• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Voted for Clinton, can't vote for Biden

Dans La Lune

New Killer Star
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
1,405
Location
One Night in Bangkok
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.
 

Winston

IV Disinfectant User
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
14,674
Reaction score
9,717
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.
Hello, I'm a big supporter of DSA politics as well, I did not vote for Clinton, but, I will probably end up voting for Biden in the general election, if he is the nominee. The country can't stomach another 4 years of Federalist Society judges being placed on the bench. And you can bet your ass that war with Iran will be off to the races come Jan. 2021, if Trump is reelected.

Biden's incoherent rambling where he conflates poor people with black people in want of a decent phonograph, was extremely nauseating. If Democrats are stuck on stupid and nominate Joe ****ing Biden, I will have to go off the grid for the duration of the campaign, as I will NOT be able to watch or listen to Biden campaign and still support him. So, my best advice is to pretend you know nothing about politics or policy and rather than listen to anything Biden is saying, just follow your favorite team during the MLB season and poke your head in the voting booth to cast a vote to prevent the grave digger of American democracy (Mitch McConnell) from fulfilling his destiny.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
48,294
Reaction score
36,396
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.
I'm not happy to see Biden become the nominee, but for other reasons - mostly strategic.

But unlike you, I will vote for whoever the Dem nominee is - bar none! No other nominee; Dem, Repub, or Indie, could be worse than Trump!
 

SoCal

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
2,591
Reaction score
1,091
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
...His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can...
I'm sure you'll sleep well at night knowing that you've helped keep that racist out of the WH. Look at how well Don has treated people of color for three years. Do you believe that our first black president's choice of Biden for VP, was a mistake and he should have picked Numnuts?

Two choices, which one, it's such a difficult decision. Are you located in Moscow or Alabama?
 

Dans La Lune

New Killer Star
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
1,405
Location
One Night in Bangkok
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
I'm sure you'll sleep well at night knowing that you've helped keep that racist out of the WH.
If my vote is the deciding factor, America has bigger problems than Trump.

Look at how well Don has treated people of color for three years.
Yes, it's terrible

Do you believe that our first black president's choice of Biden for VP, was a mistake and he should have picked Numnuts?
Biden wasn't chosen by Obama to get black voters, he was chosen to get white voters. Yes, Biden was a mistake and I can give you a laundry list of reasons why.

Two choices, which one, it's such a difficult decision. Are you located in Moscow or Alabama?
I'm putting all my eggs in the basket of 'Anyone but Biden' for the Democratic nomination. If that fails, and I just sign up out of party loyalty, then I was never sincere in the first place.

Sorry, you can't guilt me into voting for Biden. Lay your burden at someone else's feet.
 

Luckyone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
12,154
Reaction score
3,919
Location
Miami, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.
Biden could be having dementia and in a wheel chair and he would be better than Trump having another 4 years.

Trump is so bad that even ****roaches are thinking of running against him.

****roach2.jpg
 

Dans La Lune

New Killer Star
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
1,405
Location
One Night in Bangkok
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Biden could be having dementia and in a wheel chair and he would be better than Trump having another 4 years.

Trump is so bad that even ****roaches are thinking of running against him.
Except that beyond the rhetoric and incompetence, Trump is basically no worse than a typical modern Republican. He just signs the bills and outsources the judical agenda to the Federalist Society. And I have bad news for Democrats, that ship has already sailed.

Biden thinks Dick Cheney, Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence are perfectly fine and reasonable people to deal with. He effectively made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent, and told a room full of billionaires that nothing will fundamentally change for them if he's elected.

I'm not the kind of voter Biden is trying to reach. And I can make an intellectual argument that Biden wouldn't be that much better on the policy. So... I'm totally missing the hook that would get me in his team.

If the threat of Trump is so grave, why is Biden even among the top three? I didn't put him there.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
38,445
Reaction score
21,439
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Can't vote for Biden if he's the nominee? Then don't you dare complain about Trump.
 

Rogue Valley

Good Trouble
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
52,909
Reaction score
37,274
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Sorry, you can't guilt me into voting for Biden. Lay your burden at someone else's feet.
The only burden is offsetting voters like you at the polling station.
 

Luckyone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
12,154
Reaction score
3,919
Location
Miami, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Except that beyond the rhetoric and incompetence, Trump is basically no worse than a typical modern Republican. He just signs the bills and outsources the judical agenda to the Federalist Society. And I have bad news for Democrats, that ship has already sailed.

Biden thinks Dick Cheney, Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence are perfectly fine and reasonable people to deal with. He effectively made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent, and told a room full of billionaires that nothing will fundamentally change for them if he's elected.

I'm not the kind of voter Biden is trying to reach. And I can make an intellectual argument that Biden wouldn't be that much better on the policy. So... I'm totally missing the hook that would get me in his team.

If the threat of Trump is so grave, why is Biden even among the top three? I didn't put him there.
I totally disagree with the bolded statement. Trump is so much worse than a normal Republican. He is totally incompetent, surrounds himself with "yes" men that follow everything he says, cares not all for other people (Biden is just the opposite), he never reads (to learn from the mistakes of others) and cannot ever be better since he considers that he never makes mistakes. Such a person cannot even hit the lottery once is a blue moon.

Biden has principles, morals, ethics and humanity meaning that anything his age or his views causes a problem can be corrected. Trump is totally the opposite and his mistakes will never be corrected.

Nonetheless, I have a strong feeling that Warren is going to get the nomination and that she will be our first female president, so stop worrying.
 

MovingPictures

WE'LL DO IT LIVE!
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
12,246
Reaction score
9,798
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Except that beyond the rhetoric and incompetence, Trump is basically no worse than a typical modern Republican. He just signs the bills and outsources the judical agenda to the Federalist Society. And I have bad news for Democrats, that ship has already sailed.

Biden thinks Dick Cheney, Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence are perfectly fine and reasonable people to deal with. He effectively made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent, and told a room full of billionaires that nothing will fundamentally change for them if he's elected.

I'm not the kind of voter Biden is trying to reach. And I can make an intellectual argument that Biden wouldn't be that much better on the policy. So... I'm totally missing the hook that would get me in his team.

If the threat of Trump is so grave, why is Biden even among the top three? I didn't put him there.
Try this.

If Trump gets another four years he WILL get to fill Ginsburg and Breyer's seats, and then even Roberts will be unable to stop an overturning of Roe, and all other kinds of civil right cases they don't like.

That's one really good reason.

BTW, if Trump gets those two court picks then you can count on the SCOTUS striking down every progressive law passed.
 

eman623

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
4,155
Reaction score
1,470
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances.
I can sympathize with you. As an actual conservative I couldn't vote for Trump in 2016. I wrote-in Evan McMullen. I won't say "never", but It's extremely unlikely I will vote for Trump in 2020 either.

I have the luxury of being able to cast a vote knowing it will make absolutely no difference. I live in California which will go for the Dem candidate as surely as the sun rises in the east.

This is not brain surgery. In an election pick the candidate who best matches your politics and who you think will do the best job. Simple. Cast your vote for that person and ignore what anyone else says. They only get to cast their vote. Not yours.
 

Fletch

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
34,954
Reaction score
16,102
Location
Mentor Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
If the threat of Trump is so grave, why is Biden even among the top three? I didn't put him there.
Thats really a great question. Trump is a racist, fascist, traitorous, destructive monster and who do the dems set up to slay him? Joe Biden??? :lamo
 

Dans La Lune

New Killer Star
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
1,405
Location
One Night in Bangkok
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Can't vote for Biden if he's the nominee? Then don't you dare complain about Trump.
I can and will complain about both. Just as I'd assume you'd complain if Biden turned out to be a terrible president. The burden isn't on me to support Biden, the burden is on me to stop Biden because he's the weakest candidate to go up against Trump. The calculation for Biden is everyone coalescing around Biden once he wins the nomination. It didn't work for Hillary, who I voted for, and it won't work for Biden if its a tight race.

If you want my vote, try earning it. I'm not a party loyalist, I care about policy. Biden doesn't support the policies I support. So again, lay your dead calf at someone else's feet if Biden loses.
 

eman623

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
4,155
Reaction score
1,470
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No American will cast a vote in the 2020 election without some other American hating him for it.
 

Dans La Lune

New Killer Star
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
1,405
Location
One Night in Bangkok
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Thats really a great question. Trump is a racist, fascist, traitorous, destructive monster and who do the dems set up to slay him? Joe Biden??? :lamo
EXACTLY.

Why did we go through 3-4 years of Trump to end up with Biden, someone who is demonstrably worse than the candidate who lost to Trump in 2016?

This is actually among the strongest field of candidates the Democrats have EVER had. Why do we get stuck with a known political loser like Biden? And by loser, I mean someone who simply can't win elections.
 

Surrealistik

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
3,147
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.
Hello, I'm a big supporter of DSA politics as well, I did not vote for Clinton, but, I will probably end up voting for Biden in the general election, if he is the nominee. The country can't stomach another 4 years of Federalist Society judges being placed on the bench. And you can bet your ass that war with Iran will be off to the races come Jan. 2021, if Trump is reelected.

Biden's incoherent rambling where he conflates poor people with black people in want of a decent phonograph, was extremely nauseating. If Democrats are stuck on stupid and nominate Joe ****ing Biden, I will have to go off the grid for the duration of the campaign, as I will NOT be able to watch or listen to Biden campaign and still support him. So, my best advice is to pretend you know nothing about politics or policy and rather than listen to anything Biden is saying, just follow your favorite team during the MLB season and poke your head in the voting booth to cast a vote to prevent the grave digger of American democracy (Mitch McConnell) from fulfilling his destiny.
This pretty much summarizes my feelings (Winston's post).

I actually didn't see his insanely racist gaffe on my first viewing because I was in the washroom at the time, so I thought he committed no fatal errors despite having a stumbling debate (the record player quip and no one should be in jail for a non-violent crime were absurd but borderline passable, among others), but PowerRob brought this to my attention and since then, yeah, I feel he had another disastrous night that I can't help but feel his supporters in the media and otherwise are desperately trying to paper over.

His brain is melting, with all due respect. He forgot Obama's name several times; his best friend and the guy he worked with closely day in and day out for 8 years; that's not a gaffe, that's a sign of dementia. I'd be unpleasantly surprised if he can keep it together long and well enough to get the nomination, but if he does, god help us.
 
Last edited:

Dans La Lune

New Killer Star
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,870
Reaction score
1,405
Location
One Night in Bangkok
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Try this.

If Trump gets another four years he WILL get to fill Ginsburg and Breyer's seats, and then even Roberts will be unable to stop an overturning of Roe, and all other kinds of civil right cases they don't like.

That's one really good reason.

BTW, if Trump gets those two court picks then you can count on the SCOTUS striking down every progressive law passed.
Yes, that argument swayed me last time and Trump still got two SCOTUS picks. I suspect Trump will actually get three SCOTUS appointments before this is done (very unlikely RBG will survive). And the lower courts have already been transformed for generations. Sorry, our salvation is not in the courts.

I'm done with that argument.
 

Surrealistik

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
3,147
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Except that beyond the rhetoric and incompetence, Trump is basically no worse than a typical modern Republican. He just signs the bills and outsources the judical agenda to the Federalist Society. And I have bad news for Democrats, that ship has already sailed.

Biden thinks Dick Cheney, Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence are perfectly fine and reasonable people to deal with. He effectively made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent, and told a room full of billionaires that nothing will fundamentally change for them if he's elected.

I'm not the kind of voter Biden is trying to reach. And I can make an intellectual argument that Biden wouldn't be that much better on the policy. So... I'm totally missing the hook that would get me in his team.

If the threat of Trump is so grave, why is Biden even among the top three? I didn't put him there.
Because the wealthy and powerful of the party want continuity, and the status quo with a softer veneer; it's that simple. He's the anti-change, pro-wealthy candidate of the Democrats, its establishment personified in every way, including its age and decline.
 

itstony

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
623
Reaction score
420
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Imagine the anguish for never-trump Republicans such as myself. I feel a genuine loyalty to my party and conservative beliefs and I've voted red in every election since Ronald Reagan in 1980. 2016 was the first time I didn't just vote down the party line as an option, I voted for all Republicans and wrote in Cruz. Admittedly, I am much more of a centrist on many issues but still consider myself a conservative. I now sit back and watch the orange buffoon we have leading my beloved party and can't believe what I'm seeing, both from him and that small devoted core of his that can justify everything he does while they criticize others for doing far less. They can actually support a man that has openly and publicly lied to them on the same level as Bill Clinton's "I did not have relations with that woman" comment to congress along with countless other lies and then use "whataboutism" as an excuse.

I did not and will not vote for Trump, I will hold out for a primary candidate although it doesn't look likely. In the absence of one I will vote for a Dem this cycle for president as I feel any change from Trump will have far less long term damage done to our great nation.

I think back to the times I've been fortunate enough to sit and talk with Mitt over the years and feel very sad for what could have been.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
38,445
Reaction score
21,439
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I can and will complain about both. Just as I'd assume you'd complain if Biden turned out to be a terrible president. The burden isn't on me to support Biden, the burden is on me to stop Biden because he's the weakest candidate to go up against Trump. The calculation for Biden is everyone coalescing around Biden once he wins the nomination. It didn't work for Hillary, who I voted for, and it won't work for Biden if its a tight race.

If you want my vote, try earning it. I'm not a party loyalist, I care about policy. Biden doesn't support the policies I support. So again, lay your dead calf at someone else's feet if Biden loses.
If you will sit at home, it's a vote for Trump. Wanting to complain is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's that simple.

Don't run from responsibility. If you want to be able to pat yourself on the back for standing on principle, then you have to own it: meaning you have to own the fact that not voting Dem in 2020 will be Trump vote. That's just mathematics applied to our current two party system. I had to argue with plenty of "Bernie Bro" friends who refused to vote Hillary then whined about Trump. Nah, do that and you don't get to talk to me about how you're all principled for not voting for a lesser of two evils - not unless you accept Trump is partially your responsibility. If you want to stand on principle, you have to accept the results. Otherwise it isn't a principle at all. It's a talking point. A fluff piece.

And yes, voting 3p or not voting is one way to try to fight the two party system. But you have to own it.

Principles cost a lot, and for good reason.






:shrug:
 

MovingPictures

WE'LL DO IT LIVE!
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
12,246
Reaction score
9,798
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Yes, that argument swayed me last time and Trump still got two SCOTUS picks. I suspect Trump will actually get three SCOTUS appointments before this is done (very unlikely RBG will survive). And the lower courts have already been transformed for generations. Sorry, our salvation is not in the courts.

I'm done with that argument.
Yes, because people with your mentality allowed them to be because Clinton wasn't their first choice.
 

JackA

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
6,916
Reaction score
2,930
Location
Richmond, VA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The 2016 election was a dumpster fire. I almost didn't vote, but ended up pulling for Clinton because she signed on to much of the platform Bernie wrote. And for a few other reasons.

I can't and won't vote for Biden under any circumstances. He's demonstrably worse than Clinton in every way. And yes, while Biden is better than Trump, the calculation is not sufficient to get me on Biden's team. What sealed it for me was the last debate.

His suggestion that black people don't know how to raise their children was just out-and-out racist, and his answer from then veered into an incoherent ramble on Venezuela. If this is the best Dems can do, I'm out. Let the moderates save the country from Trump, if they can.

Biden's incoherent ramble...

...

Nina Turner's epic response.
Biden surely doesn't believe "that black people don't know how to raise their children." Don't lend coherence to an incoherent remark, then use it as excuse to sit out the election and thereby support a guy who probably does believe it. Biden's strongest supporters are black people. I think they probably have a better reading on him than your post indicates you have.
 

MovingPictures

WE'LL DO IT LIVE!
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
12,246
Reaction score
9,798
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
If you will sit at home, it's a vote for Trump. Wanting to complain is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's that simple.

Don't run from responsibility. If you want to be able to pat yourself on the back for standing on principle, then you have to own it: meaning you have to own the fact that not voting Dem in 2020 will be Trump vote. That's just mathematics applied to our current two party system. I had to argue with plenty of "Bernie Bro" friends who refused to vote Hillary then whined about Trump. Nah, do that and you don't get to talk to me about how you're all principled for not voting for a lesser of two evils - not unless you accept Trump is partially your responsibility. If you want to stand on principle, you have to accept the results. Otherwise it isn't a principle at all. It's a talking point. A fluff piece.

And yes, voting 3p or not voting is one way to try to fight the two party system. But you have to own it.

Principles cost a lot, and for good reason.






:shrug:
It's the height of recklessness.

Biden is a conservative Democrat, who am no fan of policy speaking.

That having been said there is a galaxy of difference between him and Trump.

1. Biden cares about people with pre-existing conditions, Trump doesn't.
2. Biden wants to fix our infrastructure, Trump doesn't.
3. Biden is a secularist at heart, while Trump is owned by the Christian right.
4. Biden wants to protect Roe, while Trump wants to help overturn it.
5. Biden wants to ban assault weapons and reform gun laws, while Trump works for the NRA.

So, you see there's pretty ****ing significant difference between the two folks, and this is coming from a Warren man.
 
Top Bottom