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Vote extended....

M14 Shooter said:
This is partisan rhetoric talking, taken directly from the DNC playdook.
The troops dont see things the way the typical anti-Bush, anti-war (because its led by Bush) liberal Democrat sees it -- the troops as a whole believe in what they're doing s much as the troops in WW2 belived in what they were doing.
As such, your argument here isnt relevant - and my point stands.

And, just who are YOU to speak on the behalf of the troops.

As I have stated earlier, I do not claim to speak on the behalf of every troop. That is more than I can say for your arrogant claims.

As for how you think the troops view the war... that is exactly it, how you think the troops view the war, nothing more. You can say, well I know guys, but that means just as much to me coming from you as it does to you coming from me. Case closed there.

If you truly think that all the military forces minus myself and "my friends", you are truly mistaken. As I stated in another thread somewhere..
Soldiers are citizens the same as everyone in the country. They have many differing political views, and are not brainwashed as my conservative friends on this site would make people think. No, im not calling the troops who are conservative brainwashed, but, in all honesty, what is the chance of 1.25 million people who all happen to share the same job all happen to share the same political view? Not likely... if they did... it WOULD be brainwashed into them.

So your statements about the military's political views have no more credibility than my own.
 
Navy Pride said:
He is a Corpsman in the Navy saving Marines lives......How dare you degrade his service.........No true veteran of Iraq would ever do that........
OMG! You spend every waking moment degrading John Kerry's service! How's this for Navy Pride?

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26 X World Champs said:
OMG! You spend every waking moment degrading John Kerry's service! How's this for Navy Pride?

r0025.jpg

I have a who box full of medals and a form 80 to prove I earned them......Why doesn't Kerry release his form 80 to proves he deserves his? He has said he would do it but never has............I think we know why don't we................As the CO of a swiftboat he could award himself medals.................Disgusting!!!!!!


JUST RELEASE YOUR FORM 80 IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE KERRY
 
Caine said:
As I have stated earlier, I do not claim to speak on the behalf of every troop. That is more than I can say for your arrogant claims.

So... if you cannot speak 'on behalf' of the troops...
...how is your 'complaint' about this war meaningful?

Your argument is: There is a difference between constant deployments to a war with a meaning that is TRULY protecting us, or stoping genocide of our allies (WW2) and invading on false intelligence, and also trying to use a decades old instance of cruelty to his own people to back that up

For your argument to mean anything, you have to show that the troops, in general, think that, currently, they think the war in Iraq is not protecting us and that we invaded on false intelligence, thus dinstinguishing the war in Iraq from WW2.

As for how you think the troops view the war... that is exactly it, how you think the troops view the war, nothing more. You can say, well I know guys, but that means just as much to me coming from you as it does to you coming from me. Case closed there.
So, you;re admitting that you cannot support your argument that "this war is different".

If so, my statements stand:
God help us if we ever get in a situation where all the troops are deployed for the duration. By your standard, the US military was 'broken' before we got involved in WW2..

Given the whining and complaning we've seen over Iraq, if we're ever forced to fight a war on the scale of WW2, we'll never be able to do it.
 
M14 Shooter said:
If so, my statements stand:
God help us if we ever get in a situation where all the troops are deployed for the duration. By your standard, the US military was 'broken' before we got involved in WW2..

Given the whining and complaning we've seen over Iraq, if we're ever forced to fight a war on the scale of WW2, we'll never be able to do it.

Naw, see the Miltary was actually pretty good Pre-WWII. Smaller, closer to home. Protecting shipping lanes and enforcing embargos was the big concern. woo. Now it's broke, bases in 100 or so countries, garbage wars based on fear of the red-towel-headed boogeymen.

I would surmise most pro-Bush'ers would imagine, in fact the military was "broke" back them. Hell, they blame the limited scope of the military on why we were attacked in the first place. Then came the standing super-army and the Military-Industrial Complex, and it was fixed! ALL Hail the Merchants of DEATH.
 
libertarian_knight said:
Naw, see the Miltary was actually pretty good Pre-WWII. Smaller, closer to home. Protecting shipping lanes and enforcing embargos was the big concern.
I guess what depends on when you mean by "pre-" WW2. The draft started in 1940 and by the time the war started, the US military was strewn all over the Pacific and Atlantic, doing a lot more than 'protecting shipping lanes'.

Now it's broke, bases in 100 or so countries, garbage wars based on fear of the red-towel-headed boogeymen.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "broke".

I would surmise most pro-Bush'ers would imagine, in fact the military was "broke" back them. Hell, they blame the limited scope of the military on why we were attacked in the first place.
You'll note that "broke" in 1941 does not mean the same as "broke" in 2005, as argued by Caine.

Then came the standing super-army and the Military-Industrial Complex, and it was fixed
There has always been a standing army and military-industrial complex.
 
The military, in my opinion, is always "broke", as it is always going through changes.

This is not to be viewed as something negative though.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

The Military is always "fixing" things.
 
M14 Shooter said:
I guess what depends on when you mean by "pre-" WW2. The draft started in 1940 and by the time the war started, the US military was strewn all over the Pacific and Atlantic, doing a lot more than 'protecting shipping lanes'.

I guess that depends on what you mean by "broke".

You'll note that "broke" in 1941 does not mean the same as "broke" in 2005, as argued by Caine.

There has always been a standing army and military-industrial complex.

Doing more, like I said, enforcing embargos. One of the motivations for Japan to attack us.

OK, super-army and MATURED Military Industrial Complex
 
We had a peace time military in 1940 but it was not broke........The only time our military was ever in dire straights is when Clinton stripped it to the bare bone in the nineties but it was not broken....Never has been........
 
Navy Pride said:
We had a peace time military in 1940 but it was not broke........The only time our military was ever in dire straights is when Clinton stripped it to the bare bone in the nineties but it was not broken....Never has been........

The military has been making changes since well before Clinton.
You seem to despise Clinton and bring him up every time something is mentioned. Your arguments are becoming diluted with your hatred for Clinton.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
If the military makes a change, they are fixing a problem, since they are always making changes, they are always fixing problems, and thus, it is broken.

There are many ways to view "broken", your idea of the term and my idea of the term obviously do not match.

And neither your idea, nor my idea are any more true than the other, which Im certain your going to make a comeback that tries to make your idea of "broke" more superior to mine, and attack a democrat, liberal, or Clinton; and praise Bush or another Republican or conservative while doing so.
Your partisanship makes your arguments ineffective, as it shows your blindness.
 
Caine said:
The military has been making changes since well before Clinton.
You seem to despise Clinton and bring him up every time something is mentioned. Your arguments are becoming diluted with your hatred for Clinton.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
If the military makes a change, they are fixing a problem, since they are always making changes, they are always fixing problems, and thus, it is broken.

There are many ways to view "broken", your idea of the term and my idea of the term obviously do not match.

And neither your idea, nor my idea are any more true than the other, which Im certain your going to make a comeback that tries to make your idea of "broke" more superior to mine, and attack a democrat, liberal, or Clinton; and praise Bush or another Republican or conservative while doing so.
Your partisanship makes your arguments ineffective, as it shows your blindness.

Thats true Bush 1 made reasonable cuts when in office and Clinton tripled them.......Guys were forced to retire at 15 years cutting their promised pensions way back................Ships were decommissioned at a record rate causing them to make back to back deployments...............I know I was right in the middle of it......Its one of the main reasons beside "Slick Willie" being a draft dodger that the military will always hold in in disdain.......
 
Navy Pride said:
Thats true Bush 1 made reasonable cuts when in office and Clinton tripled them.......Guys were forced to retire at 15 years cutting their promised pensions way back................Ships were decommissioned at a record rate causing them to make back to back deployments...............I know I was right in the middle of it......Its one of the main reasons beside "Slick Willie" being a draft dodger that the military will always hold in in disdain.......

lol... I knew you were going to attack Clinton... I am a genius.

Do you have credible evidence of this "Draft dodging"?
Im looking for something more than your word.
 
Caine said:
lol... I knew you were going to attack Clinton... I am a genius.

Do you have credible evidence of this "Draft dodging"?
Im looking for something more than your word.

Do you not follow politics at all?
 
Navy Pride said:
Do you not follow politics at all?

You in no way answered my question.
Im waiting...... im not saying your wrong........
I just want to see your view on it, with some bits of credible info where you formed your opinion from.
 
Caine said:
You in no way answered my question.
Im waiting...... im not saying your wrong........
I just want to see your view on it, with some bits of credible info where you formed your opinion from.

Just go to google type in Clinton Draft Dodger Senator Fulbright..........

I guess you have never heard that Clinton dope smoking, womaninzing, draft dodger and unconvicted rapist befor huh? A general in the army actually got fired for saying thet......
 
Navy Pride said:
Just go to google type in Clinton Draft Dodger Senator Fulbright..........

I guess you have never heard that Clinton dope smoking, womaninzing, draft dodger and unconvicted rapist befor huh? A general in the army actually got fired for saying thet......

Clinton/Dope Smoking............Bush/DUI (Which is more life threatening to others?)

Unconvicted Rapist = He wasn't found guilty. Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

Yes, a General got fired for saying that, and many soldiers are getting reprimanded for talking bad about Bush... whats your point?

There are mistakes on both parts and in thier pasts......I think its foolish to argue over it.

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/21360/
 
Caine said:
Clinton/Dope Smoking............Bush/DUI (Which is more life threatening to others?)

Unconvicted Rapist = He wasn't found guilty. Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

Yes, a General got fired for saying that, and many soldiers are getting reprimanded for talking bad about Bush... whats your point?

There are mistakes on both parts and in thier pasts......I think its foolish to argue over it.

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/21360/

Bush admitted his dui..."Slick Willie" didn't enhale......:roll:


When several women accuse you of sexual crimes and knowing "Slick Willie" and keeping his fly up where there is smoke there is fire.......

Sure there are going to be some malcontents but can you give me a link where a General or even a junior officer got fired for saying things like that about President Bush? Otherwise its just your sour grapes.........thanks...

No comment about the draft dodger thingy huh........you must have checked it out...........A president of the U.S. who was a draft dodger.............IN 1996 Senator Dole a decorated hero of the second world war could have been all over him for that but he had to much class and never made it and issue........
 
Navy Pride said:
Bush admitted his dui..."Slick Willie" didn't enhale......:roll:


When several women accuse you of sexual crimes and knowing "Slick Willie" and keeping his fly up where there is smoke there is fire.......

Sure there are going to be some malcontents but can you give me a link where a General or even a junior officer got fired for saying things like that about President Bush? Otherwise its just your sour grapes.........thanks...

Well, ya know, Bush smoked marijuana....he just didn't want to publicly admit it, and criticized Al Gore for being honest about his marijuana use. And then he wants to be a hypocrite and impose longer jail sentences for marijuana users.
 
Stace said:
Well, ya know, Bush smoked marijuana....he just didn't want to publicly admit it, and criticized Al Gore for being honest about his marijuana use. And then he wants to be a hypocrite and impose longer jail sentences for marijuana users.

hmmm, could you provide a link for that? Thank you.....
 
Navy Pride said:
Bush admitted his dui..."Slick Willie" didn't enhale......:roll:


When several women accuse you of sexual crimes and knowing "Slick Willie" and keeping his fly up where there is smoke there is fire.......

Sure there are going to be some malcontents but can you give me a link where a General or even a junior officer got fired for saying things like that about President Bush? Otherwise its just your sour grapes.........thanks...

No comment about the draft dodger thingy huh........you must have checked it out...........A president of the U.S. who was a draft dodger.............IN 1996 Senator Dole a decorated hero of the second world war could have been all over him for that but he had to much class and never made it and issue........

Was anything Clinton did, to "draft dodge" as you put it, illegal????
Or did you get your information from biased views that made it "appear" that he was illegal in his actions.

Do you know that his intent with these actions was to dodge the draft?
 
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