[W:119]Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

[Cephus]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

It would be cutting into radio, television and Internet markets. I won't deny that. Still I believe that it would be an idea worthy of consideration.

When I am outside the US I can't say that I watch much television. Hell, I don't watch that much in the US. It appears to me, however, that no nation on earth advertises pharmaceuticals like the US. Some television programs would not exist were it not for pharma ads.

Marketing pharmaceuticals in the US a huge business, though all said and done it probably is more harmful than not. Big pharma creates maladies and pimps pills and potions to make it all better. Big pharma is out of control and they are making a killing.

Cigarettes haven't been advertised on television for decades but television survived the ban of cigarette advertising. There are many products that can't be advertised on TV or are severely restricted in terms of content. Truth is Big Pharma, marketing and ad agencies and television and radio would and perhaps already do lobby the **** out of any meaningful and responsible change in the marketing of legal drugs in America.

Again, why? Why should pharma be restricted and, say, car manufacturers not? Lots of people like to pretend that big pharma is out of control without understanding the limitations they are under and the costs they have to pay out to develop new drugs. Just because people don't like what drugs cost doesn't change the fact that they cost that much.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Again, why? Why should pharma be restricted and, say, car manufacturers not? Lots of people like to pretend that big pharma is out of control without understanding the limitations they are under and the costs they have to pay out to develop new drugs. Just because people don't like what drugs cost doesn't change the fact that they cost that much.

Fair enough. I’m not pretending, Big Pharma IS out of control.

Why can’t whiskey or gin or vodka be consumed in tv ads? Why don’t you see many liquor ads? When is the last time you saw a condom ad on television? Ads for cigarettes? Personal female vibrators? Restrictions.

Why is is it that Americans pay more for pharmaceuticals than any other nation? Why is it so much cheaper to buy them in Mexico or Canada?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

So...you support recreational drug legalization, and a slew of other liberties that the Conservative bloc oppose, right?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Fair enough. I’m not pretending, Big Pharma IS out of control.

Why can’t whiskey or gin or vodka be consumed in tv ads? Why don’t you see many liquor ads? When is the last time you saw a condom ad on television? Ads for cigarettes? Personal female vibrators? Restrictions.

Why is is it that Americans pay more for pharmaceuticals than any other nation? Why is it so much cheaper to buy them in Mexico or Canada?

With Mexico its because most of the drugs are probably fake. Canada does not have that problem, so I agree with your point.

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Pelosi and most of the democrats in the House.

Citation. Or am I to take your word for it?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

With Mexico its because most of the drugs are probably fake. Canada does not have that problem, so I agree with your point.

This is a fallacy. Mexico simply has very lax drug laws compared to many other countries. Many Rx drugs are OTC in Mexico. They're not fakes. If a drug store in Mexico were found to be selling imposters they would lose business so fast they wouldn't last a month. Too much competition out there to be ripping off the peasants.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

This is a fallacy. Mexico simply has very lax drug laws compared to many other countries. Many Rx drugs are OTC in Mexico. They're not fakes. If a drug store in Mexico were found to be selling imposters they would lose business so fast they wouldn't last a month. Too much competition out there to be ripping off the peasants.

I bet that you have never been in a store in Mexico and checked out their merchandise? I do not know about you but, I live 50 miles from the border. We are not talking about pharmacies like in the US. We are talking about little stores that sell anything from drugs to dresses, they are shady as ****. Shady as **** store sin Mexico do not give one **** about losing business, this is not a regular store.

But dont believe me...

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/resourcesforyou/consumers/ucm143561.htm
https://www.thepharmaletter.com/article/us-fda-warning-over-counterfeit-drugs-bought-in-mexico

https://www.courthousenews.com/los-angeles-cracks-down-on-counterfeit-drugs/

https://globalnews.ca/news/3257918/mexican-authorities-find-vials-of-fake-anti-cancer-drug/

https://www.wltx.com/article/news/d...nd-deadly-fake-drugs-in-georgia/101-448173607

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/publications/issue/2017/may2017/counterfeit-medications

BTW no fallacy just facts, perhaps you should have googled before accusing me of a fallacy while espousing nothing but your opinions?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

I bet that you have never been in a store in Mexico and checked out their merchandise?
BTW no fallacy just facts, perhaps you should have googled before accusing me of a fallacy while espousing nothing but your opinions?

I've been to Mexico. I've seen the drugs. In fact, I've seen my drugs sold OTC in Mexico. You see, I was a pharmaceutical sales rep. I also saw my competitor's drugs sold right alongside mine. I can assure you they were not fakes.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

I've been to Mexico. I've seen the drugs. In fact, I've seen my drugs sold OTC in Mexico. You see, I was a pharmaceutical sales rep. I also saw my competitor's drugs sold right alongside mine. I can assure you they were not fakes.

Lets be real, your observations could not prove that what you were seeing was not fake. Even pharmacists in the US make the mistake of of selling tainted drug, they cannot know anything without doing laboratory analysis. And well you are only a salesmen dude not some expert.

Why dont you try some of those links that I gave you? here is a quote from one: "My first introduction to the world of counterfeit prescription drugs was approximately 2 decades ago, when someone who worked for Pfizer showed me 2 identical-looking Viagra tablets on screen at a drug-training course. The packaging also looked identical. The point was that the difference in the tablets was undetectable without laboratory analysis." It pretty much shows that you do not know what you are talking about, dude.

And well being a "pharmaceutical sales rep" is a bit of a biased position. Hell you are part of the problem.

 

[Sweden]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

A certain character type, over burdened with self righteousness, seek to control the life's of others. Possessors of this trait once sought (and still do in some places) used religion to exert control. The 'liberals', better described as leftists, have often left religion behind and now seek government, at all levels, as a vehicle for domination. It's all - or most of it - in their genes.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

And well you are only a salesmen dude not some expert.

It pretty much shows that you do not know what you are talking about, dude.

And well being a "pharmaceutical sales rep" is a bit of a biased position. Hell you are part of the problem.

Thank you, dude for an enlightening conversation. It would have been so much nicer if you have chosen to be civil and not insulting. I'm afraid I have to inform you that I do not willingly engage in conversations with rude people. Have a nice life.

 

[bluesmoke]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Trolling, trolling,

Over the bounding main,

For many a stormy post shall blow

As the troll posts once again!

 

[grainbelt]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

I dont support all that but heres what I do understand to be true. The purpose of business is simply to be profitable, obey the law, and respect relevant moral minimums. That's it. It's the place of regulatory bodies to decide what those laws should be so that all stakeholders are considered and represented. Markets actually need regulatory frameworks to be stable and sustainable without being too destructive to our society. Our advanced republic needs this. Unbridled capitalism would have untold number of nasty impacts on Americans. Even with some regulation the news of abuses by businesses that hurt and exploit people are stomach turning. We shouldn't expect businesses to be concerned with all aspects of american and human life when making decisions. Just follow the laws that pertain to them.

I'm less into personal restrictions. I think that should be more common sense based. People are going to do weird **** and some are absolutely batty mental and belong in prison or asylums. If they arent hurting anyone, though, I am not concerned. However, if there are trending activities that are hurting others or our resources or safety then it's the duty of regulatory bodies to identify that and suggest sensible diversion.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[jnug]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Our drug problem is OUR problem. Its our problem because the US drug problem is a demand problem, not a supply problem. You want to solve the drug problem, deal with the demand in the US and the issues that drive demand for which we mainly pay not more than lip service.

Its a little like how we "deal" or don't deal with our unauthorized immigrant employment problem. We don't really do more than pay lip service to it either. We will rail about it for awhile as if that does anything and then turn our backs on it as soon as we can.

 

[Evilroddy]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

I'm not a modern liberal/progressive but I'll have a go.

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives?

Imagine you're in a room which is becoming more and more crowded each day. You love gymnastics and break dancing but you are finding it harder to do due to the growing number of people in the room. You keep bumping into people and occasionally hurt some folk while tumbling and flipping. Since you can't leave the room to do your gymnastics and break dancing and you won't give these activities up other people whose right to health and safety band together and create laws and policies to limit your right to tumble, flip and break dance.

For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom.

America is no longer a vast wilderness with low population density. More and more Americans are crowded together in cities and towns. That crowding causes the rights of some Americans to "bump" into and clash with the rights of other Americans. The result is some rights have to be down-graded to freedoms which are not inalienable or privileges which are granted but which can also be taken away by society if they are problematic. This is not a function of liberalism but is rather a function of a more populace, a more dense/crowded and a more organised/regimented society. Gradually the notion of collective rights encroaches on individual rights as a society matures and grows in population density. It sucks if you cherish individual liberties and inalienable rights but that's social evolution for you, baby. Societies progressively cage individuals as they become more complex and as population density increases.

What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people?

I think you are confusing statists with liberals. Statism drives people from all over the political spectrum to try to control the members of a society in order that the state becomes more efficient and powerful. This process is on-going in both left-leaning, right-leaning and centrist societies and again is not a function of liberalism. Liberals value rights and freedoms but statists do not, preferring collective rights and societal efficiency.

Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

In engineering there is a concept of built-in tolerances in a machine. The more finely tuned (and presumably the more efficient) a machine in, the finer the tolerances in the machine and the less the wiggle room for pieces which don't quite fit. The same is true for societies where statism is powerful. The tolerances of the society for individual peculiarities and for noncooperation or dissent against the state's societal projects reduces and people become less free. This is not a function of liberalism but is rather a function of efficiency in the service of power and social organisation.

So liberals are not the problem. Population density, clashing rights, the desire for better social organisation, efficiency, statism and lower tolerances in a more complicated society are the culprits reducing the number and scope of your rights.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[markjs]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

I'm not a modern liberal/progressive but I'll have a go.



Imagine you're in a room which is becoming more and more crowded each day. You love gymnastics and break dancing but you are finding it harder to do due to the growing number of people in the room. You keep bumping into people and occasionally hurt some folk while tumbling and flipping. Since you can't leave the room to do your gymnastics and break dancing and you won't give these activities up other people whose right to health and safety band together and create laws and policies to limit your right to tumble, flip and break dance.



America is no longer a vast wilderness with low population density. More and more Americans are crowded together in cities and towns. That crowding causes the rights of some Americans to "bump" into and clash with the rights of other Americans. The result is some rights have to be down-graded to freedoms which are not inalienable or privileges which are granted but which can also be taken away by society if they are problematic. This is not a function of liberalism but is rather a function of a more populace, a more dense/crowded and a more organised/regimented society. Gradually the notion of collective rights encroaches on individual rights as a society matures and grows in population density. It sucks if you cherish individual liberties and inalienable rights but that's social evolution for you, baby. Societies progressively cage individuals as they become more complex and as population density increases.



I think you are confusing statists with liberals. Statism drives people from all over the political spectrum to try to control the members of a society in order that the state becomes more efficient and powerful. This process is on-going in both left-leaning, right-leaning and centrist societies and again is not a function of liberalism. Liberals value rights and freedoms but statists do not, preferring collective rights and societal efficiency.



In engineering there is a concept of built-in tolerances in a machine. The more finely tuned (and presumably the more efficient) a machine in, the finer the tolerances in the machine and the less the wiggle room for pieces which don't quite fit. The same is true for societies where statism is powerful. The tolerances of the society for individual peculiarities and for noncooperation or dissent against the state's societal projects reduces and people become less free. This is not a function of liberalism but is rather a function of efficiency in the service of power and social organisation.

So liberals are not the problem. Population density, clashing rights, the desire for better social organisation, efficiency, statism and lower tolerances in a more complicated society are the culprits reducing the number and scope of your rights.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

But he didn't want that! He wanted you to buy the picture he paints of what ALL libruls believe and tell him how smart he is for knowing that!:roll: This is about how he FEELS about things, not the facts!

 

[Logical1]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Still waiting for a reasoned logical post on why huge costly overbearing government is good.

 

[markjs]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Still waiting for a reasoned logical post on why huge costly overbearing government is good.

When you allege fantasy beliefs that literally nobody ahas and have a tantrum over it, well how do you expect anyone to react to your trolling?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Still waiting for a reasoned logical post on why huge costly overbearing government is good.

You ask the question as if it is the goal.

It is not the goal, but it is a consequence. When legislators address the concerns of their constituencies, they pass laws that impinge on someone's freedom. Enforcing the law can be expensive, but the alternative it to tell their constituencies there is nothing that can be done.

Government puts up traffic lights to control traffic and it impinges on the freedoms of drivers. It also can be expensive to enforce the laws behind those traffic lights. It has been determined that even though traffic lights restrict freedoms, and they are expensive, they are worth the outcomes for most citizens. It is essentially the same with any other law on the books.

Do you argue against traffic lights?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

Perhaps you should ask all those religious conservatives who throw a tantrum over which bathroom people use.

Either that or read a history book and look at all the unconstitutional tyranny that occurred when state governments-- especially in the South--- were left unchecked.

 

[Grokmaster]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

 

[brothern]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Still waiting for a reasoned logical post on why huge costly overbearing government is good.

Politics is the process of making group decisions. Government and policy is the mechanism of how that process may be done in an orderly fashion.

If it confuses you why effective government is necessary - Go live in a major city, where you cannot escape your neighbor who has decided that 1AM is an appropriate time to mow his lawn. Or the lady who dumps garbage and raw sewage onto the vacant lot next to her property.

 

[Cordelier]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Still waiting for a reasoned logical post on why huge costly overbearing government is good.

Not for nothing, but it might help advance the debate here if you could give a concrete example of what you're talking about instead of just talking in generalities.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

Let's see, "overbearing" is one word.

Also, that reminds me - I think we should start a thread entitled, "Members who are most likely to be Russian Trolls"!

Have a nice day, comrade!

 

[OscarLevant]

Re: Could a liberal on the forum explain this to me

Why do liberals want a huge costly over bearing government that tries to control every aspect of our lives? For every rule or regulation the government comes up with people lose more freedom. What is it with the liberal psyche that makes them want to totally control the lives of other people? Why do liberals think they need to tell me what I should do or not do in minute detail????????????

Okay, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a troll, and your post is sincere....

So....

Well, at least you are not hiding how the right wing brain works.

I used to be like you, back in the 80s, once upon a time I was a libertarian/conservative, ( I voted for the libertarian candidate against Reagan, but I would have just as easily voted for Reagan, and was relieved when he won against Carter ) and held every right wing libertarian meme in my brain like you are doing now.

One day I got tired of arguing with liberals, so I thought I would go down to the library and get the hard data, which I assumed would prove conclusively that republican administrations were better for America, so I could just toss the data in front of liberals and I could say, "end of argument".

Funny thing happened, most of what I thought was true about liberals wasn't true at all. The hard data revealed that democrat administrations, on the whole, did better for America on the hard stats, than Repubs did. And I couldn't wrap my head around it, but there it was. It took me some 10 years to come over to the dem side of things, but I understand now why they are better for America. I can't explain it to you in 25 words or less, but just understand this: If you build a house on a slab made of sandstone, it won't be a solid house, and that is what being a republican is, it's a house, with tons of good looking bricks, but built on a false premise, which is why it doesn't do well for America as the thought terminating clichés you have piled up in your brain would have you believe.

This is why you'll find me often saying this:

If I believed half of what republicans say about democrats, I would still be a republican.

the truth is, your brain is, indeed, a bucket filled with right wing memes (some russian ) and thought terminating clichés.

Someone has done what I did back in the 80s, quite nicely, here;

Presidential Data 2016