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[W:10]Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

TU Curmudgeon

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From NBC News

Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

HOOVER, Ala. — Police in Alabama promised transparency Monday after a weekend of protests in response to an officer fatally shooting a black man who pulled out his legally permitted weapon following gunfire at a shopping mall.

Hoover Police initially described the officer as "heroic" for bringing down Emantic "EJ" Bradford Jr. after two people were wounded at the Riverchase Galleria mall outside Birmingham Thanksgiving night. Then they retracted the statement, saying it's "unlikely" Bradford was involved.

Bradford's father said his son was a 21-year-old Army veteran with a permit to carry a weapon. The statement police released early Monday suggested Bradford shouldn't have pulled it out.

"We can say with certainty Mr. Bradford brandished a gun during the seconds following the gunshots, which instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene," the statement from the city of Hoover and its police department says.

COMMENT:-

If you read a little further in the article, it seems that there is some ground for believing that the police made no demands and didn't call out any commands before shooting at the "armed person".

If this proves to be the case (and that can only be established once the police release the video) then it appears that the mantra "All it takes is one good man with a gun" should be revised to read "All it takes is one good man with a gun (unless he's 'Black' and then the police will shoot him as soon as they arrive)".

Would anyone like to bet that the police officer's lawyer is NOT going to come out with a statement along the lines of

"While he's heart broken over what happened, my client honestly believed that his life, and those of the people whose sworn duty it was to protect, was endangered by the person my client saw actually holding the gun when my client responded to an 'Active Shooter' call in the ordinary and everyday course of his employment and was only following established police department policies and procedures."?
 

Sam_Troy

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

The death of this minority will save money from taxpayers that would have gone to this guy's SSI and Welfare check. The police should not be blamed.
 

Maccabee

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

The death of this minority will save money from taxpayers that would have gone to this guy's SSI and Welfare check. The police should not be blamed.

Racist comment is racist.
 

Maccabee

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

From NBC News

Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

HOOVER, Ala. — Police in Alabama promised transparency Monday after a weekend of protests in response to an officer fatally shooting a black man who pulled out his legally permitted weapon following gunfire at a shopping mall.

Hoover Police initially described the officer as "heroic" for bringing down Emantic "EJ" Bradford Jr. after two people were wounded at the Riverchase Galleria mall outside Birmingham Thanksgiving night. Then they retracted the statement, saying it's "unlikely" Bradford was involved.

Bradford's father said his son was a 21-year-old Army veteran with a permit to carry a weapon. The statement police released early Monday suggested Bradford shouldn't have pulled it out.

"We can say with certainty Mr. Bradford brandished a gun during the seconds following the gunshots, which instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene," the statement from the city of Hoover and its police department says.

COMMENT:-

If you read a little further in the article, it seems that there is some ground for believing that the police made no demands and didn't call out any commands before shooting at the "armed person".

If this proves to be the case (and that can only be established once the police release the video) then it appears that the mantra "All it takes is one good man with a gun" should be revised to read "All it takes is one good man with a gun (unless he's 'Black' and then the police will shoot him as soon as they arrive)".

Would anyone like to bet that the police officer's lawyer is NOT going to come out with a statement along the lines of

"While he's heart broken over what happened, my client honestly believed that his life, and those of the people whose sworn duty it was to protect, was endangered by the person my client saw actually holding the gun when my client responded to an 'Active Shooter' call in the ordinary and everyday course of his employment and was only following established police department policies and procedures."?

This is why they teach you to keep your gun to your side or close to your chest instead of having it pointed out if you don't have a target presented to you.
 

markjs

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

Racist comment is racist.

Sometmes people confuse prejudice and racism. Predjudices do not necesarily equal racism. Racism is a belief in superiority, prejudice is a pre-judgment based on experience (whether valid or not), but yeah, I pretty much agree there. My god, how pathetic. IDK if I care to get deeper into this one, as I did not read more than just the thread thus far, and it's a topic I dislike cuz how ugly it can get, but there was no call for that crap.
 

markjs

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

The death of this minority will save money from taxpayers that would have gone to this guy's SSI and Welfare check. The police should not be blamed.

Maybe if you work a little harder at making inflamatory racist comments, you could be even more annoying when you post? From what I've seen so far, I believe in your ability on this....
 

Lursa

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

If this proves to be the case (and that can only be established once the police release the video) then it appears that the mantra "All it takes is one good man with a gun" should be revised to read "All it takes is one good man with a gun (unless he's 'Black' and then the police will shoot him as soon as they arrive)".

[/INDENT]

No armed (or unarmed) citizen is obligated to protect another. If you are assuming most would...you might be surprised. Many of us would prefer to get home to our own families, esp. when the others have the same right as we do to that protection if they choose. But even the most basic training teaches you that in such cases, your odds of not getting shot are low and what you should do when the cops arrive to protect yourself.

Not just you but this may be a common assumption by people, it seems so but I dont know.

I dont understand why other people care if a stranger attempts to save lives and fails? Isnt that their choice? Their expression of their personal liberty?

This assumption however, is ridiculous IMO:
That it would be better to be unarmed and unprotected so you don’t get shot by cops, rather than armed with a chance of protecting yourself against the shooter or other crimes. :roll:​
 
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Sam_Troy

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

I saw a series of photos of the recently deceased this weekend with many showing his fingers doing gang signs. Now I see the same photos cropped at the elbows. Nevertheless, the cops got home safe that night.
 

tres borrachos

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

Racist comment is racist.

You guys need to stop engaging him. Anyone with a David Duke avatar isn't worth your finger energy.
 

Gina

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

Moderator's Warning:
Sam_Troy is thread banned. Please do not quote and reply to his posts.

Thank you.
 

cpwill

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"We can say with certainty Mr. Bradford brandished a gun during the seconds following the gunshots, which instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene," the statement from the city of Hoover and its police department says.

COMMENT:-

If you read a little further in the article, it seems that there is some ground for believing that the police made no demands and didn't call out any commands before shooting at the "armed person".

If this proves to be the case (and that can only be established once the police release the video) then it appears that the mantra "All it takes is one good man with a gun" should be revised to read "All it takes is one good man with a gun (unless he's 'Black' and then the police will shoot him as soon as they arrive)".​

That is not what they said. They said that him holding a gun with officers reacting to an ongoing active shooter " instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene".

Which is pretty much a "No ****, Sherlock" statement for everyone who isn't desperate to turn this into a race narrative.

Would anyone like to bet that the police officer's lawyer is NOT going to come out with a statement along the lines of

"While he's heart broken over what happened, my client honestly believed that his life, and those of the people whose sworn duty it was to protect, was endangered by the person my client saw actually holding the gun when my client responded to an 'Active Shooter' call in the ordinary and everyday course of his employment and was only following established police department policies and procedures."?



Given that, as far as we know, that seems to be what has happened....​
 
Last edited:

Skeptic Bob

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That is not what they said. They said that him holding a gun with officers reacting to an ongoing active shooter " instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene".

Which is pretty much a "No ****, Sherlock" statement for everyone who isn't desperate to turn this into a race narrative.

Would anyone like to bet that the police officer's lawyer is NOT going to come out with a statement along the lines of

"While he's heart broken over what happened, my client honestly believed that his life, and those of the people whose sworn duty it was to protect, was endangered by the person my client saw actually holding the gun when my client responded to an 'Active Shooter' call in the ordinary and everyday course of his employment and was only following established police department policies and procedures."?
[/INDENT]
[/QUOTE]

So the question is whether or not the man cops shot knew the cops were there. If he saw the cops then he should have immediately disarmed. You can’t rely on cops to not shoot first and ask questions last during such a situation.
 

Lursa

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You can’t rely on cops to not shoot first and ask questions last during such a situation.

This is the current reality. As such, all armed citizens should keep it in mind...and if it means playing it safe and not acting on behalf of others, so be it. Those others, if adults, have the same prerogative to be armed or not.

And this danger is discussed in plain terms in firearms training, at least any training worth it's $.
 

Hatuey

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If only he had had a gun, he would have been able to defend himself.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

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So the question is whether or not the man cops shot knew the cops were there. If he saw the cops then he should have immediately disarmed. You can’t rely on cops to not shoot first and ask questions last during such a situation.

At least one witness account (maybe more) said the officer who fired never gave any warning. At the same time the family is saying EJ was shot in the face which would seem he had at least looked that direction as the officer fired. At least one mall camera caught his body laying on the ground after the fatal shot so I'm guessing it probably caught the shooting at least on his actions. I sure hope the police dept isn't going to announce the officer that fired the fatal shot/s wasn't wearing a body cam, or didn't have it turned on. IMO this could get pretty ugly if they aren't as transparent as possible given the initial announcement of their officer being heroic in taking down the "shooter".

As I said on the another thread, in this type of situation things are going crazy, and it can't be assumed that an armed good person is going to have panoramic vision of law enforcement entering a scene. And yes, it's a given that them having a weapon isn't going to be taken as non threatening by whatever officer may first appear either. They will.
 

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SkepticBob said:
So the question is whether or not the man cops shot knew the cops were there. If he saw the cops then he should have immediately disarmed. You can’t rely on cops to not shoot first and ask questions last during such a situation.

:( I can see him just trying to run to safety, and not even thinking about it.

A classic example that not all tragedies are the result of evil.
 

cpwill

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And isn't that a sad state of affairs?

It's a tragic one, but not one that I see much improvement over. Incomplete information is a bitch, but it's part of the human condition, and certainly part of the chaos of a gun fight.
 

The Mark

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From NBC News

Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

HOOVER, Ala. — Police in Alabama promised transparency Monday after a weekend of protests in response to an officer fatally shooting a black man who pulled out his legally permitted weapon following gunfire at a shopping mall.

Hoover Police initially described the officer as "heroic" for bringing down Emantic "EJ" Bradford Jr. after two people were wounded at the Riverchase Galleria mall outside Birmingham Thanksgiving night. Then they retracted the statement, saying it's "unlikely" Bradford was involved.

Bradford's father said his son was a 21-year-old Army veteran with a permit to carry a weapon. The statement police released early Monday suggested Bradford shouldn't have pulled it out.

"We can say with certainty Mr. Bradford brandished a gun during the seconds following the gunshots, which instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene," the statement from the city of Hoover and its police department says.

COMMENT:-

If you read a little further in the article, it seems that there is some ground for believing that the police made no demands and didn't call out any commands before shooting at the "armed person".

If this proves to be the case (and that can only be established once the police release the video) then it appears that the mantra "All it takes is one good man with a gun" should be revised to read "All it takes is one good man with a gun (unless he's 'Black' and then the police will shoot him as soon as they arrive)".

Would anyone like to bet that the police officer's lawyer is NOT going to come out with a statement along the lines of

"While he's heart broken over what happened, my client honestly believed that his life, and those of the people whose sworn duty it was to protect, was endangered by the person my client saw actually holding the gun when my client responded to an 'Active Shooter' call in the ordinary and everyday course of his employment and was only following established police department policies and procedures."?
If the police officers were following established policies and procedures, then those policies and procedures are deeply flawed.
 

ElChupacabra

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

Sometmes people confuse prejudice and racism. Predjudices do not necesarily equal racism. Racism is a belief in superiority, prejudice is a pre-judgment based on experience (whether valid or not), but yeah, I pretty much agree there. My god, how pathetic. IDK if I care to get deeper into this one, as I did not read more than just the thread thus far, and it's a topic I dislike cuz how ugly it can get, but there was no call for that crap.

It's standard operating procedure for the poster so no surprises there.
 

Mr Person

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

I really want to see people big on gun ownership piping up over this stuff.


If you're in the middle of a situation like that and trying to stop the bad guy with your own gun, you really might not notice or hear cops (not that there is any indication that they announced their presence here).

You may get killed for doing the right thing with a weapon you lawfully possess. Indeed, doing the very thing you possess it for.


OP's article says:

"We can say with certainty Mr. Bradford brandished a gun during the seconds following the gunshots, which instantly heightened the sense of threat to approaching police officers responding to the chaotic scene," the statement from the city of Hoover and its police department says.

Yeah, that's exactly what you have to do to use a gun to stop a bad guy. You have to actually point it at him before anything can happen. I'm no gun nut, but I'm fairly certain that's how it works.
 

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

I really want to see people big on gun ownership piping up over this stuff.


If you're in the middle of a situation like that and trying to stop the bad guy with your own gun, you really might not notice or hear cops (not that there is any indication that they announced their presence here).

You may get killed for doing the right thing with a weapon you lawfully possess. Indeed, doing the very thing you possess it for.




Yeah, that's exactly what you have to do to use a gun to stop a bad guy. You have to actually point it at him before anything can happen. I'm no gun nut, but I'm fairly certain that's how it works.

IMO unless you're in some small type situation like personal armed robbery, hold up at a 7-11 where it's clear who the bad guy with the gun is, then sure, be that good guy. Your odds are good. If you're in a situation like this? I agree 100% that with everything going on noticing police might very well not happen until it's too late.
 

Lursa

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

I really want to see people big on gun ownership piping up over this stuff.


If you're in the middle of a situation like that and trying to stop the bad guy with your own gun, you really might not notice or hear cops (not that there is any indication that they announced their presence here).

You may get killed for doing the right thing with a weapon you lawfully possess. Indeed, doing the very thing you possess it for.

That's exactly what any basic handgun training will explain to you...those dangers.

Gun carriers are under no obligation to protect others. And I'm not quite sure why so many people assume we'd all play cop or hero.

I'm not. Most people, just like cops, want to go home to their families. If they're adults, they all had the same prerogative to be carrying or have other survival plans prepared. (IMO having some decent plans in mind for a variety of solutions could help many survive in these events. I do it casually all the time when I go places.)
 

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Re: Alabama police suggest black man killed by officer shouldn't have held his gun

Isn't this the second African American "good guy with a gun" shot dead by cops in the last 2 months?

Apparently that doesn't apply to certain people.
 
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