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Violence Erupts in Egypt

iacardsfan

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http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/05/world/meast/egypt-coup/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Violence erupted here Friday as supporters of Mohamed Morsy turned out en masse, calling for his restoration to the presidency two days after his ouster in a military coup.
Five Morsy supporters were shot dead by the army in front of the headquarters of the Republican Guard headquarters, where the ousted president was reported to be detained, the Muslim Brotherhood's political wing -- the Freedom and Justice Party -- said Friday night.

What a mockery of the Democratic process. First, there is a coup of the first democratically elected leader Egypt. Then two days later, after claiming the person that they ousted from power was oppressive and bad for the Egyptian people, they go and gun down people that oppose them. Extremely hypocritical of them, what are the chances the next leader is not going to oppress the people too? Obviously it is ok to kill political enemies. The Obama Administration needs to make a point that no matter how bad the leader is (Morsy) coups are not condoned. Take for example this: Obama's ratings are down and he is certainly not the savoir the Country envisioned, let's just have the military go in, take him out of power then shoot anybody that disagrees. We are sending the message that this is acceptable behavior if we don't stop the aid to the new Egyptian government. My disappointment with the Obama Administration has hit an all time high. It is astonishing that people fighting oppression are okay with killing opposition. What a messed up world.
 

Morrigi

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Well, it's certainly gonna be interesting how many presidents they go through this year.

EDIT: It's possible to become MORE disappointed with the Obama administration? News to me :p
 

iacardsfan

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Well, it's certainly gonna be interesting how many presidents they go through this year.

EDIT: It's possible to become MORE disappointed with the Obama administration? News to me :p
Fair enough on the Obama point.
 

Wiseone

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I gotta wonder how many Republicans are going to become pro-Morsi soon, or should I say:

Obama was wrong to support the protests that lead to the elections that resulted in Morsi because he's a Muslim Brotherhood member, which is bad, however he should support keeping Morsi in power because he was elected democratically in an election we didn't support and even though he's a bad guy.

Or something...
 

jmotivator

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Democracy is great, but the people wanted Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood in power even less than they wanted Mubarak.

Unfortunately for Morsi (and fortunately for everyone else) he had all the patience of a teenage boy on prom night and just took it too fast. Morsi is done in by his premature theocratization.
 

Wiseone

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The problem is now that you've basically divided the country into two factions that now hate each other to the core, those whom supported Morsi and all the other groups who didn't.

Even if the military retains order, which will be harder and harder the more people are killed, and manages to conduct new elections, its going to be hard for those elections to be seen as legitmate by the people. After all the only reason they'll have these new elections is because they threw out the last elected guy, and I wouldn't blame Morsi supporters or the Muslim Brotherhood from feeling cheated out of its electorcal victory and basically pushed out of the electoral process. All this is not good for a democracy to function.

Of course Morsi was an stupid leader as well, he did not respect the complaints of his opposition, threw out the Constitution numerous times, was more interested in Islamic reforms that actually problem solving like the jobless rate, and he silenced and repressed his opponents. The man and the Muslim Brotherhood clearly did not understand what it meant to run a democracy, and now they've paid for it but even more importantly the people have paid for it.

Now a great gap has been created in their society, and damned if I know how its going to be healed so everyone is satisfied with their electoral system, the violence and turmoil can stop, and Egypt can get back to addressing the numerous problems it faces.
 

Higgins86

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Morsi gained power by promising many things and failed to deliver. He was a puppet and sadly I feel the show is just starting
 

MMC

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Well lets not forget the Morsi supporters going out and shooting people too. Or beating them up. The Egyptian Military told them they wouldn't put up with it.

Moreover all the MB was doing and is doing is using Democracy.....to get them into power so they can set up what they have always wanted.

Again to think that the MB stands for Democracy is a joke. Maybe they should pull back all of their people they have spread over the ME and the US to go back and help their brothers out. This way we can try and get them all in one place. Then solve the problem.
 

MMC

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Islamists: Egypt army enemy after deadly clashes.....



Egyptian soldiers and police clashed with Islamists protesting the military's ouster of the president in bloodshed that claimed at least 40 lives, officials and witnesses said, and plunged the divided country deeper into crisis with calls by the Muslim Brotherhood's political party for all-out rebellion against the army.

The carnage outside the Republican Guard building in Cairo — where toppled President Mohammed Morsi was first held last week — marked the single biggest death toll since massive protests forced Morsi's government from power and brought in an interim civilian administration.

Even before all the bodies were counted, there were conflicting accounts on how the violence began — with Morsi's backers saying it was an unprovoked attack and the military saying they came under assault first.

But the violence is almost certain to draw sharper battle lines between Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood and their opponents who claim Morsi squandered his 2012 election victory and betrayed the democratic spirit of Egypt's 2011 revolution by seeking only to bolster his and the Brotherhood's grip on the state.

Soon after the attack, however, the Al-Nour party, an ultraconservative party that had been talking to the new government about participating in the political process, announced it was withdrawing its support for the transition plan in response to the "massacre.".....snip~

I don't think anyone is surprised that the MB would respond with Violence. While trying to say they are standing for Democracy. What is quite amusing is any who listen to what the MB have to say in the First place. Especially news sources. While it is understandable to get their side of the story. But accepting what they say as the truth, and without question. Would be ridiculous.
 

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Three words: Blood, tree, liberty! Nuff said!

Tim-
 

TheNextEra

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The one the MB was trying to take away, via Morsi's policies, from the NONE despots living in Egypt!

Tim-
Sorry to say, but neither side has any interest in liberty. Period. No matter which side wins, it will just oppress the other and liberty. So to root for one is pretty silly.
 

Hicup

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Sorry to say, but neither side has any interest in liberty. Period. No matter which side wins, it will just oppress the other and liberty. So to root for one is pretty silly.
Well, I'd say that the side that shoots for a form of liberty in governance that is devoid of religious oversight, would be a good start, and well on their way out of despotism.

Tim-
 

MMC

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Yep, it's always good when the military starts to shoot demonstrators. :roll:

Dozens killed as Egyptian military clashes with pro-Morsy protesters - CNN.com

What liberty are you referring to?
Sure.....when they are the MB and they try to storm a Building and open fire on the Military and the Police. Then turn around and say the Egyptian military did this while the Demonstrators were in Prayers.

Course whoever was talking for the MB forgot about those in the Military and the Police that were in their prayers at the same time the so called Demonstrators were.


Egypt: Gunfire at military building leaves 40 dead.....

Egyptian soldiers and police opened fire on supporters of the ousted president early Monday in violence that left at least 40 people killed, including one officer, outside a military building in Cairo where demonstrators had been holding a sit-in, government officials and witnesses said.

There were conflicting accounts of how the violence began. A military spokesman said gunmen attempted to storm the building at dawn, prompting the clashes. Supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi, meanwhile, said the security forces fired on hundreds of protesters as they performed early morning prayers. It was not immediately possible to reconcile the two accounts.

Health Ministry spokesman Khaled el-Khatib said initial reports also indicated at least 322 were wounded, although he gave no details on the circumstances of the bloodshed.

Egyptian state TV showed images provided by the military of the scene of the sit-in, where scores of protesters were pelting troops with rocks, and setting tires on fire, as troops dressed in riot gear and carrying shields formed lines a few meters (yards) away.

Military spokesman Col. Ahmed Mohammed Ali said initial information indicates that gunmen affiliated with the Brotherhood tried to storm the Republican Guard building shortly after dawn, firing live ammunition and throwing firebombs from a nearby mosque and rooftops. One police officer on the scene was killed, he said.

A statement by the armed forces published on the state news agency said "an armed terrorist group" tried to storm the Republican Guard building, killing one officer and seriously wounding six. The statement said the forces arrested 200 attackers, armed with guns and ammunition.

Morsi supporters have been holding rallies and a sit-in outside the Republican Guard building since the military deposed Morsi last week during massive protests against him. The military chief replaced Morsi with an interim president until presidential elections are held. The transition plan is backed by liberal and secular opponents of Morsi, and had been also supported by the ultraconservative Islamist Al-Nour party and both Muslim and Christian religious leaders.

Morsi's supporters refuse to recognize the change in leadership and insist Morsi be reinstated, and have vowed to continue their sit-ins outside the Republican Guard building as well as at a nearby mosque.....snip~

Egypt: Gunfire at military building leaves 40 dead
Associated Press – 4 hrs ago <<<<< More here way more.

" Ooops," I think the Media was suppose to report that as Islamists and or Demonstrators. Not the truth that it is the MB. :shock:
 

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The more and more I see from the middle east, the more and more I start subscribing to the theory of my former co-worker whose expertise was related to that area...

Just like there's no ONE style of parenting that fits EVERY child, there's not ONE style of governance that fits EVERY country. The societal and cultural roots and mentality within the middle east is one where it almost needs a dictatorial type of ruler. The mentality of the people and the nature of the societal structure is one where Democracy is generally not a better option and often simply gives rise to a worse option.

The Bush Doctrine, that has in part been continued through Obama, of attempting to facilitate Democracy abroad is more and more seeming like it's failed in its most basic theory....in part because it puts two key notions into conflict. The first, that a countries leaders are tasked with looking out for hte best interest of THEIR COUNTRY first and foremost. The second, that we should be champions and promote Democracy. Those two things can come into conflict and lead to messy quagmires when answers are searched for.
 

Hicup

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The more and more I see from the middle east, the more and more I start subscribing to the theory of my former co-worker whose expertise was related to that area...

Just like there's no ONE style of parenting that fits EVERY child, there's not ONE style of governance that fits EVERY country. The societal and cultural roots and mentality within the middle east is one where it almost needs a dictatorial type of ruler. The mentality of the people and the nature of the societal structure is one where Democracy is generally not a better option and often simply gives rise to a worse option.

The Bush Doctrine, that has in part been continued through Obama, of attempting to facilitate Democracy abroad is more and more seeming like it's failed in its most basic theory....in part because it puts two key notions into conflict. The first, that a countries leaders are tasked with looking out for hte best interest of THEIR COUNTRY first and foremost. The second, that we should be champions and promote Democracy. Those two things can come into conflict and lead to messy quagmires when answers are searched for.
All I can hope for is that the next time someone accuses Israel of a "massacre", that they remember that the Muslims don't have a problem firing on their own when rocks are thrown at them, or they feel threatened. I NEVER venture into the ME forums as I've heard it all before, but I can bet my years salary that it often comes up that Israel uses excessive force whenever and on every occasion against Muslims in Palestine. Where's the Humans Rights Watch when ya need em? ;)


Tim-
 
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