Vox: On Second Thought, The American Revolution Was A Mistake.....

[MMC]

Although I agree that under a parliamentary system thing would have been different, but can we really say how different? He begins by agreeing it is "messy business" but then gets absolutely filthy with it.

There is no evidence the British would have ended slavery, as they had imposed it in the first place.

First, he ignore, as usual, Canada's history and how it gained nationhood, independence is NOT a word used here. In fact, we do not have any independence, technically speaking as Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's head of state to this day. As recently as the 1980's, the Prime Minister of the day had to petition Buckingham Palace for an increase in the number of seats in our un-elected Senate. Were not allowed our own flag until 1967, which is whan Oh Canada, replaced "God Save the Queen."

Canada did not become a nation 100 years later, but a "Dominion" created by the BNA, British North America Act, which was an act of the British Parliament that remained in effect until 1982....



Americans would have had to wait 200 years for the "independence" she sought.


I also glosses over the British treatment of first nations, a less blood thirsty approach but far more devastating, it ignores Canada's struggles economically while Britian raped the resources of this land, and deliberately forced a wedge of division between French and English we are still try to heal.

The grass is always greener in your neighbor's pasture. And I am grateful I live here and not there. But it is not the utopia he makes it out to be, and the reality is nothing any American I have ever met would be able to accept.

He also forgets there would be no Theodore Roosevelt Navy, no American Army, no Air Force.....Canada's troops who served so admirably in Europe, died in greater numbers than most other countries, and some in the military ascribe to the fact Canadians were not allowed to command their own troops until after WWII.

These are not things Americans could accept.

Heya F&L :2wave: Then he forget the most important part and that there would be those to point that out.



Nevertheless, it shows you that consensus is key in advancing our society in a democratic manner.....snip~

 

[Mason66]

Oh, some more of the left wing media finding something else to be sensitive about. Here is a liberal from Vox and his take on why the American Independence was a mistake. Thinks the British would have ended slavery and provided a better form of government. What say ye?




Dylan Matthews of Vox appears to be lamenting our independence since we would have abolished slavery sooner, the Native Americans would have experienced a slightly less horrific genocide, and we would have adopted the UK’s system of government, which is totally better than America’s (coding to liberals) because it allows the governing party to bulldoze over its opponents to push through their agenda (unless it’s a question about the EU):

American independence in 1776 was a monumental mistake. We should be mourning the fact that we left the United Kingdom, not cheering it. Of course, evaluating the wisdom of the American Revolution means dealing with counterfactuals. As any historian would tell you, this is messy business. We obviously can't be entirely sure how America would have fared if it had stayed in the British Empire longer, perhaps gaining independence a century or so later, along with Canada.

But I'm reasonably confident a world where the revolution never happened would be better than the one we live in now, for three main reasons: slavery would've been abolished earlier, American Indians would've faced rampant persecution but not the outright ethnic cleansing Andrew Jackson and other American leaders perpetrated, and America would have a parliamentary system of government that makes policymaking easier and lessens the risk of democratic collapse.....snip~

Vox: On Second Thought, The American Revolution Was A Mistake - Matt Vespa

I don't agree. I like our zip code system much better than theirs.

 

[MMC]

I don't agree. I like our zip code system much better than theirs.

Heya Mason. :2wave: Not to mention the Sunshine.....Didn't Bill Withers sing, Ain't no Sunshine when he went touring the UK. :2razz:

 

[Peter King]

Oh, some more of the left wing media finding something else to be sensitive about. Here is a liberal from Vox and his take on why the American Independence was a mistake. Thinks the British would have ended slavery and provided a better form of government. What say ye?




Dylan Matthews of Vox appears to be lamenting our independence since we would have abolished slavery sooner, the Native Americans would have experienced a slightly less horrific genocide, and we would have adopted the UK’s system of government, which is totally better than America’s (coding to liberals) because it allows the governing party to bulldoze over its opponents to push through their agenda (unless it’s a question about the EU):

American independence in 1776 was a monumental mistake. We should be mourning the fact that we left the United Kingdom, not cheering it. Of course, evaluating the wisdom of the American Revolution means dealing with counterfactuals. As any historian would tell you, this is messy business. We obviously can't be entirely sure how America would have fared if it had stayed in the British Empire longer, perhaps gaining independence a century or so later, along with Canada.

But I'm reasonably confident a world where the revolution never happened would be better than the one we live in now, for three main reasons: slavery would've been abolished earlier, American Indians would've faced rampant persecution but not the outright ethnic cleansing Andrew Jackson and other American leaders perpetrated, and America would have a parliamentary system of government that makes policymaking easier and lessens the risk of democratic collapse.....snip~

Vox: On Second Thought, The American Revolution Was A Mistake - Matt Vespa

There are idiots on both sides of the political spectrum and this one clearly is a loony lefty.

If not for the founding fathers those pesky British would have robbed the US of all it's gold and natural resources and they would have curtailed freedom of speech and liberty in ways that would have still crippled the US for centuries to come. No, you did the right thing, cut the ties with the Brits and did it your way, just like most countries should and want.

 

[Unicron]

There are idiots on both sides of the political spectrum and this one clearly is a loony lefty.

If not for the founding fathers those pesky British would have robbed the US of all it's gold and natural resources and they would have curtailed freedom of speech and liberty in ways that would have still crippled the US for centuries to come. No, you did the right thing, cut the ties with the Brits and did it your way, just like most countries should and want.

I think he may be far right. Britain abolished slavery because they didn't want black people to be in Britain.

And think about how all the poor whites today in America could benefit from universal health care. I reckon America is the worst place to be a poor white outside of South Africa.

And the Native American thing? Well far right nationalists believe each race should be left alone so that fits too.

 

[Bethlehem Bill]

i don't understand why so many people seem to think "congressional gridlock" is such a horrible thing

in the first session of the 113th house (jan 2013 - dec 2013) there were 641 different votes, many of them were strong majority decisions (60/40 or 70/30 or even higher). so one, the Ds & Rs seem to agree on quite a bit, and two, if they can't put something together on major issues, then they need to go back to their constituents, listen to the feedback, and keep working on compromises

in my opinion, the PPACA is an example of bad legislation (or as someone might say - "inartful drafting") where it was jammed through where the status quo would have been preferable. yes - leave things the way they are unless you can come up with a good plan that most of us can get behind. for as long as it takes.

i mean, slavery was legal for almost a century before the 13th amendment; women couldn't vote until the 19th (1920); there were 13 years between the 18th & 21st amendments re: alcohol.

in my view, it is the internet age that has conditioned people to expect everything to be instantaneous. but a brief look at the history of our country, and our form of government, shows that things move slowly, especially when considering legislation that affects the entire country. we have 50 states, all of which are different in a multitude of ways. so of course its going to take a while to work out laws that all 50 of our states have to abide by.

finally - just because a piece of legislation is passed doesn't actually guarantee a particular outcome. there will always be holdouts; implementation will prove more difficult than expected (see PPACA); real world developments will change the political reality and national mood... having a national consensus is important for the perceived legitimacy of the law as well.

i like our system, even if it moves slowly. and maybe just because i was born and raised here i've been conditioned to think like this, but the notion of a monarch making decrees just seems absurd and antiquated

 

[SocialDemocrat]

Support for monarchy is not left wing. The term 'left-wing' originated from opposition to monarchy in the French Revolution. This is a pathetic attempt by Vox to be edgy.

 

[MMC]

Support for monarchy is not left wing. The term 'left-wing' originated from opposition to monarchy in the French Revolution. This is a pathetic attempt by Vox to be edgy.

Its being a bit more than edgy, don't you think.

 

[SocialDemocrat]

Its being a bit more than edgy, don't you think.

What point are you trying to make with this post? Vox essentially boils down to uber-hipster nonsense, and that's pretty much what this article is.

 

[MMC]

What point are you trying to make with this post? Vox essentially boils down to uber-hipster nonsense, and that's pretty much what this article is.

I thought the revisionist history part, wouldn't be hard to notice.

 

[Deuce]

i don't understand why so many people seem to think "congressional gridlock" is such a horrible thing

in the first session of the 113th house (jan 2013 - dec 2013) there were 641 different votes, many of them were strong majority decisions (60/40 or 70/30 or even higher). so one, the Ds & Rs seem to agree on quite a bit, and two, if they can't put something together on major issues, then they need to go back to their constituents, listen to the feedback, and keep working on compromises

in my opinion, the PPACA is an example of bad legislation (or as someone might say - "inartful drafting") where it was jammed through where the status quo would have been preferable. yes - leave things the way they are unless you can come up with a good plan that most of us can get behind. for as long as it takes.

The idea that the PPACA was "jammed through" is astoundingly absurd.

Took a year, dude. And the status quo was double digit increases in my health insurance premiums year after year.

Most people are against Obamacare, but most people are for whats in it.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Oh, some more of the left wing media finding something else to be sensitive about. Here is a liberal from Vox and his take on why the American Independence was a mistake. Thinks the British would have ended slavery and provided a better form of government. What say ye?




Dylan Matthews of Vox appears to be lamenting our independence since we would have abolished slavery sooner, the Native Americans would have experienced a slightly less horrific genocide, and we would have adopted the UK’s system of government, which is totally better than America’s (coding to liberals) because it allows the governing party to bulldoze over its opponents to push through their agenda (unless it’s a question about the EU):

American independence in 1776 was a monumental mistake. We should be mourning the fact that we left the United Kingdom, not cheering it. Of course, evaluating the wisdom of the American Revolution means dealing with counterfactuals. As any historian would tell you, this is messy business. We obviously can't be entirely sure how America would have fared if it had stayed in the British Empire longer, perhaps gaining independence a century or so later, along with Canada.

But I'm reasonably confident a world where the revolution never happened would be better than the one we live in now, for three main reasons: slavery would've been abolished earlier, American Indians would've faced rampant persecution but not the outright ethnic cleansing Andrew Jackson and other American leaders perpetrated, and America would have a parliamentary system of government that makes policymaking easier and lessens the risk of democratic collapse.....snip~

Vox: On Second Thought, The American Revolution Was A Mistake - Matt Vespa

How dare someone write a critical piece about the most holiest of holly events!

 

[Chomsky]

The idea that the PPACA was "jammed through" is astoundingly absurd.

Took a year, dude. And the status quo was double digit increases in my health insurance premiums year after year.

Most people are against Obamacare, but most people are for whats in it.

*bolding mine

True - and even more people yet are supportive of the 'Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act!

 

[Greenbeard]

Anything to support greater statism.

This is a ridiculous opinion, but none the less, one that he's allowed to have, regardless of it's stupidity (much different than the intolerant left).

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to hold this opinion.

Slavery in a free nation should embarrass you a bit more.

 

[Bethlehem Bill]

The idea that the PPACA was "jammed through" is astoundingly absurd.

Took a year, dude. And the status quo was double digit increases in my health insurance premiums year after year.

Most people are against Obamacare, but most people are for whats in it.

sorry - i didn't mean the time it took in number of days or years; some sides of this have been fighting for it for much longer than that

i meant the reconciliation process they used to get around the fact that kennedy's seat was replaced with an (R)

look at who voted for it; are there any other sweeping bills like this that had such a one-sided vote?

and you're right - a lot of people are for what's in it. but that doesn't make it right. most people are for endless minimum wage hikes and indefinite unemployment, free pre-K, free post-seconday education etc. easy to be for something that someone else has to pay for (but that's a different debate altogether)

finally - looks like there are still going to be double digit increases year over year anyway.

lot of nasty political fighting for several years over something that really hasn't done a whole lot to solve its stated goals, just a lot of bitterness and acrimony

 

[Deuce]

sorry - i didn't mean the time it took in number of days or years; some sides of this have been fighting for it for much longer than that

i meant the reconciliation process they used to get around the fact that kennedy's seat was replaced with an (R)

look at who voted for it; are there any other sweeping bills like this that had such a one-sided vote?

and you're right - a lot of people are for what's in it. but that doesn't make it right. most people are for endless minimum wage hikes and indefinite unemployment, free pre-K, free post-seconday education etc. easy to be for something that someone else has to pay for (but that's a different debate altogether)

finally - looks like there are still going to be double digit increases year over year anyway.

lot of nasty political fighting for several years over something that really hasn't done a whole lot to solve its stated goals, just a lot of bitterness and acrimony

Evidence shows that the PPACA has slowed the increase in healthcare costs. Not exactly a stunning victory, but it hardly supports the idea that it is worse than the status quo.

 

[MMC]

How dare someone write a critical piece about the most holiest of holly events!

Awww, did your sensitive little feelings get bruised? :doh

 

[iliveonramen]

I thought the revisionist history part, wouldn't be hard to notice.

What part is revisionist?

The UK banned slavery in 1833 and the slave trade in the late 1700's.
The UK did try to halt westward expansion. The UK's actions are why a lot of native tribes supported the British during the revolution. They knew colonist unchecked would be dangerous to them...and they were right.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Awww, did your sensitive little feelings get bruised? :doh

Not at all. Im just enjoying the "outrage" from many on the right because of title.

 

[MMC]

What part is revisionist?

The UK banned slavery in 1833 and the slave trade in the late 1700's.
The UK did try to halt westward expansion. The UK's actions are why a lot of native tribes supported the British during the revolution. They knew colonist unchecked would be dangerous to them...and they were right.

The parts he left out. :2wave:


The British and the French consistently pitted the native tribes against one another in the frontier lands of America, and that strategy of playing tribes off each other would have been probably entered another vicious cycle in the Napoleonic Wars. Oh, and Pontiac’s Rebellion–a three-year war against the British by a confederation of tribes along the Great Lakes–began due to British mistreatment.....snip~

 

[MMC]

Not at all. Im just enjoying the "outrage" from many on the right because of title.

Yeah that's Right, I forgot how you think mocking and insulting anothers intelligence is outrage. Your Smart powers, went on the blink again did they? :lamo

 

[Fearandloathing]

As usual you go to Clownhall to get your spin, Here is the actual title of that piece from Vox:

3 reasons the American Revolution was a mistake - Vox

For a change maybe you should actually read the piece....his headline is not misleading in the least if you have read it.

More of that blind knee-jerk reaction to oppose everything and anything posted by a conservative....

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Yeah that's Right, I forgot how you think mocking and insulting anothers intelligence is outrage. Your Smart powers, went on the blink again did they? :lamo

Hey, I'm not the one outraged at a critical article of US history...

 

[Fearandloathing]

What part is revisionist?

The UK banned slavery in 1833 and the slave trade in the late 1700's.
The UK did try to halt westward expansion. The UK's actions are why a lot of native tribes supported the British during the revolution. They knew colonist unchecked would be dangerous to them...and they were right.

One, there was no UK at that time, so the whole post gets an 'F"

Two, the British feared westward expansion because it was French Territory.....and they were kind of less than friends...

Three, no "tribes" supported the British, it was native nations, the largest of which was the Iroquois Confederacy, that comprised several nationslike the Huron, Onandaga, Mohawk, Seneca, Tuscarora, etc.

And they backed the British because the British treated them well, made fair trades while the Colonials did not.

Man o man I love correcting Americans on their own history.

Have a look at least at when the Britain and its island territories became "Great Britian" and why

 

[Fearandloathing]

And in a Parliamentary democracy more can be accomplished. Witness the dysfunction within your Congress.
That said a carbon tax brought in by 1 Govt. can be repealed by the next party winning a majority or thru a coalition.

They can never understand Question Period...and how that makes for open government.

The only reason governments can get **** past us s because our politics is so boring