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Violent Arrest of Teacher Caught on Video; Officers Face Investigation

VanceMack said:
Better knowing you lack the capacity to understand simple concepts. Makes it much easier to know how to 'communicate' with you in the future.

FM
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It would help if you weren't too much of an intellectual coward to faithfully represent the facts of the case and take an actual position. When you misrepresent what happened and then refuse to comment honestly on what happened in this case, whether it's an appropriate use of police authority or not, then all I can conclude is you're just a everyday authoritarian who demands instant obedience, or else, and if 'or else' it's no one's fault but the nominally free person whose rights disappear when confronted with a man with a badge.
 
jaeger19 said:
Anti police? I don;t get that. What it means, and I agree that since police ARE agents of the government, that they need to be responsible to the people.. they need to have oversight and be responsible to the governed. They need to be held accountable for their actions.

Instead of getting a blank pass.. "
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Nobody is saying they get a blank pass. Nobody is saying they don't report to the public. My statement is that why should I hate police as "agents of government?" They aren't representing the thing I dislike: big government/overreach of federal government. Police are local. They don't represent that problem. They are just dudes doing an underpaid and important job. They don't write the laws that are the problem. And they don't get to pick and choose what is and is not illegal. That is the people who are actually elected to represent the government.

The police don't represent the public. Your government officials do. The police represent law and order as defined by the people we elect and the laws they pass. So trying to blame police as "agents of overreach" is ridiculous. They weren't the ones writing the bills and passing laws. Remember Truman? The buck stops here. It doesn't stop at LEOs patrolling the streets. It stops at the elected officials.


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.
 
VanceMack said:
You draw some mighty stupid conclusions and you conveniently leave out a lot of steps. YES...he gets shot provided he resists arrest, has a gun in his pocket, and fights to pull said gun.

Geeeeezus....
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Except you SAID in your summation..

"All because he wouldn't give his name".

Thats your summation Vance.. not mine....

ITS YOUR CONCLUSION.. not mine

So calling me a "liar" is uncalled for.
 
blackjack50 said:
Nobody is saying they get a blank pass. Nobody is saying they don't report to the public. My statement is that why should I hate police as "agents of government?" They aren't representing the thing I dislike: big government/overreach of federal government. Police are local. They don't represent that problem. They are just dudes doing an underpaid and important job. They don't write the laws that are the problem. And they don't get to pick and choose what is and is not illegal. That is the people who are actually elected to represent the government.

The police don't represent the public. Your government officials do. The police represent law and order as defined by the people we elect and the laws they pass. So trying to blame police as "agents of overreach" is ridiculous. They weren't the ones writing the bills and passing laws. Remember Truman? The buck stops here. It doesn't stop at LEOs patrolling the streets. It stops at the elected officials.


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.
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First.. I am not sure your point about being local. So what? State and local governments can have overreach as well. Heck.. there are a number of state and local laws that violate peoples rights and end up in the supreme court.

Would you contend that because the DC gun ban was local.. it was okay? I doubt that.

So I don;t see the validity in "well they are local".

And yes the police get to choose what laws they will and will not enforce and on who they enforce them. They get to decide whether they let you off with a warning.. or give you a ticket. They decide whether they go and bust the graduation party in the wealthy neighborhood.. or bust the party on the other side of the tracks. The police DO have a lot of leeway and power in how they handle the public. JUST as the police officer did in this case. HE arrested her. and for what? She ended up in a squad car... that was HIS choice.. from HIS actions.. so saying that the police bear no responsibility because "they don;t make the laws".. is simply not valid either.

Okay... if you say this is an issue of elected officials...

Please tell me which elected official is responsible for the policemans actions in arresting the school teacher because she did not put her feet in the car. Make a logical case that it was because of an elected official and the cop bore no responsibility.
 
apdst said:
Totalitarian regimes started with traffic stops? :lamo
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They start with peoples compliance with government demands for obedience. In most cases it usually starts small and only for a small group or minority.. and people say.. "well they deserve it".. or "well its not me, I have nothing to fear"...

Then eventually they find that they have incrementally lost their freedom to the point where its not just a traffic stop anymore.

That process has happened in history multiple times.
 
jaeger19 said:
They start with peoples compliance with government demands for obedience. In most cases it usually starts small and only for a small group or minority.. and people say.. "well they deserve it".. or "well its not me, I have nothing to fear"...

Then eventually they find that they have incrementally lost their freedom to the point where its not just a traffic stop anymore.

That process has happened in history multiple times.
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No, they start by circumventing the law. Then, they violate the civil rights of the people and use their newfound executive authority to extralegislatively institute their own laws at will.
 
apdst said:
No, they start by circumventing the law. Then, they violate the civil rights of the people and use their newfound executive authority to extralegislatively institute their own laws at will.
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Ahhh no..because THEY WRITE THE LAWS. AND THEY CONTROL THE POLICE THAT ENFORCE THOSE LAWS.

Wow.. that's funny that you think "they circumvent the law".

They don't circumvent the law.. they USE the law.. the MAKE the law.

A good example is in Germany they started with a law preventing Jews from holding civil service jobs. Then there were laws limiting the number of Jews allowed into university.

Then jewish doctors could not be paid by the State insurance fund...
 
jaeger19 said:
Ahhh no..because THEY WRITE THE LAWS. AND THEY CONTROL THE POLICE THAT ENFORCE THOSE LAWS.

Wow.. that's funny that you think "they circumvent the law".

They don't circumvent the law.. they USE the law.. the MAKE the law.

A good example is in Germany they started with a law preventing Jews from holding civil service jobs. Then there were laws limiting the number of Jews allowed into university.

Then jewish doctors could not be paid by the State insurance fund...
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Because the USA is similar to Nazi Germany... :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
Because the USA is similar to Nazi Germany... :lol:
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Well..I think it depends on the time you defined as "Nazi Germany".

But there certainly some similarities between pre War Germany and current US./

Financial crisis and Dissatisfaction with the government's handling of the economy? Check

Disgust and mistrust of the incompetence and ineffectiveness of the current government? Check

Currents of xenophobia and racism? Check

Narcissistic Megalomaniac railing against the "establishment", using racism and xenophobia to his advantage, and promising unilateral decisve action if placed in power? Check.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well..I think it depends on the time you defined as "Nazi Germany".

But there certainly some similarities between pre War Germany and current US./

Financial crisis and Dissatisfaction with the government's handling of the economy? Check

Disgust and mistrust of the incompetence and ineffectiveness of the current government? Check

Currents of xenophobia and racism? Check

Narcissistic Megalomaniac railing against the "establishment", using racism and xenophobia to his advantage, and promising unilateral decisve action if placed in power? Check.
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There are similarities between most things... resorting to finding some between us and the darkest times in human history is a logical fallacy. If you were to say what got us here as well that would be different. Failed policies by Obama leading to financial crisis and Dissatisfaction with the government's handling of the economy, disgust and mistrust of the incompetence and ineffectiveness of the current government, etc. then that might fly but when using it to just paint Trump as Hitler that is a fail.
 
sangha said:
No context was left out or changed
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the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning
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Must be hard to defend a lie. But continue to try. You cut my quote down to remove context. Then you lied about it.


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.
 
Bodhisattva said:
There are similarities between most things... resorting to finding some between us and the darkest times in human history is a logical fallacy. If you were to say what got us here as well that would be different. Failed policies by Obama leading to financial crisis and Dissatisfaction with the government's handling of the economy, disgust and mistrust of the incompetence and ineffectiveness of the current government, etc. then that might fly but when using it to just paint Trump as Hitler that is a fail.
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Yeah.. you might want to do a little more reading on US history before having this discussion. The economic downturn and the events that occurred leading to it.. happened well before Obama. Wage stagnation and inequity have been growing in the US for quite some time as well. Americans have been working harder, working longer, and not seeing much in the way of getting ahead. And the frustration with the actions of government are seated deeper than Obama as well.. our Congress has "enjoyed" some of the lowest approval ratings in history.
We also have fear. racism and xenophobic currents running and these have been played to as well.

Which sets the stage for a hitler type. A megalomaniac with narcissistic personality disorder.. who uses racism, xenophobia to his advantage and promises unilateral, decisive action if placed in power.
Now.. that is a similarity to the situation of Germany and the rise of Hitler.

Trump doing the evil that Hitler did? Seems very unlikely... but Trump raising to power on his personality, and promises.. during a time of dissatisfaction, fear, and economic instability? .....

Of course.. when it comes right down to it.. who knows? I seriously doubt those listening to Hitler on October 16, 1919 foresaw the events that would eventually unfold on September 1 1939.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah.. you might want to do a little more reading on US history before having this discussion. The economic downturn and the events that occurred leading to it.. happened well before Obama. Wage stagnation and inequity have been growing in the US for quite some time as well. Americans have been working harder, working longer, and not seeing much in the way of getting ahead. And the frustration with the actions of government are seated deeper than Obama as well.. our Congress has "enjoyed" some of the lowest approval ratings in history.
We also have fear. racism and xenophobic currents running and these have been played to as well.

Which sets the stage for a hitler type. A megalomaniac with narcissistic personality disorder.. who uses racism, xenophobia to his advantage and promises unilateral, decisive action if placed in power.
Now.. that is a similarity to the situation of Germany and the rise of Hitler.

Trump doing the evil that Hitler did? Seems very unlikely... but Trump raising to power on his personality, and promises.. during a time of dissatisfaction, fear, and economic instability? .....

Of course.. when it comes right down to it.. who knows? I seriously doubt those listening to Hitler on October 16, 1919 foresaw the events that would eventually unfold on September 1 1939.
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Sounds good...
 
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