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Vouchers Prove Hypocrisy

JOHNYJ

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The BlackCaucus has about 44 members only 1 sends his children to public school. It is a proveable fact that many anti-vocucher democrats send their kids to private school. Do I hear a " Do as I say not as I do "
example.
Its O.K. for your kids to go to inferior schools.This same Congressman is using your Tax money that pays him .To send his kids to private school.Sholdn't the operative saying be," Whats good for the goose is good for the gander ". If these schools are good enough for your kids they should be good enogh for his.
 
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JOHNYJ said:
The BlackCaucus has about 44 members only 1 sends his children to public school. It is a proveable fact that many anti-vocucher democrats send their kids to private school. Do I hear a " Do as I say not as I do "
example.
Its O.K. for your kids to go to inferior schools.This same Congressman is using your Tax money that pays him .To send his kids to private school.Sholdn't the operative saying be," Whats good for the goose is good for the gander ". If these schools are good enough for your kids they should be good enogh for his.

He earned the money. The idea of the ridiculous voucher program is to give black kids and other minorities a free pass courtesy of the american tax payer. The Congressman is using his salary to pay for the private school. He's not raising an additional tax to pay for the tuition.
 

ngdawg

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It would an interesting statistic to see how many congressional proponents of the vouchers send their kids to private school. I know many teachers in public schools do and was told by my son's teachers he should be in one as he's too smart for public school. Unfortunately, we aren't poor enough to get vouchers or rich enough to pay....
 

TurtleDude

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ngdawg said:
It would an interesting statistic to see how many congressional proponents of the vouchers send their kids to private school. I know many teachers in public schools do and was told by my son's teachers he should be in one as he's too smart for public school. Unfortunately, we aren't poor enough to get vouchers or rich enough to pay....

that sucks. the prep school I went to gave plenty of scholarship money out.
 

zk655

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JOHNYJ said:
The BlackCaucus has about 44 members only 1 sends his children to public school. It is a proveable fact that many anti-vocucher democrats send their kids to private school. Do I hear a " Do as I say not as I do "
example.
Its O.K. for your kids to go to inferior schools.This same Congressman is using your Tax money that pays him .To send his kids to private school.Sholdn't the operative saying be," Whats good for the goose is good for the gander ". If these schools are good enough for your kids they should be good enogh for his.

"Anti-Voucher" people (myself included) arent anti-private school. However, if the government funds tuition for private schools and abandons public education, then they better GUARANTEE that every child in America will be getting a FULL ride to the best private school of their parents choice.

Problem 1: It won't happen. Some kids will get a break and the rest will be subjected to having to learn in an environment that is worse than it is now. CHANCE OF Success: 0%

Problem 2: Even if the government guaranteed that every child in America would be going to the best private school, wouldn't you really just be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Instead of trying to find clever ways of pushing dollars around and solving NOTHING, how about making a concerted effort to actually discover WHY our public education system is failing to do its job and make a commitment as Americans to actually FIX IT.

There is NOTHING more important to the future success and survival of this country than ensuring that every child is provided the opportunity to recieve the best education on earth. Unfortunately, as a country, education is never an actual priority.
 

UtahBill

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Whether attending public or private school, the best thing you can do for your children is to instill in them a sense of doubt about what they will hear and read in school, especially concerning history. Let them know that they are only getting the tip of the iceberg and that there is so much more to be learned once they get into college. For those among us who are young high school graduates and never took college classes, you are most likely living under a false set of impressions about our history. Even with college, depending on where you go, you can get a distorted view of what has happened, and what is happening.
So encourage your kids to visit the library or use google a lot, and try to find alternative opinions of what was going on during the period of time that his/her school teacher is covering at the time. A lot of teachers hate that, but some absolutely enjoy it. They might get into trouble for bringing up the dark side of an issue, but a kid can get away with it, and all the other kids get exposed to some "truth" that is in opposition to the establishments version of the truth.
My daughter was one of those students in high school, and her teacher liked it. He said, anytime he can get a student to think, he feels good about what he is doing. Most kids just sit and vegetate through school, so the occasional firebrand is a good thing, within reason of course. You can't disrupt the class, but you can stir in a little radical thought, a bit at a time, to make them think about the issues.:spin:
 

JOHNYJ

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All those liberals in the black Caucus that send their kids to private school are taking money from the public schools. Public school aid is based, per pupil ! so all those kids could be helping support the public schools.
More liberal hypocricy.
That said we are not talking abot abandoning the public schools only those that dont work,mostly in Urban areas ( run by liberls usualy,funny isnt it ) .We are also talking about under $ 3,000.00 per voucherIt is obvious that liberals can't run schools no matter how much they have. NYC has a 3 billion dollar school budget and a 50% graduation rate. The Catholic schools pay their teachers about halfe of what NYC payss and has an 85% graduation rate.
 

UtahBill

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JOHNYJ said:
We are also talking about under $ 3,000.00 per voucherIt is obvious that liberals can't run schools no matter how much they have. NYC has a 3 billion dollar school budget and a 50% graduation rate. The Catholic schools pay their teachers about halfe of what NYC payss and has an 85% graduation rate.
Catholic schools turn out a better product as well. I used to have a Catholic HS history text, back in the early 60's, and it covered a LOT more than the one I used in my east Texas public school.
 

zk655

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JOHNYJ said:
All those liberals in the black Caucus that send their kids to private school are taking money from the public schools. Public school aid is based, per pupil ! so all those kids could be helping support the public schools.
More liberal hypocricy.
That said we are not talking abot abandoning the public schools only those that dont work,mostly in Urban areas ( run by liberls usualy,funny isnt it ) .We are also talking about under $ 3,000.00 per voucherIt is obvious that liberals can't run schools no matter how much they have. NYC has a 3 billion dollar school budget and a 50% graduation rate. The Catholic schools pay their teachers about halfe of what NYC payss and has an 85% graduation rate.

Theoretically speaking, if they did go to public school, wouldn't the "extra money" the school got for them attending, go to educate them?

Although it does seem hypocritical, I can certainly understand a parents desire to give his/her child the best opportunity available. For me the real problem lies in the fact that we have let our education system fall apart so much that it becomes necessary for parents to pay someone large sums of money to give their child the type of education that they should be entitled to in the first place.

What's funny to me is that you say that you dont want to abandon all public schools, only the ones that actually need help. Doesn't it seem to be a little counterproductive when you take a school that is doing poorly and cut its funding so that it will be in even worse shape?

I know I know that's where vouchers would come in to play right?

Well I've got a question. Obviously the government isn't going to give full rides to every kid in every underperforming school in the country. That would just be the same "wasteful spending" that "conservatives" are currently rallying against.

So how do you choose which kids get vouchers (and will the vouchers be enough to support a kids education for 12 years)?

And to those that don't get the vouchers, what do you say to them?

"Well you can't have a voucher and due to the fact that we have diverted the funding that used to go to your public school, it will be even worse then before".

Look this isn't just another manufactured "liberal" vs "conservative" issue. Its about the REAL future survival of this country. At this point in time, hasn't it become obvious that money alone isn't the cure to a shitty education system? You blame "liberals" for wanting to continuously spend more money on schools (An idea that has OBVIOUSLY failed). Yet "your" solution is to take that same "wasted" money and shift it (Robbing Peter to pay Paul) towards an option that will either 1) shut out a lot of kids from getting a decent education or 2) overpopulate and over tax a private school system that has no ability to cope with the numbers of children it would have to accomadate to properly educate all of America's children, thereby eventually putting it in the same condition that the public school system is currently in (overcrowded and wrought with frustrated educators, and unprepared children).

We have to do better than this!!!

1) As a country we have to understand the importance of education. Everyone always says how important it is to educate or children, yet come election time it always falls by the wayside. Instead we vote based on a fear of terrorism, economy, employment, poverty, social security, and morality issues. All things that could be improved if, as a whole, our children were the recipients of a strong education. Our societal view of the importance of education seriously needs to be re-evaluated.

2) To begin fixing the problem, not only do we have to investigate where we have failed as a country and fix it, but we are also going to have to be open-minded enough to look into the systems employed by other countries that work(including Japan, India, and most of Europe). Gasp!!! I know its awful to think about having to potentially seek advice from foreigners, but seeing as they seem to have a grasp on the importance of education, maybe we can listen for once.

3) Perhaps we can stop judging a child's potential by their socio-economic status or their race, and understand that they are simply CHILDREN that ALL deserve to receive proper guidance and the opportunity for a great education.

4) Perhaps we can stop treating teachers as 3rd class citizens and give them the hero treatment that they deserve. Yes there are some bad teachers out there and we need to make a concerted effort to have them removed. However, there are many more good ones, and they need to be recognized for their efforts. Despite what most people think, teaching has easily got to be one of the most challenging and selfless professions there is. Right up their with Police Officer, Fire fighter, and Soldier (IMO). WE routinely celebrate the heroics of these professions (as we should), but we ignore the struggles of our teachers. Why? All they do is take relatively little pay for the skills they have garnered (most could make much better money in another profession), and put themselves under the scutiny of angry parents, an unsympathetic administration, and deal with bullshit government red tape, all in order to teach our kids.

5) Perhaps, as a society, we can find a way to agree on what OUR children need to be successful members of a rapidly expanding global community (partially created by us) and ensure that they get it. WE can start by making sure that they get STRONG fundamental basics EARLY ON, with an emphasis (IMO) on Science, Mathematics, and reading. Perhaps we can also put our nationalistic feelings aside and understand the benefits of teaching a second language when they can actually retain it.

6) As they get older, perhaps they can use the strong fundamentals they received early on to learn how to think critically and on their feet, rather than limiting their knowledge to taking a few standardized tests.

7) Maybe, as a society, we can realize the importance of making extracurricular activities such as art, music, and athletics, apart of our children's lives and assure that they will always be there. Not only do these things develop character and broaden a childs view of the world, but they also help to reinforce the idea that hard work (practice) is important to success.

7) Maybe we can also stop treating them like pussies by banning dodge ball and suing schools because the football coach cut Billy. We aren't doing our children any service by coddling them and teaching them that they will never have to face competition. Its a tough world out there and if they don't know how to deal with disappointment they are going to be in a lot of trouble. This coddling may also cheat them of the ability to discover what they are truly gifted at, as they are rarely forced to look within themselves .
 

UtahBill

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zk655 said:
7) Maybe we can also stop treating them like pussies by banning dodge ball and suing schools because the football coach cut Billy. We aren't doing our children any service by coddling them and teaching them that they will never have to face competition. Its a tough world out there and if they don't know how to deal with disappointment they are going to be in a lot of trouble. This coddling may also cheat them of the ability to discover what they are truly gifted at, as they are rarely forced to look within themselves .
I can agree with all but the last. The emphasis on sports is way overdone in a lot of schools. Of all the kids who "wouldn't go to school if they couldn't do sports", less than 1% of them will ever earn a dime in pro sports. I think we should cut sports completely in any school that isn't making sure that the jocks on the team can actually pass their tests as often as they pass the ball.
Certainly a junior who is repeating his junior year should be banned from all sports, and maybe even PE.
We aren't helping them have a future by letting them live a fantasy in the present.
 

XShipRider

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JOHNYJ said:
The BlackCaucus has about 44 members only 1 sends his children to public school. It is a proveable fact that many anti-vocucher democrats send their kids to private school. Do I hear a " Do as I say not as I do "
example.
Its O.K. for your kids to go to inferior schools.This same Congressman is using your Tax money that pays him .To send his kids to private school.Sholdn't the operative saying be," Whats good for the goose is good for the gander ". If these schools are good enough for your kids they should be good enogh for his.
I agree to the intent, but not the letter, of your post.

I would bet you a dollar to a donut this holds true for every offspring of
any Congressional member (as long as they live in and around DC anyway).
It's not ONLY black caucus members who are hypocrites.

No, I'm not black.
 
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