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Victimized Japan

jfuh said:
Let me re-iterate again, CLASS A WAR CRIMINALS!

Let ME reiterate. They have assumed room temperature! Their burial is NOT an international matter.

If you want to go on with your assumptions Lu make sure you know who it is you are assuming about. My family suffered under imperialist Japanese rule. Don't tell me about support. Who ever said I supported your chicoms?

When you supported their illegal claim to Taiwan.

Again, you like to go off topic. Hypocricy is completely unrelated to this matter. Korea also suffered under imperialist Japan, as did the Philliipines, Vietnam. So what are you saying? Well China did such and such and such, so Japan is off the hook. Why do you keep going off topic on this subject matter?

NO, Japan is NOT off the hook. They committed horrible crimes during the war. I have been to Nanjing, Changchun and Harbin. I have been to the museums. I have talked to many people who sufferred from their crimes. I have also lived in Indonesia, and talked to people there. Though it should also be noted that the Japanese were an important catalyst for the post-war independence in most of those countries.

I have been highly critical of Japan's crimes, but they happened more than SIXTY years ago. Virtually all of those responsiblehave passed away. Japanese today are pacifist, though wary of the Chinese threat.

Japan has?Actions speak louder then words.
I wasn't aware that China had ever invaded Japan or for that matter killed innocent Japanese civilians in cold blood. Your arguments are obviously extending from a bias agaisnt China.

I don't have a bias against China, I have a bias against their criminal government. Japan has apologized for its crimes. It has provided vital aid to many of the countries victimized by their aggression. They have become a responsible member of the international community.

Doesn't matter, how many, the fact is they are there. If Germany "inshrined" Hitler you think it'd matter who else was there?

It matters to you, not to me. Japan was aggressive, but their leaders do not meet the level of evil Hitler did. Close, but not quite.

So I don't see any argument you've made. Untill the higher courts ruling such visits by the prime minister are unconstitutional.

Not under Japanese law. If an appeal is in process, the decision is stayed until a final decision is rendered.

Lol, you forget of my origins lu. Of course I read Japanese.

Gee, I thought you claimed to be Taiwanese. Few Taiwanese can read Japanese, and most of those who can are more than 70 years old.

Japan does not. Dude, this is not about the US nor China nor anyone else, this is about Japan. Get it through your head.
Trial of tears, US domestic affair, Japanese- American internment-- domestic affair, Slavery -- domestic affair.
China -- cultural revolution domestic affair.
Japan WWII war crimes -- INTERNATIONAL affair.

The crimes were international. The internment of the dead is internal. Many of China's threats and crimes are international.

Yes lets elaborate on that for everyone here. You're residing in Japan now? Local japanese school? Want to elaborate on credibility?

Your ignorance is appalling. You don't think Taichung has a Japanese school?

My sources are news reports from coorespondants in Japan. I think that is much more credible about how teaching happens in Japan TODAY then your friends who are not teaching in Japan.

Ihave many friends who ARE teachers in Japan. I attended a conference for history educators while a graduate student. The topic was the Pacific War attendees came from many countries, including Japan. As the only American educator there who could speak Japanese, I was able to spend a lot of time talking to them. I still keep in touch with several of them. They are in the classrooms every day. They have far more credibility than isolated press reports.

Yes you did. Argument after argument you scapegoat Japan's responsibility and blame China for something that occured years later. Relationship? Weak.
Thus it's not what you have written, but what your implications seem to be. Now let's see your own words again.

No,I have not. Both are responsible for their respective crimes. China's are ongoing while Japan's are more than 60 years old. They have done FAR MORE to make amends.

THere is no link lu. China killing thier own citizens has nothing at all to do with Japan invading China. Perhaps you would liken to link the US's civil war with the US-Spanish war?

There is a link in the current calls by China's government, yet their unwillingness to mention their own crimes or whitewashing the past.



One needn't political knowledge to understand common sense.

You seem to lack both.


Wrong again, I'm speaking of entitlement, perhaps reading would help?

Liberals love that word. don't they?

So what? I thought it's already been established the two are unrelated.

Only in your highly biased mind.

China as a nation is not entitled no, Chinese citizens are, as are Korean nationals and so on.

No,they are not.

No, I'm merely pointing out the irrelevance of your arguments specific to this thread. You keep pointing out the hypocrisy of China's government, big deal, hardly to the least Justifies Japan at all.

Yes and no. It doesn't justify Japan's PAST, but points to China's PRESENT hypocrisy.


No, I've never heard the term Chicoms until now, so no I have no idea what you are talking about.

That term has been around for years. Why am I not suprised that you don't have a clue?
 
ludahai said:
Let ME reiterate. They have assumed room temperature! Their burial is NOT an international matter.
Ok, so by your logic, as long as they have assumed room temperature and are buried, even the burial of Hitler in Berlin in a shrine should then be justified.


ludahai said:
When you supported their illegal claim to Taiwan.
I'm begining to see how you argue, always backing up to Taiwan and your non-sense political fanatacism. As I've said that's another argument that's completely unrelated to this argument. So I say again stay on track.

ludahai said:
NO, Japan is NOT off the hook. They committed horrible crimes during the war. I have been to Nanjing, Changchun and Harbin. I have been to the museums. I have talked to many people who sufferred from their crimes. I have also lived in Indonesia, and talked to people there. Though it should also be noted that the Japanese were an important catalyst for the post-war independence in most of those countries.

I have been highly critical of Japan's crimes, but they happened more than SIXTY years ago. Virtually all of those responsiblehave passed away. Japanese today are pacifist, though wary of the Chinese threat.
Finally on topic.

ludahai said:
I don't have a bias against China, I have a bias against their criminal government. Japan has apologized for its crimes. It has provided vital aid to many of the countries victimized by their aggression. They have become a responsible member of the international community.
The aid provided has nothing to do with being apologetic or any such.

ludahai said:
It matters to you, not to me.
So you're saying it doesn't matter if Hitler is enshrined and honored. That's bullshit.

ludahai said:
Japan was aggressive, but their leaders do not meet the level of evil Hitler did. Close, but not quite.
Close but not quite? You're sick.
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.12.96/cover/china3-9650.html
mur_children1.jpg

nanking_rapevictims.jpg

japnbody.gif

http://images.google.com.tw/imgres?...t=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:zh-TW:official&sa=N
You look hard at these images Lu and tell me close but not quite.

ludahai said:
Not under Japanese law. If an appeal is in process, the decision is stayed until a final decision is rendered.
So what? Unconstitutional.

ludahai said:
Gee, I thought you claimed to be Taiwanese. Few Taiwanese can read Japanese, and most of those who can are more than 70 years old.
I never claimed to be a aboriginal Taiwanese, I'm Chinese as are the remainder of those that reside on the island that are not aboriginal. Only matters when they migrated to the island.
Yes, many residents here can read Japanese quite fluently. Otherwise how can you understand thier porn? Of course yada yada is all you need to know really.


ludahai said:
The crimes were international. The internment of the dead is internal. Many of China's threats and crimes are international.
ARe you playing the ignorance card now? Seriously, you of all should understand the implications of honoring war criminals and the impact of honoring the dead in East Asian society. Don't play dumb seriously.
As for China's threats, no nation in Asia sees China as a threat (Japan nationalists being the exception).

ludahai said:
Your ignorance is appalling. You don't think Taichung has a Japanese school?
Not only does Taichung have one, so does Kaoshung and Taipei. This is related to my argument how?

ludahai said:
Ihave many friends who ARE teachers in Japan. I attended a conference for history educators while a graduate student. The topic was the Pacific War attendees came from many countries, including Japan. As the only American educator there who could speak Japanese, I was able to spend a lot of time talking to them. I still keep in touch with several of them. They are in the classrooms every day. They have far more credibility than isolated press reports.
Islotated press reports? Lol, you want more? It's not difficult at all, especially now with the rising nationalist storm in Japan.

ludahai said:
No,I have not. Both are responsible for their respective crimes. China's are ongoing while Japan's are more than 60 years old. They have done FAR MORE to make amends.
What relevance does time play? What is relevant is who is affected. Japan effected everyone along the Pacific rim with her crimes that add you are prosecuted. China's? Internal. Again this is not the argumet or topic at hand. Did the US kill and british, french, spanish during the civil war? no, did the US commit crimes against humanity during the civil war? of course. So again the obvious fallacy in your argument is clear, you can not compare to completely different issues.

ludahai said:
There is a link in the current calls by China's government, yet their unwillingness to mention their own crimes or whitewashing the past.
ok, so what's the link?

ludahai said:
You seem to lack both.
This is constructive how?

ludahai said:
Liberals love that word. don't they?
Lost any backing in your arguments?

ludahai said:
Only in your highly biased mind.
Great comeback.


ludahai said:
No,they are not.
They very much are. Why you deny a victims rights? Perhaps they deserved to be sex slaves? Deserved to be killed and slaughtered?

ludahai said:
Yes and no. It doesn't justify Japan's PAST, but points to China's PRESENT hypocrisy.
Again, irrelevent.

ludahai said:
That term has been around for years. Why am I not suprised that you don't have a clue?
You give me too much credit. English is not my native language.

Since you do understand Japanese, seemingly, here's a phrase for you.
ばかはしんんななきゃなおらない。
 
jfuh said:
The only WWII axis nation that is un-apologetic of its War Crimes continues to play the victimized card. Japan till this day continues to claim that its imperialist militant expansion and war mongering in the 1930's and then later world war in 1940's was a result of being pushed too far by western empires. Japan continues to claim that invading the north eastern provinces of China, known as Manchuria, was to protect the Chinese from the communist USSR. Whiting out its militant past in all text books taught in middle school and high school.
By far the most outrageous is the continuous "honoring" of convicted war criminals by even thier prime minister in the militant Yasukuni Shrine which is in the middle of Tokyo. This is the same as Nazi's placing Hitler's ashes in the middle of Berlin, claiming also the holocoust never occured.
When will Japan formerly apologize for her crimes?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/13/opinion/13mon3.html?n=Top/Opinion/Editorials and Op-Ed/Editorials


Yeah because an EDITORIAL from the NEW YORK ****ING TIMES is an extremely reliable source of information:

CommunistManifesto said:
People everywhere wish they could be proud of every bit of their countries' histories. But honest people understand that's impossible, and wise people appreciate the positive value of acknowledging and learning from painful truths about past misdeeds. Then there is Japan's new foreign minister, Taro Aso, who has been neither honest nor wise in the inflammatory statements he has been making about Japan's disastrous era of militarism, colonialism and war crimes that culminated in the Second World War.

Besides offending neighboring countries that Japan needs as allies and trading partners, he is disserving the people he has been pandering to. World War II ended before most of today's Japanese were born. Yet public discourse in Japan and modern history lessons in its schools have never properly come to terms with the country's responsibility for such terrible events as the mass kidnapping and sexual enslavement of Korean young women, the biological warfare experiments carried out on Chinese cities and helpless prisoners of war, and the sadistic slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians in the city of Nanjing.

That is why so many Asians have been angered by a string of appalling remarks Mr. Aso has made since being named foreign minister last fall. Two of the most recent were his suggestion that Japan's emperor ought to visit the militaristic Yasukuni Shrine, where 14 Japanese war criminals are among those honored, and his claim that Taiwan owes its high educational standards to enlightened Japanese policies during the 50-year occupation that began when Tokyo grabbed the island as war booty from China in 1895. Mr. Aso's later lame efforts to clarify his words left their effect unchanged.

Mr. Aso has also been going out of his way to inflame Japan's already difficult relations with Beijing by characterizing China's long-term military buildup as a "considerable threat" to Japan. China has no recent record of threatening Japan. As the rest of the world knows, it was the other way around. Mr. Aso's sense of diplomacy is as odd as his sense of history.

Do you see a single line of text in there where the author directly quotes the minister? I don't. All I see is alot of accusations about what the far far far far left writer thinks he might have aluded to, and most of that could be taken directly from China's state run news agency.

Japan has been apologizing now for 60 years. School children in Japan are shown horrifying photographs of the victims of WWII. It is beaten into their heads daily that they should be ashamed of their country, and that war is never acceptable. Japanese people have almost no sense of national pride.

So go away with your liberal rag of a newspaper printing their historically inaccurate version of what goes on in a country they have probably never been to, and CERTAINLY don't understand.
 
FreeThinker said:
Yeah because an EDITORIAL from the NEW YORK ****ING TIMES is an extremely reliable source of information:
So prove it wrong. Are you claiming that Japan's Foreign minister is not done such?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taro_Aso
Just a few of his remarks quoted at the bottom of this show of his disrespect for other nations.

FreeThinker said:
Do you see a single line of text in there where the author directly quotes the minister? I don't. All I see is alot of accusations about what the far far far far left writer thinks he might have aluded to, and most of that could be taken directly from China's state run news agency.
FAr far far left? Funny then how you wear a liberal rank of donkeys (thought fake) so proudly as your avatar. If you challenge what has been written thus far as my source, please give me a fact check and prove otherwise.

FreeThinker said:
Japan has been apologizing now for 60 years.
Actions speak louder then words.

FreeThinker said:
School children in Japan are shown horrifying photographs of the victims of WWII. It is beaten into their heads daily that they should be ashamed of their country, and that war is never acceptable. Japanese people have almost no sense of national pride.
Bullshit. I call you to cite a source showing this. No reasonable person on this forum would ever make such a claim.

So go away with your liberal rag of a newspaper printing their historically inaccurate version of what goes on in a country they have probably never been to, and CERTAINLY don't understand.[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:
jfuh said:
Bullshit. I call you to cite a source showing this. No reasonable person on this forum would ever make such a claim.

My wife is japanese, born in Osaka japan, came here 5 years ago, raised in the japanese public school system.

She most likely knows more about it than you or your friends at that socialist rag of a "newspaper" you call the new york times.
 
FreeThinker said:
My wife is japanese, born in Osaka japan, came here 5 years ago, raised in the japanese public school system.

She most likely knows more about it than you or your friends at that socialist rag of a "newspaper" you call the new york times.
Knows more about what?
The various biological war fare research stations based throughout Manchuria during the war?
Sex slaves captured and mutilated?
Massacre of Nanking?
The lies of Japanese government for white washing thier militant history?

Name your pick FT.
 
jfuh said:
Knows more about what?
The various biological war fare research stations based throughout Manchuria during the war?
Sex slaves captured and mutilated?
Massacre of Nanking?
The lies of Japanese government for white washing thier militant history?

Name your pick FT.

We were discussing the Japanese education in their public schools about world war II. I provided you with a first hand source of that subject.

And who is saying that the Japanese were right in world war II? What they did was wrong and evil. No one is denying that.

You asking all Japanese to spend every day cowering and whimpering about how evil they are is a bit much though, especially when the people leading Japan today were just being born when WWII happened.

I liken that to you asking me to apologize to all black people for slavery simply because I'm white, even though the people I am apologizing to were not slaves, and I was never a slave owner.
 
FreeThinker said:
We were discussing the Japanese education in their public schools about world war II. I provided you with a first hand source of that subject.

And who is saying that the Japanese were right in world war II? What they did was wrong and evil. No one is denying that.

You asking all Japanese to spend every day cowering and whimpering about how evil they are is a bit much though, especially when the people leading Japan today were just being born when WWII happened.

I liken that to you asking me to apologize to all black people for slavery simply because I'm white, even though the people I am apologizing to were not slaves, and I was never a slave owner.

The education bit is only but a small part of the entire argument.
Here's a contrast of Japan and Germany:
http://www.japanresearch.org.tw/ohfrontnews-49.asp
Here's more first hand account to challenge yours:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/20/i...tml?ex=1140670800&en=ba5daa02b539565e&ei=5070
It is fact that Japan buries the truth of it's crimes during WWII.

You at least know of much of the horrors of slavery, not every Japanese acknowledges of the horrors of thier nations militant past.
 
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