition.
  7. The bill would improve the medical care that victims of military sexual assault receive.

It might be interesting to note that most private health care providers ALSO cannot meet a "fourteen day target" either.
Trump's solution to the VA issues is to engage advocates of privatization. Indeed, the ONLY veterans organization that has his ear is "Concerned Veterans for America", an outfit funded by the Koch Brothers that steadfastly advocates for abolishing the VA system and moving veterans into private sector health care.

CVfA is alone in this effort, as all of the other veterans organizations oppose their platform.
Expanding choice for veterans in areas underserved by the VA is a wise move, and I support Trump's signing of the recent Veterans Choice law that allows veterans to pick VA funded private options when necessary, but wholesale privatization would be a disaster, because private sector medical cannot meet the needs of disabled veterans who have problems which are not profitable to treat, and private sector medical is less focused on treatment and more focused on symptom management.

The VA is an acknowledged global leader in many areas, including prosthetics, disabled patient mobility, cardiac, diabetes, kidney, blind and partially sighted, handicap accessibility, disabled sports medicine, cancer treatment and reconstructive surgery.

ARE you a veteran? ARE you a disabled veteran?
 
foolardi said:
Plus even after it went Public that the VA was running TWO sets of books.One legit
and one to make for why Vets weren't receiving Urgent Care and died while waiting.
When it went public,Obama,as usual tried to ignore like he did with - Fast & Furious -.
But guys like John McCain started raising holy hell since a V.A. facility in Phoenix
was caught Lying,deceiving and using 2 sets of books.
Click to expand...

Since you decided to bring up Arizona Senator John McCain, I have a question for you:

Why didn't John McCain spot the scandal in Phoenix early?

The crisis with the VA hospitals came to light because of problems in Phoenix -- McCain's home city.
So is it fair to ask: Where was John McCain when these problems were developing?
Click to expand...
 
foolardi said:
It's roundly understood that Bush 43 was much loved by our { his } troops.While Bill
Clinton was not.Same with Barry { Obama }. Because Barry was never even a cub scout.
Bush 43 trained in the Texas National Guard to be a fighter jet pilot.Not an easy task.
Many hours and discipline is required.
Now Donald Trump did go the Military School so he knew about how to drill and wear
the uniform.Again ... Barry and Slick Willy were busy basically goof'n off.Groping women
or trying to be the next Saul Alinsky.
BTW ... where and what does the name " bone spurs " have to do with anything.?
Or do you find it cutesy.
Click to expand...

Yes of course, Bush risked his life protecting the State of Texas from air invaders from the State of Oklahoma!
Invoking sexual improprieties while pimping the "Grab em by the *****" prezzy, however, is a laugh riot. :lamo

Particularly when you can't point to a single sexual incident involving Obama.
And since you brought up Saul Alinsky, can you tell me why Dick Armey of FreedomWorks made studying Rules for Radicals required reading?

There's nothing wrong with that idea, Alinsky's ideas work when it's time for a smaller group to take power from a larger group.
Trouble is, once you're in power, the smart thing is to put Alinsky's book DOWN and actually start LEADING and solving problems. As evidenced by your scatterbrained scattershot propaganda word salad blitz, you and yours are still reading Alinsky.

Again, his book is a primer on TAKING power, but it's not a book that addresses what to do when you ARE in power.
You guys own ALL three big prizes, the House, the Senate and the White House.
Oops, I guess you don't own the House anymore, but you had your chance.

Maybe it's time you put down that radical Left wing textbook and started thinking about leadership.
 
Born Free said:
Maybe you've seen a post of mine that John McCain was a Senator for a few decades and not once did he do a damn thing for the Vets or the VA. Not until Trump came along did changes to the VA happened.
Click to expand...

Maybe you've seen my post where I disagreed and proved you wrong. :)
 
Born Free said:
Maybe you've seen a post of mine that John McCain was a Senator for a few decades and not once did he do a damn thing for the Vets or the VA. Not until Trump came along did changes to the VA happened.
Click to expand...

I already cited the Veterans' Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014.
That's a FACT.

Seeing as how you're choosing to ignore it, I figure you're not serious about discussing this, and it's all just a game for you.
I suspect that's what it is, but for some of us, who have family members who ARE disabled veterans, it is not a game.

So, unless you want to stop ignoring facts, and unless you want to answer as to whether or not you're a veteran, I am going to assume my suspicions are correct.

KarenVAfirstDay.jpg

KarenSAILOR.jpg
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I covered the Phoenix scandal about four times in a row during the time it was happening in 2014.
A brief redux:

If you'd like to understand the difference between "discretionary" and "non-discretionary" funding and why it affects the VA the way it does, I would be more than happy to explain it for you.
If you are a veteran, particularly a disabled veteran, it is important that you understand this issue.


Phoenix experienced a quadruple increase in the number of incoming disabled veterans during the 2008 financial crisis. Cheap cost of living and cheap housing attracted a lot of old and very ill disabled vets, and Phoenix got swamped.
That doesn't excuse the tactics that they took in response but it explains WHY they suddenly had sick people stacked like cord wood in the halls. Phoenix went on two occasions to ask for expansion money and were turned down.

Other VA's also experienced an increase due to migration but Phoenix was the worst case.
On May 30, 2014, President Obama announced that he had accepted Eric Shinseki's resignation as SecVA.
As for your assertion that Obama did nothing, false. On August 14, 2014 he signed the Veterans' Access to Care through Choice, Accountability, and Transparency Act of 2014.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veter..._Accountability,_and_Transparency_Act_of_2014

  1. The bill costs nearly $2 billion. Approximately $500 million would be used for hiring more doctors and nurses to work for the VA.
  2. Veterans who live over 40 miles away from the nearest VA health clinic or who are unable to get an appointment in a reasonable time frame would be able to receive "choice cards" allowing them to seek treatment from a non-VA facility. This would be a pilot program lasting for two years.
    (It is now permanent under Trump's recent law that expands the program)
  3. Veterans would be allowed to go to other providers that accept Medicare, the military's health program TRICARE, or at facilities run by the United States Department of Defense.
  4. The Secretary of Veterans Affairs would have increased power to fire senior executives. The executives could be removed immediately from the payroll and would only have a week to appeal being fired. Three weeks later, a merit board would make a final decision in that person's case.
  5. The bill would authorize the VA to build 26 new facilities.
  6. The bill would require public colleges and universities to grant veterans in-state tuition.
  7. The bill would improve the medical care that victims of military sexual assault receive.

It might be interesting to note that most private health care providers ALSO cannot meet a "fourteen day target" either.
Trump's solution to the VA issues is to engage advocates of privatization. Indeed, the ONLY veterans organization that has his ear is "Concerned Veterans for America", an outfit funded by the Koch Brothers that steadfastly advocates for abolishing the VA system and moving veterans into private sector health care.

CVfA is alone in this effort, as all of the other veterans organizations oppose their platform.
Expanding choice for veterans in areas underserved by the VA is a wise move, and I support Trump's signing of the recent Veterans Choice law that allows veterans to pick VA funded private options when necessary, but wholesale privatization would be a disaster, because private sector medical cannot meet the needs of disabled veterans who have problems which are not profitable to treat, and private sector medical is less focused on treatment and more focused on symptom management.

The VA is an acknowledged global leader in many areas, including prosthetics, disabled patient mobility, cardiac, diabetes, kidney, blind and partially sighted, handicap accessibility, disabled sports medicine, cancer treatment and reconstructive surgery.

ARE you a veteran? ARE you a disabled veteran?
Click to expand...

FYI

Signing a bill and enforcing it are two different animals. I stand by my comment Obamafail did nothing to improve the VA. Obamafail was voted in in 2009 and the VA was out of control from the day he was elected. The huge firestorm took place in 2014 but everyone knew the VA was a disaster with Vets dying waiting for treatment.

An update

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/3/va-still-plagued-by-problems-two-years-after-scand/
 
Born Free said:
FYI

Signing a bill and enforcing it are two different animals. I stand by my comment Obamafail did nothing to improve the VA. Obamafail was voted in in 2009 and the VA was out of control from the day he was elected. The huge firestorm took place in 2014 but everyone knew the VA was a disaster with Vets dying waiting for treatment.

An update

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/3/va-still-plagued-by-problems-two-years-after-scand/
Click to expand...

Sorry but Concerned Veterans for America "aren't concerned", they are "concern trolls" and their platform is opposed by the IAVA, VoteVets, the DAV, the PVA, the American Legion and every other veterans service organization on the planet.

I already outlined what the 2014 act covers, you choose to ignore it.
Stump for the Koch Brothers all you want, but unless you're in the system, you don't know what you're talking about.
Based on your refusal to answer that question, I assume you're not a veteran.

Thanks for playing.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Sorry but Concerned Veterans for America "aren't concerned", they are "concern trolls" and their platform is opposed by the IAVA, VoteVets, the DAV, the PVA, the American Legion and every other veterans service organization on the planet.

I already outlined what the 2014 act covers, you choose to ignore it.
Stump for the Koch Brothers all you want, but unless you're in the system, you don't know what you're talking about.
Based on your refusal to answer that question, I assume you're not a veteran.

Thanks for playing.
Click to expand...

I get you outlined what the 2014 act covers, now prove to me it was enforced, because no problems were solved.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/3/va-still-plagued-by-problems-two-years-after-scand/
 
Veterans Sustain Two Serious Defeats From Trump And The House To VA Health Care

6/8/18

Veterans face two separate challenges to the VA that have come to a boil this week – one from Trump, one from the Republican House. One concerns Trump and the makeup of a commission focused on closing VA facilities. The other concerns transferring funding of veterans’ healthcare from VA facilities to private entities. On Wednesday, Trump signed a law with a provision to establish a commission charged with conducting a nationwide “asset review” of VA infrastructure. If the commission is stacked with advocates of dismantling the VA and privatizing most care, the results could be disastrous. Congress remembers the great power of the base-closing commissions in shutting down military facilities, but at least they were able to vote the recommendations up or down. Not so with this commission; it will be empowered to make final decisions. There are likely to be regional winners and losers, and some decisions may be made to accommodate real estate developers, not veterans. The make-up of the commission had been a sticking point with veterans groups and lawmakers concerned about the facilities-closing review. The second challenge came in a House appropriation bill. The House voted on Thursday to approve the rule for floor debate of an appropriation (the Military Construction – VA bill) to be adopted Friday.
Click to expand...

Creating a vicious circle of under-funding VA and using the resulting problems and shortfalls as a rationale for privatization is the goal of the Trump administration and it mirrors similar past efforts by the Right to hobble public schools, the Post Office and the Department of Transportation.

Using "discretionary funding" to pay for actual veterans health care while keeping budgets for VA facility remodeling and construction as NON-discretionary is the tool by which Republicans manage to continue lucrative jobs programs for their constituents while starving the actual agency when they need more doctors, nurses, lab techs, surgical techs and facilities staff.
 
The VA has been underfunded and mis-funded during its entire existence and I am going to try to precisely illustrate HOW, because the mis-funding might actually do more damage than the underfunding.

But first let's talk about the underfunding anyway, just to get it out of the way.
Long Beach VA used to be one of the worst in the country back in the Vietnam War era.
Ron Kovic described the conditions in his book "Born on the Fourth of July", which also became a film starring Tom Cruise.
After the film came out, people started paying more attention and the Long Beach VA, stung from its portrayal, made efforts to up its game.
Today it is considered one of the better/best VA facilities, with either 3.5 or four stars right now.
Much of the old VA that Ron Kovic was stuck in has been completely torn down.

Now let's talk about the MIS-funding...
My wife is a patient at the SCI (Spinal Cord Injury unit) which is a hospital within a hospital.
They just hired a new SCI staff neurologist about eight months ago, and a neurologist is a pretty important position inside of an SCI unit.
Long Beach had to make do however, WITHOUT an SCI staff neurologist for TWO YEARS, because Congress said there wasn't enough funds to HIRE one.
Guess what they DID have funds for? A brand new outdoor walkway, a remodeled atrium, new artwork on the wall, new tile, a grand piano in the auditorium, and a completely remodeled front entrance and foyer for the main building (Bldg. 126) Total cost for all of this is estimated at or near seven million dollars.

How is this possible?
In 1994 the Gingrich Congress made several rule changes in how some things are funded, including the VA.
The VA physical plant budget is NON-discretionary spending, meaning if the VA spends all the money it needs for building maintenance, remodeling etc in a given year, it is guaranteed to get that same amount or even more the next year.
The VA Health Care budget, which pays for doctor salaries, medicines, pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, lab techs, nurses, orderlies, physical therapists, research, and anything else directly related to patient care, is DISCRETIONARY SPENDING, which means that every single year, someone in Congress can, on a whim, make cuts here, make cuts there, make cuts wherever they wish at their discretion.

From where I sit, as the husband of a 100% service connected disabled Navy veteran, this looks like an INTENTIONAL effort to CRIPPLE a government program in order to create a justification for attacking it. No one in their right mind would be ordering expensive remodeling projects while they can't find the money for a staff neurologist in a spinal cord injury unit unless it was with malice aforethought.

So if you want to walk around believing that the VA is just a bunch of incompetents who don't care about their veterans, go ahead.
But YOU'RE WRONG.

The VA functions as good as it does DESPITE the best efforts of some in Congress to try to kill it.
 
And so here we are, folks, another sunny day at Debate Politics, where Right wingers like Born Free are all about issuing fatwahs calling for the termination of treatment and benefits for all disabled veterans and the transformation of the government funded VA system to a bare voucher program, where disabled vets get to attempt to get outside doctors and hospitals to figure out how to treat a wide variety of health problems unique to their group, with a limited amount of funding, denial of care and rationing of benefits, while the private system winds up costing the taxpayers even MORE money than the VA did.

But it doesn't even matter, because the folks on the Right don't have any intention of discussing the issue in detail, or in exploring compromise, or even arriving at a consensus. Born Free can't even admit that he's not even a veteran.
 
So again, Born Free you are only in this thread because you wanted to hear an echo chamber agreeing with you.
Sorry but I guess I must be a terrible inconvenience to you.


Here's another thing that the VA does better than anyone else, they show veterans how to get their LIFE BACK after injury.
My wife is the cute skinny brunette in the racing wheelchair going around the track and being interviewed at the finish line by local TV and radio.


Other members of the Dallas VA Wheelchair Team are there in the video, too.


View attachment 67232664


https://vimeo.com/89471906

This is all just a game to you, so you'll pardon me if I don't take anything you write seriously.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Since you decided to bring up Arizona Senator John McCain, I have a question for you:

Why didn't John McCain spot the scandal in Phoenix early?

Click to expand...

basically John McCain was an overrated Pol.More like a pesky Doofus.
McCain seemed more interested in making sure he got noticed.Like he did
while at Annapolis.He was a Ham.His Loyalities seemed to be almost non-existent
besides Mrs.John McCain { otherwise known as Lindsay Graham }.
McCain was true RINO.I really never liked him.Nor his obvious attempts to seem
manly and also comic.He particularly appeared small to me.Like he had something to
prove.Kinda like a young Mickey Rooney.
I need to have explained to me why the guy Rated a State Funeral.
I have a theory.It means why his body was never viewed { Closed casket }.
He never died.He faked it.In an attempt to embarrass President Trump and
take an entire news cycle away from Trump.
I mean,how easy would it be for McCain to Pretend he died and have some
family doctor or medial man swear by his Death.McCain could easily go into
seclusion and pass at his own choosing.While watching and enjoying all the
harassment of President Trump.
The reason I say this is on account very few Individuals live over a year with the kind
of brain tumor he had.I don't think he had a brain tumor.When word got out that McCain
was still living after a year,he started plotting for his Death.
Jerome Corsi was asking why McCains health was not being mentioned back last
summer.That he was starting to Doubt McCain HAD brain cancer.
I'm of that camp.I don't believe what this MSM reports.Or in coincidence.
 
foolardi said:
Jerome Corsi was asking why McCains health was not being mentioned back last
summer.That he was starting to Doubt McCain HAD brain cancer.
I'm of that camp.I don't believe what this MSM reports.Or in coincidence.
Click to expand...

Ummm, yes you are "of that camp" (backs away slowly) and yes, you should take steps to secure your safety and security.

:lamo :lamo :lamo

memefacescared2-panel-NOPE.jpg
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Ummm, yes you are "of that camp" (backs away slowly) and yes, you should take steps to secure your safety and security.

:lamo :lamo :lamo

View attachment 67245230
Click to expand...

McCain was Not loved and adored by our Military.That is as much hype and
bluster as John Kerry saluting { Reporting for Duty } in 2006 as he entered the stage
at the Democrat DNC Convention.And with nutty guys like Max Cleland swearing almost
violently on Kerry's Integrity.Swiftboat Veterans For Truth - knew the Real John Kerry.
Many Military vets went along with McCain solely based on his Hanoi Hilton POW years.
But that drew-down as the years passed and the real John McCain surfaced.
The Hot Dog showoff and GOP turncoat.
 
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