Views of birth parents (?)

[Aunt Spiker]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Or parents who don't want a child but keep it for various reasons and then abuse the child - neglect, physical and psychological abuse, and sometimes abandoning them or even killing them for various reasons. Does this negative view extend to them as well?

 

[cpwill]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Or parents who don't want a child but keep it for various reasons and then abuse the child - neglect, physical and psychological abuse, and sometimes abandoning them or even killing them for various reasons. Does this negative view extend to them as well?

......


Aaaaaand, this is why I really think that most folks in this debate have no clue whatsoever what the other is thinking.



A good rule of thumb: take an unborn child, and ask what you would do in the instance of a born child. That's pretty much gonna be the pro-life position.

 

[David_N]

......


Aaaaaand, this is why I really think that most folks in this debate have no clue whatsoever what the other is thinking.



A good rule of thumb: take an unborn child, and ask what you would do in the instance of a born child. That's pretty much gonna be the pro-life position.

I know what the other side believes. They truly believe a fetus is somehow worthy of "personhood" and should be on the same level as the women carrying it. That's absurdity. Funny thing I've also noticed.. Pro choice individuals are the only ones with solutions that actually REDUCE ABORTION.

 

[Removable Mind]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Or parents who don't want a child but keep it for various reasons and then abuse the child - neglect, physical and psychological abuse, and sometimes abandoning them or even killing them for various reasons. Does this negative view extend to them as well?

Once the soul bearing biological vessel emerges from the womb the pro-fetus advocates have completed their mission. They hold no other responsibilities.

 

[Saucey]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Or parents who don't want a child but keep it for various reasons and then abuse the child - neglect, physical and psychological abuse, and sometimes abandoning them or even killing them for various reasons. Does this negative view extend to them as well?

I don't know about all that. But I do know that my opinion has been changed on "pro choice" people. I think there's different reasons why people chose abortion. A good many in the USA chose abortion because it was an unintended consequence and by choice they chose to abort this consequence.
In China and other countries the state has used it as a means of a solution to an overpopulation problem,
ANd then there are others, the ones that really frighten me, who like the Nazis, use it as a means of some sick perverted way of altering the genetic world to favor what they believe is desirable people and non desirable people.
I do not believe in torturing or killing people who chose abortion. Their fate will one be dealt with, without the judgement of the state. Some religious people would think this way, and other non religious people believe in sort of the same thing through their sense of morality.

 

[David_N]

Once the soul bearing biological vessel emerges from the womb the pro-fetus advocates have completed their mission. They hold no other responsibilities.

^ this. Although I will admit some "pro life" individuals are perfectly ok with their taxes going to help the newborn.

 

[Removable Mind]

^ this. Although I will admit some "pro life" individuals are perfectly ok with their taxes going to help the newborn.

Not many....

 

[Saucey]

Once the soul bearing biological vessel emerges from the womb the pro-fetus advocates have completed their mission. They hold no other responsibilities.

The "soul bearing biological vessel" is the responsibility of its parents. Did you invent that term all on your own? Or was it on Media Matters or the Huffing and Puffing Post, or maybe Planned Parenthood? :roll:

 

[Removable Mind]

The "soul bearing biological vessel" is the responsibility of its parents. Did you invent that term all on your own? Or was it on Media Matters or the Huffing and Puffing Post, or maybe Planned Parenthood? :roll:

Does it matter?

 

[Saucey]

Does it matter?

Not at all my friend. I'm just amused by the way Leftist try to rename things all the time, in an effort to legitimize what they think and want. But, unfortunately for their movement, not many of them are readily available to come out and say what they really think. I mean the Clinton's made a career of doing just that.

 

[Henrin]

^ this. Although I will admit some "pro life" individuals are perfectly ok with their taxes going to help the newborn.

This stupid ass **** where someone must support the welfare state for them to care about children is really annoying. According to your logic someone could give a considerable amount of their income to help poor children, but as long as they don't support the welfare state they don't care about children. Do you have any idea how stupid that logic is?

 

[Removable Mind]

Not at all my friend. I'm just amused by the way Leftist try to rename things all the time, in an effort to legitimize what they think and want. But, unfortunately for their movement, not many of them are readily available to come out and say what they really think. I mean the Clinton's made a career of doing just that.

Oh boy...another partisan hack. Would you like all lefties to die tonight if you had the power to do such? Are they a disease to you?

Abortion isn't a liberal or conservative issue. Ya dig?

 

[David_N]

This stupid ass **** where someone must support the welfare state for them to care about children is really annoying. According to your logic someone could give a considerable amount of their income to help poor children, but as long as they don't support the welfare state they don't care about children. Do you have any idea how stupid that logic is?

There's a problem with that buddy. Before the "welfare state" not enough people were giving up their income. This happens in countries without a "welfare state" today.

 

[Gathomas88]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

Fathers who pressure their wives or girlfriends into having abortions simply to cover for their own selfishness, or fear of actually having to serve as a provider, are supremely misguided and cowardly at best, and absolutely vile at worst.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Ummm... No? To the contrary, if you truly feel that you cannot provide for the child, adoption is the most responsible course of action to take.

The child lives, and has the opportunity for a better life than the parent might be able to provide.

 

[Henrin]

There's a problem with that buddy. Before the "welfare state" not enough people were giving up their income. This happens in countries without a "welfare state" today.

See, here we go again with this drivel like there is some acceptable line in the sand that people have to give. It is up to people if they will give, how much they will give, and how they will do it. All these little games that liberals and socialists like to play where they say things like not enough help is available and all that crap is just that, crap. All you are doing is applying your standards to the rest of society and then looking down on society as a whole for not meeting your little line in the sand standard.

I'm also quite disgusted by your little liberal garbage of looking down on people of the past like somehow they didn't care about the poor like somehow the success of things like mutual aid societies did happen or that somehow over 40% of the population wasn't members.

 

[Lursa]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Or parents who don't want a child but keep it for various reasons and then abuse the child - neglect, physical and psychological abuse, and sometimes abandoning them or even killing them for various reasons. Does this negative view extend to them as well?

IMO putting a baby up for adoption at birth is perfectly ethical and I can completely understand it for those that have beliefs against abortion. I see nothing wrong with it. IMO to claim otherwise is to place blame on a woman/couple for getting pregnant and we all know that no bc (except for the surgical) is 100% foolproof. To choose to give a baby up for adoption seems responsible to me.

As for abusing any child, I see no excuse and if a parent cannot control their actions they should be a) brought up on charges and/or b) give up the child to the state for adoption.

I see no correlation at all between abortion or adoption and the abuse of any person.

 

[Lursa]

There's a problem with that buddy. Before the "welfare state" not enough people were giving up their income. This happens in countries without a "welfare state" today.

He has been informed of this. Apparently the fact that 'voluntary donations, contributions, charity' dont provide enough $ to prevent starvation and homelessess of families does not matter. It's still 'better!'

 

[Saucey]

Oh boy...another partisan hack. Would you like all lefties to die tonight if you had the power to do such? Are they a disease to you?

Abortion isn't a liberal or conservative issue. Ya dig?

I take issue with that. It is very much a political issue. It is not my political issue. But it is very much so for the Democratic party. They spend a lot of time and money organizing around the issue of abortion. They've made it a political issue and they use it as a means to attack their opponents and brand them as sexist, its all a part of their "war on women". They hafta propagate this because this is one of the few ways they can stir up their base. By convincing them that their opposition is against women's rights.

 

[AGENT J]

I take issue with that. It is very much a political issue. It is not my political issue. But it is very much so for the Democratic party. They spend a lot of time and money organizing around the issue of abortion. They've made it a political issue and they use it as a means to attack their opponents and brand them as sexist, its all a part of their "war on women". They hafta propagate this because this is one of the few ways they can stir up their base. By convincing them that their opposition is against women's rights.

LMAO no for two reason

1.) MILLIONS of those on the right support choice and woman's rights which the issue FACTUALLY is. so its not a left right issue no matter how people "stereotypically" try to make it
2.) people who are pro-choice/ for womans rights wouldnt have to fight to protect it if those werent trying to take it away.

try again

 

[Lursa]

I take issue with that. It is very much a political issue. It is not my political issue. But it is very much so for the Democratic party. They spend a lot of time and money organizing around the issue of abortion. They've made it a political issue and they use it as a means to attack their opponents and brand them as sexist, its all a part of their "war on women". They hafta propagate this because this is one of the few ways they can stir up their base. By convincing them that their opposition is against women's rights.

Actually, Dems do not at all....they only do so in response to the attempts of Republcans to overturn RvW or restrict abortion.
onlyo
Dems have no need to do anything. Their consituency agrees with their position and abortion is legal so there is nothing to fight for.....only to be vigilent.

I'm not aware of a single Democrat running that refers to abortion as an issue on their platform. (Altho they may rebut a Republcan opponent on the issue)

 

[JayDubya]

Some pro-life advocates hold a none-too-quiet and open distaste (or even vile disgust, some supporting things as extreme as the death penalty) for mothers who've aborted. I only assume the view extends to fathers who want to abort as well though that's not commented on as often.

For those who hold such extreme views and negativity - I was wondering if that same view or a similar view is extended to birth parents who give their unwanted kid up for adoption.

Or parents who don't want a child but keep it for various reasons and then abuse the child - neglect, physical and psychological abuse, and sometimes abandoning them or even killing them for various reasons. Does this negative view extend to them as well?

Why would we hate a mother or father who realizes they can't financially provide for their kid making arrangements for someone else to do so, when then that's objectively the most responsible thing they can do, given the circumstances?

Why wouldn't we hate a mother or father who abuses or kills a born child?


This entire line of questioning is ridiculous.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Why would we hate a mother or father who realizes they can't financially provide for their kid making arrangements for someone else to do so, when then that's objectively the most responsible thing they can do, given the circumstances?.

That's not the issue. Many females who might have opted to give birth end up at the clinics because the male sperm donor refuses to step up and accept responsibility for his part in the pregnancy. He either insists that she aborts (and this includes fathers of teen girls) or he walks out - or threatens to walk out if the female does not abort. The OP isn't talking about fathers who "make other arrangements" for someone to raise a child -- it's talking about males who cop out or insist that the females abort.

In your opinion, should they suffer the same punishment you advocate for the females?

 

[JayDubya]

That's not the issue.

I guess you didn't read the OP, but yes, that was the issue.

Many females who might have opted to give birth end up at the clinics because the male sperm donor refuses to step up and accept responsibility

That's a stupid reason to have someone else killed. Child support payments aren't optional.

He either insists that she aborts

Then he's at least an accessory to the homicide if that's how things end up, and should be dealt with the same way as anyone party to the homicide of a born human being.

 

[HowardBThiname]

I guess you didn't read the OP, but yes, that was the issue.

It was about anti-choicers rarely condemning the biological fathers.

That's a stupid reason to have someone else killed. Child support payments aren't optional.

Wanna bet? Just because a judge orders a man to pay, doesn't mean he'll pay. Males who father numerous offspring with different women can't come up with the money in the first place. Local jails regularly see dead beat dads who won't/can't pay.

You really miss a lot. Males are often the reason women seek abortions. Do you realize that the most dangerous time for domestic violence against a woman is when she is pregnant? Males will, and have, resorted to violence to keep from being named on a birth certificate.

Do you think an abortion would have saved this young girl's life?

https://tinyvictims.wordpress.com/tag/chelsea-ann-brooks/

 

[JayDubya]

It was about anti-choicers rarely condemning the biological fathers.

a) There's no such thing as an "anti-choicer."

b) No, that was one throwaway line that you've focused on to the exclusion of everything else.

Wanna bet?

Try making a kid and not paying. I'd say good luck to you, but I wouldn't wish luck on such an endeavor even in jest.

Do you think an abortion would have saved this young girl's life?

The father hired someone to kill her. He was convicted for murder. It should have been two counts of murder, though.

You think her hiring someone to kill her kid - something she didn't do, because she wasn't immoral scum like her boyfriend - would have somehow been better, but no, it should result in the same criminal charge.