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Vids: Netanayahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

mbig

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Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

Equal time. app 1 hour each.

Netanyahu Speaking and answering questions before the Council on Foreign Relations. Today July 8.
Saying he is much more ready to make a deal than people think.. and reiterating the danger of Iran.

C-SPAN Video Player - Israeli P.M. Benjamin Netanyahu Remarks at Council on Foreign Relations

Calling for immediate and unconditional talks and hoping to reach a deal with Abbas.
 
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mbig

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Meshaal saying HE is more ready for peace than people think.. but only on the exact '67 borders and with 'right of return.'
May 28, 2010

Charlie Rose - Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal

Resenting that he's not really a player in talks... all of the West and moderate Arab states supporting Abbas/Fatah.
And perhaps offering some sort of permanent recognition if the above conditions are met.
If that is what he is saying, and saying not just for Western consumption, that's further than Hamas has gone previously.
Of course, I don't think his conditions are realistic or possible... but nevertheless.
 
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Apocalypse

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He's quite naive when he says that he believes peace could be reached within one year, and it would probably be held against him in the future.
As long as the Palestinians refuse to enter direct talks with Israel, I can't see anything moving forward, or more accurately, how is anything supposed to be moving forward.
 

justabubba

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He's quite naive when he says that he believes peace could be reached within one year, and it would probably be held against him in the future.
As long as the Palestinians refuse to enter direct talks with Israel, I can't see anything moving forward, or more accurately, how is anything supposed to be moving forward.
by "Palestinians" you are referring to abbas, correct?
if not, who would you expect to sit at that negotiations table advocating the case for the Palestinian people?
 

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by "Palestinians" you are referring to abbas, correct?
I'm referring to their legitimate and official representatives, so yes I am referring to the PLO organization led by Mahmoud Abbas AKA Abu-Mazen.
if not, who would you expect to sit at that negotiations table advocating the case for the Palestinian people?
If not Abbas?
There's this Barghouti guy, Mustafa Barghouti, he's even better than Abbas in my opinion, and he has a chance of moving things forward.
 

justabubba

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I'm referring to their legitimate and official representatives, so yes I am referring to the PLO organization led by Mahmoud Abbas AKA Abu-Mazen.

If not Abbas?
There's this Barghouti guy, Mustafa Barghouti, he's even better than Abbas in my opinion, and he has a chance of moving things forward.
why do you find abbas "their legitimate and official representative(s)"
 

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why do you find abbas "their legitimate and official representative(s)"
When did I say that I find Abbas specifically to be the Palestinians legitimate and official representative?
I was referring to the PLO, and they are the legitimate and official representative of the Palestinian people.
 

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When did I say that I find Abbas specifically to be the Palestinians legitimate and official representative?
I was referring to the PLO, and they are the legitimate and official representative of the Palestinian people.
ok ... getting closer
why do you find the PLO to be the "legitimate and official representative of the Palestinian people"?
do you believe an settlement agreed to by the PLO/abbas would be found acceptable to the Palestinians of gaza, for instance?
 

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ok ... getting closer
why do you find the PLO to be the "legitimate and official representative of the Palestinian people"?
Because:
Wikipedia said:
The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (Arabic: منظمة التحرير الفلسطينية‎; About this sound Munaẓẓamat al-Taḥrīr al-Filasṭīniyyat (help·info)) is a political and paramilitary organization founded in 1964.[1] It is recognized as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people," by over 100 states with which it holds diplomatic relations, and has enjoyed observer status at the United Nations since 1974.[2][3] The PLO was considered by the United States and Israel to be a terrorist organization until the Madrid Conference in 1991. In 1993 PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, accepted UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, and rejected "violence and terrorism"; in response Israel officially recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people.
And because it's the more-moderate leading wing outside of the two Palestinian leading wings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLO
justabubba said:
do you believe an settlement agreed to by the PLO/abbas would be found acceptable to the Palestinians of gaza, for instance?
I don't think it will be acceptable to all of the Palestinians who live in the West Bank and Gaza, just like I don't think that some random economic agreement between Canada and New Zealand would be acceptable by everyone who's living in New Zealand any everyone who's living in Cananda.
I do however think that as long as the PLO accepts it it means that the Palestinian people, wherever they are, accept it - since the PLO is the sole legitimate representative of those Palestinian people and since the PLO has the responsibility and obligation to align itself with the will of the Palestinian people in general.
 

justabubba

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

my concern is israel appears to be choosing for itself the party with which it is willing to negotiate
if that party is not truly representative of the Palestinian people, then those negotiations would be a wasted effort
 

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

my concern is israel appears to be choosing for itself the party with which it is willing to negotiate
The agreement between Israel and the PLO was that they will renounce terrorism and Israel will only then recognize them as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. Until then Israel did not recognize them as such, while others in the world have. Right now, as the Wiki article states, the PLO is recognized as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people by over 100 states that have diplomatic relations with them, not simply "by Israel".
Your concern is hence quite bizarre.
if that party is not truly representative of the Palestinian people, then those negotiations would be a wasted effort
They are truly the representatives of the Palestinian people.
 

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

The agreement between Israel and the PLO was that they will renounce terrorism and Israel will only then recognize them as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. Until then Israel did not recognize them as such, while others in the world have. Right now, as the Wiki article states, the PLO is recognized as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people by over 100 states that have diplomatic relations with them, not simply "by Israel".
Your concern is hence quite bizarre.

They are truly the representatives of the Palestinian people.
if the Palestinian people do not believe their interests are being fairly represented by the PLO, then it would be bizarre to negotiate a settlement with such a "representative"
 

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

if the Palestinian people do not believe their interests are being fairly represented by the PLO, then it would be bizarre to negotiate a settlement with such a "representative"
Who said they do not?
Is your name "Mr. Survey"?
No it's not. You're justabubba.
 

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

if the Palestinian people do not believe their interests are being fairly represented by the PLO, then it would be bizarre to negotiate a settlement with such a "representative"
We get it, Bubba. We know you support Hamas.

THey have vowed to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, however, and so do not make a credible partner when peace is the desired outcome.
 

justabubba

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

We get it, Bubba. We know you support Hamas.

THey have vowed to kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees, however, and so do not make a credible partner when peace is the desired outcome.
it would not take much to find you identifying hamas as a terrorist organization
which would then have you calling me out to be a terrorist supporter
which is a violation of the martial rules to this forum
please retract your statement
1) Accusing ANYONE of being a terrorist or a terrorist supporter.
2) Accusing ANYONE of being a Zionist.
3) Accusing ANYONE of being an Israeli appologist or a terrorist apologist. In fact, the term "apologist" is inflaming enough that I am banning it from the ME Forum during the duration of this Martial Law.
4) Calling for the deaths of and entire ethnic group on either side.
5) Any personal attacks, no matter how light.
6) Any off topic comments or pictures.
7) Anything else at my or the moderation team's discretion.
 

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Re: Vids: Netanyahu (Today) CFR & Hamas' Meshaal 5/28 on Charlie Rose

it would not take much to find you identifying hamas as a terrorist organization
which would then have you calling me out to be a terrorist supporter
which is a violation of the martial rules to this forum
please retract your statement
I am not going to retract the statement since you have such a thoroughly established pattern of postings on the subject.

If you wish to exploit the rules of this forum in such a way that truth is the casualty, so be it.
 

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From the transcript of the Charlie Rose interview:

Meshaal: Let me answer this with my own words. Hamas accepts a Palestinian state on the borders of 1967 with its capital Jerusalem and with the right of return.

Unfortunately, even as this stance might seem reasonably moderate if one focused only on the boundaries, the demand for a "right of return" undercuts any moderation. Under such a framework, a Palestinian state would be created within 1967 boundaries. Israel would be compelled to accept Palestinian refugees and their descendants and transformed into a Jewish minority state. Then, Israel would face the stark options of trying to maintain Jewish minority rule (which would open it up to increasing pressure) or to accept majority rule (which would all but certainly lead to the end of Jewish Israel). In the end, the Meshaal solution would defeat the original intent of UN General Assembly Resolution 181, which aimed to create a Jewish state and an Arab state within the region. Hence, once one looks at the concrete substance of the Meshaal formula, it is nothing less than a "Trojan Horse" for achieving Israel's elimination.
 
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mbig

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I had mentioned the 'right of return' in the second OP as a not possible condition. It's a non-starter for everyone on the Israel side and pretty much understood so internationally as well.
Tho perhaps that 'right' could be assuaged for a few billion in compensation. Some palestinians probably hoping so.

And after listening a few times...
The thing that was and still is new in the interview is the specter of permanent peace, not just the proverbial Hudna.
Parsing it more carefully, he's saying he would take it only on those conditions and then would grant that permanence/would abide by a majority vote/referendum.
Leaving one thinking if the vote could be reversed years down the line even tho the initial vote on his conditions would certainly be approved.

Again, all theoretical as his conditions for peace are IMO Infinitesimal.
 
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There were also reports in Arab media that Abbas is willing to let Israel keep the Jewish quarter in the old city of Jerusalem. I think this is a major step in the Palestinian position regarding Jerusalem. I believe most Israelies will settle for keeping only the Jewish quarter of the Old City, though I'm not sure if the residents of the Christian and the Armenian quarters would like to live in a Palestinian state, perhaps a referendum in each quarter should determine it's furture. I'm curious what is the Palestinian idea of a compromise regarding Temple Mount.
 

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There were also reports in Arab media that Abbas is willing to let Israel keep the Jewish quarter in the old city of Jerusalem. I think this is a major step in the Palestinian position regarding Jerusalem. I believe most Israelies will settle for keeping only the Jewish quarter of the Old City, though I'm not sure if the residents of the Christian and the Armenian quarters would like to live in a Palestinian state, perhaps a referendum in each quarter should determine it's furture. I'm curious what is the Palestinian idea of a compromise regarding Temple Mount.
I agree with that, even though most of the Christians are Arab it'll be more likely that they'd decide to stay in Israel and enjoy Israeli rights.
 
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