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VP Takes Full Responibility In Shooting

fooligan

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KCConservative said:
Thanks, but I was looking for the link that supports the assertion that he was drunk in this instance.


That, my friend, is not an assertion... it is a supposition.
 

26 X World Champs

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easyt65 said:
The whole point was that it was NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS - had NOTHING to do with YOU at all! Cheyne did not owe anyone except the man he shot an apology, and he did NOT have to do it on national T.V.

Jimminy Cricket! :doh

And, by God, SOMEONE needs to rein in the media. This was RIDICULOUS!
Bullshit! When the VP shoots some accidently it is news and does demand an explanation. It is totally biased of you to suggest otherwise. No one disputes that it was an accident, but lots of us dispute the stonewalling as another example of the deception that is everyday SOP in the Bush Administration.

To say it was a private matter is outrageous.

Look at this way? If the situation were reversed and it was Cheney shot would this be a private matter too that would not be revealed? Do you think that the shooter of the VP would have been arrested?

All Cheney had to do was meet the press, tell the truth and it would have gone away. He was too damn stupid and arrogant to do the right thing and that is the issue, not that he shot someone.
 

Goobieman

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26 X World Champs said:
Bullshit! When the VP shoots some accidently it is news and does demand an explanation. It is totally biased of you to suggest otherwise. No one disputes that it was an accident, but lots of us dispute the stonewalling as another example of the deception that is everyday SOP in the Bush Administration.

Who stonewalled? What deception?
It happened Saturday ~7PM
It was reported to the press Sunday AM

Your hyperbole speaks volumes about your partisan bigotry.

Now tell us about Herry Reid not reporting his stroke for three days after he had it.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,166277,00.html
 

26 X World Champs

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aps said:
I have to say that based on reading what he said, it sounded absolutely beautiful. I got all choked up reading about it. I am very impressed with him. He took responsibility and expressed emotion. He really showed a wonderful side to him. Watch this whole incident become old news.
I disagree! He still refused to admit that he made a mistake in stonewalling. He wasn't "man" enough to admit he was wrong and his damn foolish pride, again, is interfering with making the correct decision.

I'm a bit amazed that you're buying the propaganda so willingly?
 

26 X World Champs

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Goobieman said:
Who stonewalled? What deception?
It happened Saturday ~7PM
It was reported to the press Sunday AM

Your hyperbole speaks volumes about your partisan bigotry.
So then you're saying that former Republican White House Press Secretaries are also partisan bigots? Are you sure you want to write that?
By Joe Strupp

Published: February 14, 2006 1:50 PM ET

NEW YORK Former White House Press Secretary Marlin Fitzwater criticized Vice President Dick Cheney Tuesday for delaying the release of information about his hunting accident on Saturday, saying Cheney "ignored his responsibility to the American people." He told E&P he was "appalled by the whole handling of this."

"The responsibility for handling this, of course, was Cheney's," Fitzwater, who served as presidential press secretary for George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan, told E&P in a phone interview from his Maryland home. "What he should have done was call his press secretary and tell her what happened and she then would have gotten a hold of the doctor and asked him what happened. Then interview [ranch owner] Katharine Armstrong to get her side of events and then put out a statement to inform the public.

"They could have done all of that in about two hours on Saturday. It is beyond me why it was not done this way."
Source: http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001996613

How about this one?
Ari Fleischer Joins Criticism Of Cheney's Response to Shooting

By Joe Strupp

Published: February 14, 2006 5:30 PM ET

NEW YORK Ari Fleischer, who served as President George W. Bush's first press secretary, added to the growing criticism of Vice President Dick Cheney's handling of the weekend shooting incident in Texas, telling E&P this afternoon that it "crosses the threshold of news worthiness that ought to be announced and explained."
Source: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001996948

So what was that you were writing about my partisan bigotry? I guess there are some newly crowned Republican partisan bigots against Cheney too?

Good job!
 

aps

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KCConservative said:
Well didn't he?

Yes. I can forgive certain lies. Just say Bush was pulled over and was asked if he had been drinking. He says no, when he had. I wouldn't fault him for denying that he had anything to drink. Those kind of reactions are plausible and, frankly, insignfiicant. Now, if Bush killed someone as a result, that would be different. But if he was caught driving while being drunk, it's not something I personally would be harping on. But that's me. I guess for you all, that's one of the things you need to harp on to criticize him. Oh well.
 

aps

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26 X World Champs said:
I disagree! He still refused to admit that he made a mistake in stonewalling. He wasn't "man" enough to admit he was wrong and his damn foolish pride, again, is interfering with making the correct decision.

I'm a bit amazed that you're buying the propaganda so willingly?

I like his apology. It sounded sincere, and I was touched by his words that this was the worst day of his life and he would never forget seeing Whittington fall to the ground. This part of his interview I genuinely liked and admired. He's expressing feelings that would be normal in this kind of situtation, so yes, I believe this part of the interview.

However, there are too many holes in his story. He said that Armstrong offered to talk to the press, and he agreed because she was an eye witness to the incident. (By the way, according to Maureen Dowd, Armstrong's mother was on the board of directors at Halliburton when Cheney was hired as CEO). Armstrong has stated different stories (that she offered to go to the press, that Cheney asked her to go to the press), which specifics I cannot remember right now. As a result, this news story will not die for now because people want to know what the real story is. Further, Cheney called Whittingon his "friend" when talking about the incident. When asked directly if he was a friend or acquaintenance, Cheney said the latter without any hesitation. What is up with that?

I agree that the way he went about providing the story to the press was all wrong, and he is a fool to stand by that assessment, although he is not a man who is willing to admit error, just like our president.
 

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KCConservative said:
Thanks, but I was looking for the link that supports the assertion that he was drunk in this instance.

I didn't say he was drunk, I simply said it is a possibility. It was a weekend of fun, hunting with friends and relaxing, alcohol to the equation is not unreasonable.
 

Goobieman

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26 X World Champs said:
So then you're saying that former Republican White House Press Secretaries are also partisan bigots? Are you sure you want to write that?

Source: http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001996613

How about this one?

Source: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001996948

So what was that you were writing about my partisan bigotry? I guess there are some newly crowned Republican partisan bigots against Cheney too?

Good job!

Odd - I dont see them accusuing Cheney with hyperbolic terms like "stonewall" and "deception". Thats just YOU and YOUR partisan bigotry.

And, as usual, You didnt address the point.

It was reported to the press the next morning.
Who stonewalled?
Who deceived?
How so?
 
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fooligan

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aps said:
However, there are too many holes in his story. He said that Armstrong offered to talk to the press, and he agreed because she was an eye witness to the incident. (By the way, according to Maureen Dowd, Armstrong's mother was on the board of directors at Halliburton when Cheney was hired as CEO). Armstrong has stated different stories (that she offered to go to the press, that Cheney asked her to go to the press), which specifics I cannot remember right now. As a result, this news story will not die for now because people want to know what the real story is. Further, Cheney called Whittingon his "friend" when talking about the incident. When asked directly if he was a friend or acquaintenance, Cheney said the latter without any hesitation. What is up with that?


Oh goody. I get to call someone an idiot again.

Idiot.

I guess we'll never know, lest we find ourselves in his positioin.

I hate people that jump the gun. I really do.
 

aps

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Goobieman said:
Odd - I dont see them accusuing Cheney with hyperbolic terms like "stonewall" and "deception". Thats just YOU and YOUR partisan bigotry.

And, as usual, You didnt address the point.

It was reported to the press the next morning.
Who stonewalled?
Who deceived?
How so?

LOL He didn't address your point? You stated:

Who stonewalled? What deception?
It happened Saturday ~7PM
It was reported to the press Sunday AM

Your hyperbole speaks volumes about your partisan bigotry.

At a minimum, Champs was addressing the delay in reporting this incident to the press (i.e., stonewalling) by pointing out that republicans have criticized the VP's delay. Thus, he was showing that it his assertions are not "partisan bigotry." Nice try though--pretend he doesn't even remotely answer your questions.
 

fooligan

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aps said:
At a minimum, Champs was addressing the delay in reporting this incident to the press (i.e., stonewalling) by pointing out that republicans have criticized the VP's delay. Thus, he was showing that it his assertions are not "partisan bigotry." Nice try though--pretend he doesn't even remotely answer your questions.

Okay. Let's pretent it's a big deal.

What difference does it make?


Three weeks from now you'll be latched onto something else ;)
 

easyt65

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Saboteur said:
Wait a minute.

Us, Liberals gotta hear about Bill Clinton's sexual adventures for years on end. And we gotta see Howard Dean say 'YeeHaa!' at a democrat caucus on every t.v. show and "liberal" main stream media news show there is over and over and over again for 3 weeks straight during the '04 elections and a simple 'I'm sorry I just about killed someone on the taxpayers buck while hunting' is good enough?

If this were John Edwards' "accident", you conservatives would be calling for his resignation and saying how reckless democrats are.

And frankly I'm sick of your contempt and hatred.

If Cheney had gotten a hummer from his friend before he shot him maybe this would be news, but since the ONLY issue is that the media is mad that they got scooped by a local, small-town newspaper, this is all about nothing.

Newsflash, too. The polls are quickly showing that Americans are sympathetic to Cheney, how he is going to have to 'carry this with him for the rest of his life, and are seeing the Dems and libs continuing to attack this as cold, heartless opportunity-seizing politicians. I know how you Libs like polls, so I though I would bring this up! polls show you are just shooting yourselves in the foot, just like in 2000 and 2004!
 

fooligan

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BTW APS... what did you think of you liberal friend in SF saying America should have NO MILITARY... that cops should protect us
 

easyt65

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scottyz said:
The same argument could have been made about Clinton and Monica.

Uh...unless Clinton slipped, fell, and ACCIDENTALLY IMPALED Lewinski with his 'Slick Willey', then it doesn't even remotely fall into the same category as a hunting accident.
 

aps

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fooligan said:
Oh goody. I get to call someone an idiot again.

Idiot.

I guess we'll never know, lest we find ourselves in his positioin.

I hate people that jump the gun. I really do.

Excuse me, but calling me an idiot isn't debating. Read the rules, will you?

All I was doing was pointing out that I had heard varying facts. I have not drawn any conclusions except to point out that there are varying facts. Sorry this is indicative of "jump[ing] the gun."
 

aps

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fooligan said:
Okay. Let's pretent it's a big deal.

What difference does it make?


Three weeks from now you'll be latched onto something else ;)

Jesus, fooligan, I am not saying it's a big deal. I was only pointing out to Goobieman that his allegation that Champs had not answered his questions was unfounded.

Get the chip off your shoulder. I need to check to see how old you are.

41. Yikes.
 

aps

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fooligan said:
BTW APS... what did you think of you liberal friend in SF saying America should have NO MILITARY... that cops should protect us

I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Goobieman

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aps said:
At a minimum, Champs was addressing the delay in reporting this incident to the press (i.e., stonewalling)
Very odd definition of "stonewalling" you have there.

How does "waiting until the next morning to report an incident that happened the evening before" qualify as "[refusing] to answer or cooperate with; resist or rebuff" or "obstruct[ing] or hinder[ing] any discussion"?

by pointing out that republicans have criticized the VP's delay.
Again - they did not accuse Cheney of "stonewalling" or "deception" -- those terms of hyperbole, as I said, were used by the partisan bigot.

Nice try though--pretend he doesn't even remotely answer your questions
He didnt. Not even remotely.
 

fooligan

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easyt65 said:
If Cheney had gotten a hummer from his friend before he shot him maybe this would be news, but since the ONLY issue is that the media is mad that they got scooped by a local, small-town newspaper, this is all about nothing.

Newsflash, too. The polls are quickly showing that Americans are sympathetic to Cheney, how he is going to have to 'carry this with him for the rest of his life, and are seeing the Dems and libs continuing to attack this as cold, heartless opportunity-seizing politicians. I know how you Libs like polls, so I though I would bring this up! polls show you are just shooting yourselves in the foot, just like in 2000 and 2004!


Aww, look. He's getting tired of the teasing.


Imagine him being teased with a few hundred bombs and no one to back him up. Well, execpt for the cops... he's called them but man it will be days. If ever. The cops fled because it was never their job to begin with. Boom.

The military ~ where is it?

Certain people live in bubbles.

The military is right where we need it.
 

aps

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Goobieman said:
Very odd definition of "stonewalling" you have there.
How does "waiting until the next morning to report an incident that happened the evening before" qualify as "[refusing] to answer or cooperate with; resist or rebuff"?


Again - they did not accuse Cheney of "stonewalling" or "deception" -- those terms of hyperbole, as I said, were used by the partisan bigot.


He didnt. Not even remotely.

Stonewalling means to engage in delay tactics. Just FYI. If you don't think that Fleisher and Fitzwater pointing out that Cheney should have reported the incident sooner is indicative of saying that Cheney "delayed" in reporting it to the press, then I would question your ability to analyze facts.
 

fooligan

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fooligan said:
Aww, look. He's getting tired of the teasing.


Imagine him being teased with a few hundred bombs and no one to back him up. Well, execpt for the cops... he's called them but man it will be days. If ever. The cops fled because it was never their job to begin with. Boom.

The military ~ where is it?

Certain people live in bubbles.

The military is right where we need it.

/quoted the wrong guy. Sorry.
 

Goobieman

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aps said:
Stonewalling means to engage in delay tactics. Just FYI. If you don't think that Fleisher and Fitzwater pointing out that Cheney should have reported the incident sooner is indicative of saying that Cheney "delayed" in reporting it to the press, then I would question your ability to analyze facts.

There's a lot more to "stonewalling" than "delaying tactics", and there's a lot more to "delaying tactics" than "waiting until the next morning".

If you dont get that, then I question your intellectual honesty.
 
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GarzaUK

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fooligan said:
Oh goody. I get to call someone an idiot again.

Idiot.

I guess we'll never know, lest we find ourselves in his positioin.

I hate people that jump the gun. I really do.

Moderator's Warning:
Fooligan lets keep the personal attacks such as idiot to the basement okay. It gives nothing to the debate. Thank You.
 

aps

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Goobieman said:
There's a lot more to "stonewalling" than "delaying tactics", and there's a lot more to "delaying tactics" than "waiting until the next morning".

If you dont get that, then I question your intellectual honesty.

I looked up the definition in the dictionary, which stated, "To engage in delaying tactics; stall." Websters Dictionary.

What constitutes "delaying tactics" is in the eye of the beholder. If you think that Cheney didn't stonewall, that's fine. Some people think he did. If you think there can be only one way to view this situation, I would question your intellectual honesty.
 
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