Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

[Amelia]

I know that each Democratic candidate would have some people who just won't vote for them. It's going to happen. Insulting the people won't do any good.


Hopefully there aren't too many of those people. It shouldn't take too many extra voters over what Hillary had to let us accomplish the vital goal of getting Trump out. He didn't have a lot of voters he could lose. Which made it really stupid for him to make life even harder for farmers and blue collar workers. But he did. So hopefully enough of the people who voted for him and then got shafted will stay home. They might not switch to voting Democrat, but hopefully enough will stay home. And hopefully enough leftwingers who stayed home or who went green party last time will feel how important it is for them to vote Democrat this time. I think they will.

 

[Linc]

Can't vote for Biden if he's the nominee? Then don't you dare complain about Trump.

Those who didn’t vote for Clinton are the biggest whiners about trump on this board.

 

[Fletch]

You're exactly right. And that's what I'm warning you about. My vote is almost irrelevant. If millions come to the same conclusion, then you have a serious problem.

A very, very preventable problem.

Biden is a paper candidate. Hillary was stronger and still lost. Consider me a canary in the coal mine. Or disregard me and see what happens. He may win and then no harm is done, right? Or my sentiment may be wide-spread, then you're screwed.

I'm not trying to convince a single person not to vote for Biden. I'm just telling you I won't.

And if you notice, no one here is making a case FOR Biden, they are all making a case against Trump. Biden has no constituency. There is no one excited by a Biden candidacy or who supports him based upon some policy idea he has endorsed. He doesnt draw crowds or inspire people with his rhetoric. People support him because they are under the delusion that he can win. As soon as they realize he cant, they will drop him like a rock. But by then it might be too late.

 

[Linc]

I'm not happy to see Biden become the nominee, but for other reasons - mostly strategic.

But unlike you, I will vote for whoever the Dem nominee is - bar none! No other nominee; Dem, Repub, or Indie, could be worse than Trump!

There are two kinds of Faux Bros DEMolition Squad troll farms. All of the newbies dreaming up new ways to divide potential Democratic voters, like this OP; and those from 2016 who will NEVER get over their Faux Burn.

Then we have naive anti-trumpers actually paying attention to known trumpers. Let’s face it, the damage is already done from this lazy/loser left voting malfeasance from anti-trumpers since REDMAP 2010.

I hope they enjoy the McConnell/Trump Federal Judiciary for the next three decades, when you and I will be long gone and no longer able to change their diapers. They deserve it for their voting patterns. **** the Naderites especially, along with the Ru$$ian enabler Jill Stein.

 

[Linc]

What state do ya reside?

Maybe it won't matter ?

Most posters are too afraid to put out their state, let alone their CD. I hope you live in the southern half of your state. :mrgreen: Been to your awesome state’s natural resources many times.

 

[Linc]

Because when you pass on the opportunity to makes things better, they generally get worse.

But this is the kind of thing you need to explain to people who don't understand that giving away the courts for a lifetime defeated many of their policy goals for much of the rest of their lives.

Since they won’t listen to reason, we must assume they lack intelligence and honesty. Whatever their new games are online, it’s obvious their only mission is to re-elect trump.

 

[Dans La Lune]

You represent tens of thousands of voters and America has no bigger problem than Trump.

I represent tens of thousands of people? Please explain that to me. You better hope you're wrong and Biden isn't the nominee.

I agree, I think he was chosen to attract moderates of all colors. You can bet Obama gave him a thorough vetting before he chose him. You may have a list of why he was a mistake, but I'll have to go with Obama's opinion on this.

Obama himself basically flipped a coin, and saw Biden as someone who would NOT be his successor or would shape of the Democratic party after his presidency. In fact, Obama actively encouraged Biden NOT to run. Still trust Obama's opinion, or is that selective?

I wish the theoretically principled world you seem to live in were a reality.

Someone has to have principles. I will not accept one iota of responsibility if Biden loses, and Trump gets another four year. I will in fact say "I told you so", and blame everyone who voted for Biden as the nominee. I will also blame the media for artificially propping Biden up as a candidate.

I assume you didn't vote for Hillary on principle either. I hope you and your friend's 'principles' don't screw us over again. Look at your likely only two choices. Deep down you must know that America will be better served by Biden's principles than a racist authoritarian's 'principles'...

More Bernie supporters voted for Hillary in 2016 than Hillary voters voted for Obama in 2008. That's simply a fact. It's not our fault that Hillary was a weak candidate, and Biden a weaker candidate still.

 

[Irwin Corey]

The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.

It doesn't matter who the Democrats nominate. What matters is that every AmeriCAN that is qualified to vote … VOTES!!!!!!!!!!

IF that happens tRump loses. So VOTE. Let the cards fall where they may. /e x-fingers

It's not our fault that Hillary was a weak candidate, and Biden a weaker candidate still.

I disagree with you, well yes HRC was a Damaged Candidate, but, VP Biden … at hart I think he's a good man that will be so much better a President than tRump that it won't even be close. But that could be said of anybody running or even Donald Duck, yes I know he's not real; don't I wish Donald tRump wasn't real.

 

[Dans La Lune]

It doesn't matter who the Democrats nominate.

Yes it does.

I disagree with you, well yes HRC was a Damaged Candidate, but, VP Biden … at hart I think he's a good man that will be so much better a President than tRump that it won't even be close. But that could be said of anybody running or even Donald Duck, yes I know he's not real; don't I wish Donald tRump wasn't real.

Hillary was a 'damaged candidate' because Republicans took faux scandal mole hills and blew them up. You don't think this same treatment is waiting for Biden? Boy are you in for a surprise.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Yes it does.



Hillary was a 'damaged candidate' because Republicans took faux scandal mole hills and blew them up. You don't think this same treatment is waiting for Biden? Boy are you in for a surprise.

On the surface , I agree with your sentiment. That stated, I also see the flaw of that sentiment.

Last election, I, for the first time in my adult life, left the box for President empty because of my principles. I now see that that was a tragic mistake.

Heres the thing.....I didn't support Hillary in the least, but I now recognize that not getting ANY of what I wanted accomplished is a far worse thing than not getting ALL of what I wanted accomplished.

The problem with the Sanders/Warren/AOC crowd is that they seem perfectly content to fiddle while Rome burns. That is just a piss poor mindset about the whole thing. As someone who actually acted on that mindset, I regret doing so and have for the last 3 years now. I allowed my overinflated sense of principle prevent me from doing the prudent thing, which would have been to do what was needed to make sure Trump didn't get elected. He had no intention of implementing ANYTHING I think is good, and it was really my duty to do what I could to prevent that. If I only agreed with Hillary on 30% of her platform, it was still 30% more than I agreed with Trump on, and that should have been enough.

As the old adage says, cutting off ones nose to spite thier face is a poor decision in the end. Just some friendly advice.

 

[Slavister]

... I care about policy. Biden doesn't support the policies I support.

It does not matter whether Biden supports policies that you support. What matters is whether your policies are more aligned with Trump or Biden.

And with Trump you have the fun wild card of a potential nuclear war if he keeps going down the lane that he is; or a slower death to humans via environmental damage his policies will be doing.

Anyway, most people never get to chose someone who is 70% aligned with their policies. Welcome to USA where we have a 2-party system.

 

[Trump]

It does not matter whether Biden supports policies that you support. What matters is whether your policies are more aligned with Trump or Biden.

And with Trump you have the fun wild card of a potential nuclear war if he keeps going down the lane that he is; or a slower death to humans via environmental damage his policies will be doing.

Anyway, most people never get to chose someone who is 70% aligned with their policies. Welcome to USA where we have a 2-party system.

Biden was VP for this expansion.....

U.S. military forces have been at war for all eight years of Obama’s tenure, the first two-term president with that distinction. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.

just saying

 

[lwf]

I can and will complain about both. Just as I'd assume you'd complain if Biden turned out to be a terrible president. The burden isn't on me to support Biden, the burden is on me to stop Biden because he's the weakest candidate to go up against Trump. The calculation for Biden is everyone coalescing around Biden once he wins the nomination. It didn't work for Hillary, who I voted for, and it won't work for Biden if its a tight race.

It didn't happen for Hillary. Record numbers of democrats defected and voted 3rd party because she was a weak candidate, like you are proposing if Biden is selected. That's why she lost. It did happen for Trump, however. Republicans joined forces and locked arms around their candidate regardless of how distasteful they found him. And it worked.

I don't fault you for voting your conscience. But American democracy is winner take all. A 3rd party vote in 2020 is a vote for four more years of Trump.

 

[BrotherFease]

It didn't happen for Hillary. Record numbers of democrats defected and voted 3rd party because she was a weak candidate, like you are proposing if Biden is selected. That's why she lost.

No. I don't agree with that.

Clinton lost because she played to win the national popular vote rather than the electoral college, you know the one that actually counts.

Clinton won the popular vote by about 2.6 million, but didn't really campaign in the rust belt states. She assumed, it would swing toward her like what happened with the previous Democrat Presidents for the past 21 years.

 

[BrotherFease]

It does not matter whether Biden supports policies that you support. What matters is whether your policies are more aligned with Trump or Biden.

Your commentary is correct. It's about which candidate you most closely align with. For liberals, I don't really see the problem with Biden. If he's President, I see him putting on liberal justices onto the supreme court and signing off on pretty much every single liberal legislation coming across his desk.

Getting huffy over Biden's suggestion that poor communities need more social workers seems a bit silly.

 

[BrotherFease]

It does not matter whether Biden supports policies that you support. What matters is whether your policies are more aligned with Trump or Biden.

Your commentary is correct. It's about which candidate you most closely align with. For liberals, I don't really see the problem with Biden. If he's President, I see him putting on liberal justices onto the supreme court and signing off on pretty much every single liberal legislation coming across his desk.

Getting huffy over Biden's suggestion that poor communities need more social workers seems a bit silly.

 

[Fletch]

Imagine the anguish for never-trump Republicans such as myself. I feel a genuine loyalty to my party and conservative beliefs and I've voted red in every election since Ronald Reagan in 1980. 2016 was the first time I didn't just vote down the party line as an option, I voted for all Republicans and wrote in Cruz. Admittedly, I am much more of a centrist on many issues but still consider myself a conservative. I now sit back and watch the orange buffoon we have leading my beloved party and can't believe what I'm seeing, both from him and that small devoted core of his that can justify everything he does while they criticize others for doing far less. They can actually support a man that has openly and publicly lied to them on the same level as Bill Clinton's "I did not have relations with that woman" comment to congress along with countless other lies and then use "whataboutism" as an excuse.

I did not and will not vote for Trump, I will hold out for a primary candidate although it doesn't look likely. In the absence of one I will vote for a Dem this cycle for president as I feel any change from Trump will have far less long term damage done to our great nation.

I think back to the times I've been fortunate enough to sit and talk with Mitt over the years and feel very sad for what could have been.

Your post makes no sense. You claim to be a conservative but will vote for a left wing kook if thats who the dems put up? Tell me what policies Trump is pursuing that you disagree with. Is it tax cuts you disagree with? Reducing regulations? Improving trade agreements? Border security? Conservative judges? You claim to be a conservative then declare that you are going to vote against the most conservative president we have ever had. Thats insane.

 

[OscarLevant]

The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.

Don't fret Elizabeth Warren will be the nominee

 

[Perotista]

The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.

I'm just the opposite. I couldn't vote for Clinton, ended up voting third party against both Clinton and Trump. I wanted that vote officially registered as being anti Trump and anti Clinton. Now I would vote for Biden against Trump. Some others, no way, third party once again. Whether or not I vote for a democrat or third party all depends on who the Democrats nominate.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

The OP is yanking your chain people.. He didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 and he has NO intention of voting for ANY Democrat in 2020.

 

[Luther]

It didn't happen for Hillary. Record numbers of democrats defected and voted 3rd party because she was a weak candidate, like you are proposing if Biden is selected. That's why she lost. It did happen for Trump, however. Republicans joined forces and locked arms around their candidate regardless of how distasteful they found him. And it worked.

I don't fault you for voting your conscience. But American democracy is winner take all. A 3rd party vote in 2020 is a vote for four more years of Trump.

Record numbers of democrats defected and voted 3rd party because she was a weak candidate,

And.... welcome Trump buddy!

 

[Obscurity]

I can't vote for Biden willingly, but I will if he is the pick.

Thing is, if you want authenticity, you go with Bernie. Warren, while I'd prefer her over Biden, is a reptile who is engaging corporate interests behind the scenes, and is uncomfortable simply being honest. Bernie is not that. Bernie tells the truth. Yes, you will pay less over all, more in taxes, but less overall for MFA. He doesn't shy away from difficult conversations.

This is what I like about Bernie. He cuts through the bull****.

Sanders is authentic. He believes in what he is fighting for. Biden? Warren? If you court DC insiders behind the scenes, you are not my type of leader.

Sanders' authenticity, honesty, earnestness. That's how you WIN.

 

[Greenbeard]

Thing is, if you want authenticity, you go with Bernie. Warren, while I'd prefer her over Biden, is a reptile who is engaging corporate interests behind the scenes, and is uncomfortable simply being honest. Bernie is not that. Bernie tells the truth. Yes, you will pay less over all, more in taxes, but less overall for MFA. He doesn't shy away from difficult conversations.

This is what I like about Bernie. He cuts through the bull****.

Promising everyone they're going to pay less is not a difficult conversation. Talking about how that could be achieved is the difficult conversation. Based on what we've seen so far, there's no evidence Bernie is willing to have the difficult conversations on where his promised savings come from; quite the contrary, actually (e.g., Bernie Sanders decries planned closing of Philadelphia hospital ).

 

[Obscurity]

Promising everyone they're going to pay less is not a difficult conversation. Talking about how that could be achieved is the difficult conversation. Based on what we've seen so far, there's no evidence Bernie is willing to have the difficult conversations on where his promised savings come from; quite the contrary, actually (e.g., Bernie Sanders decries planned closing of Philadelphia hospital ).

No, having the guts to say "You will pay more in taxes but no premiums, co-payments, deductibles, etc" is the honest way to have this conversation.

Sanders TALKS about HOW this will be achieved. His plans lay it out in detail; increased taxes, removal of tax breaks for the rich and corporations, etc.

Only an ideologue thinks Sanders' plan is untenable. What's untenable is Joe Biden's plan, which is the ACA, which we all know is a total joke and a right wing bill.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Would any self-respecting 'liberal/progressive' vote for a President Joe Manchin if it came down to him and Trump? He's slightly more tolerable than Trump. Go ahead and tell me you would vote for Manchin and not savage the party for putting up such a horrible alternative.