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[W:120]Is it systemic sexism when men serve more time than women for the same crimes?

dex4974

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I tend to think so.



 

Felis Leo

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I tend to think so.




Yes. I think we, as a society, tend to be conditioned to be a bit more sympathetic to women who commit crimes. For example, when I hear news that a man has killed his wife, I generally assume that it is more likely than not (before having seen the evidence) that he was an abuser who kept going down the road of increasing acts of violence towards the inevitable outcome that would lead to the grim final act of him taking the life of his spouse. When I hear news that a woman has killed her husband, I generally assume (again, before having seen the evidence) that more likely than not the woman must have been driven to it in an act of desperation.

Is it sexist to make these assumptions? Probably. But I find my presumptions often map to reality.
 

Court Jester

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If my daddy hadn't systemic sexisimed my momma, I wouldn't be here
 

dex4974

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Yes. I think we, as a society, tend to be conditioned to be a bit more sympathetic to women who commit crimes. When I hear news that a man has killed his wife, I generally assume that it is more likely than not (before having seen the evidence) that he was an abuser who kept going down the road of increasing acts of violence towards the inevitable outcome that would lead to the grim final act of him taking the life of his spouse. When I hear news that a woman has killed her husband, I generally assume (again, before having seen the evidence) that more likely than not the woman must have been driven to it in an act of desperation.

Wow.

Thank you for that impressive honesty about your own bias.
 

dex4974

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The silence is deafening.
 

roguenuke

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How would you propose to lessen that difference?

Not allowing judges to take into account various factors, leaving them no leeway in punishment harms society. Zero tolerance and mandatory sentencing laws have been shown to be harmful.




Without minimum sentencing laws (zero tolerance, imo, is a school version of those laws), judges decide based on many factors, including personal viewpoints and bias, what sentence a person gets when convicted (in most cases, there are some exceptions). This allows for more fair justice to happen.

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dex4974

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How would you propose to lessen that difference?

I don't know what the solution is. First it needs to be established that men are in fact dealing with systemic sexism too so a conversation can actually happen.
 

roguenuke

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I don't know what the solution is. First it needs to be established that men are in fact dealing with systemic sexism too so a conversation can actually happen.
If you propose a problem, its generally good to have a solution, even if one that can be worked on.

Right now, it appears more like you are simply looking for validation. I have the same issue with claims of systemic racism. Racism does exist and there are even laws/policies that exist now or existed in the past still resonating now that cause disparities in how different races are treated.

On an individual level, you have to know the circumstances though. We can't take care of the sexism you describe as happening without seeing each individual case and point to things like reasoning that is unfair and can cause such disparity. Statistics do not provide those things.

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dex4974

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If you propose a problem, its generally good to have a solution, even if one that can be worked on.

Solutions come after establishing that a problem does indeed exist. I don't need a solution handy to discuss something that's a problem.
 

Casper

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Solutions come after establishing that a problem does indeed exist. I don't need a solution handy to discuss something that's a problem.
Does it? Which group commits more crime, which group tends to be repeat offenders, which group tend commit the majority of violent crimes? Clue it isn't women. I am sure there are a handful of cases where a woman obviously got preferential treatment but I doubt it is the norm.
 

roguenuke

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Solutions come after establishing that a problem does indeed exist. I don't need a solution handy to discuss something that's a problem.
And we have learned this isnt a good way to operate.

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dex4974

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Does it? Which group commits more crime, which group tends to be repeat offenders, which group tend commit the majority of violent crimes? Clue it isn't women. I am sure there are a handful of cases where a woman obviously got preferential treatment but I doubt it is the norm.

You didn't read the links.
 

roguenuke

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Have you never worked for a boss who insists that if you bring something to him/her, you should also have a solution to work with? Or simply heard that? I have. Those tend to be the best people, in my experience, to work for/with, so long as they ensure everyone is held to that expectation and don't expect a perfect solution, allow for input from others.


This doesnt mean your solution has to work, but you arent even really presenting a problem here. You are presenting a belief about a situation, saying "this is a problem".

What makes this a problem? Are women who get lighter sentences more likely to perform crimes when released? Are they a burden on society due to their lighter sentences? Are you looking to get sentences for women increased (why?) or sentences for men decreased (why?)? What is the overall affect on society from thus disparity?

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dex4974

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Have you never worked for a boss who insists that if you bring something to him/her, you should also have a solution to work with?

I personally do not know the best way to approach this issue. That doesn't mean the issue shouldn't be brought up for discussion. If I was your boss I would rather you tell me about a problem and not have a solution than have you not bring it up at all.
 

roguenuke

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I personally do not know the best way to approach this issue. That doesn't mean the issue shouldn't be brought up for discussion. If I was your boss I would rather you tell me about a problem and not have a solution than have you not bring it up at all.
You are providing a complaint, not a problem. And you are not providing even ideas for solutions. That us not at all a positive way to manage or lead. It breeds petty complaining and unfair reliance on others to provide solutions to actual problems and those petty complaints.

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dex4974

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You are providing a complaint, not a problem. And you are not providing even ideas for solutions. That us not at all a positive way to manage or lead. It breeds petty complaining and unfair reliance on others to provide solutions to actual problems and those petty complaints.

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Okay.
 

goldkam

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I don't know what the solution is. First it needs to be established that men are in fact dealing with systemic sexism too so a conversation can actually happen.

You wouldn't agree that systemic sexism is disproportionately towards women?
 

dex4974

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Don't reply to me if you are going to cut off the point my post. Thanks

You didn't even read the links this thread was built on. You're not interested in learning anything.
 
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