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Victimized Japan

jfuh

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The only WWII axis nation that is un-apologetic of its War Crimes continues to play the victimized card. Japan till this day continues to claim that its imperialist militant expansion and war mongering in the 1930's and then later world war in 1940's was a result of being pushed too far by western empires. Japan continues to claim that invading the north eastern provinces of China, known as Manchuria, was to protect the Chinese from the communist USSR. Whiting out its militant past in all text books taught in middle school and high school.
By far the most outrageous is the continuous "honoring" of convicted war criminals by even thier prime minister in the militant Yasukuni Shrine which is in the middle of Tokyo. This is the same as Nazi's placing Hitler's ashes in the middle of Berlin, claiming also the holocoust never occured.
When will Japan formerly apologize for her crimes?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/13/opinion/13mon3.html?n=Top/Opinion/Editorials and Op-Ed/Editorials
 

Kandahar

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I doubt Japan will ever apologize. The Japanese are very nationalistic and xenophobic. Even merely acknowledging that the atrocities took place will probably not happen for several more decades, when most of the people who remember WWII are dead.
 

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Kandahar said:
I doubt Japan will ever apologize. The Japanese are very nationalistic and xenophobic. Even merely acknowledging that the atrocities took place will probably not happen for several more decades, when most of the people who remember WWII are dead.
Exactly what they want.
 

Volker

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The weird thing is, that Mr. Koizumi actually apologized at Jakarta summit and during the same time 80 Japanese parlamentarians visited Yasukuni shrine.
 

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It always makes me sick the way people **** & moan over Hiroshima and Nagasaki,but. Say nothing about Nanking ! Those japanese cities were military targets of a country at war with the USA.
Nanking was a city that had surrendered in a country that Japan never even declared war on, just attacked. What about the Bataan death march, or the murder of POW's. I do not cry for Japan,she was lucky we didn't have 3 bombs !
 

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Volker said:
The weird thing is, that Mr. Koizumi actually apologized at Jakarta summit and during the same time 80 Japanese parlamentarians visited Yasukuni shrine.
No, he didn't apologize at Jakarta, he issued a statement of remorse and regret. That's not at all an apology.
 

Volker

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jfuh said:
No, he didn't apologize at Jakarta, he issued a statement of remorse and regret. That's not at all an apology.
What would be an apology in your opinion?
 

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I think the apology came with the surrender.

Y'know, we kicked their asses.;)
 

jfuh

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Volker said:
What would be an apology in your opinion?
If the prime minister of Japan would issue: "On behalf of the nation of Japan, I apologize to all the nations that suffered under imperialist Japan."
Then, take out the war criminals posts from the Yasukuni Shrine and write truthfully in its history text books of its militant past.
Essentially learn from Germany.
ie doing this in cities such as Nanjing, China; Honolulu, Hawaii:



This is former German Chancelor Willy Brandt in Warsaw Poland Dec. 7th 1970.
Today everyone in Germany is fully taught of Germany's war time past, no white washing over the facts. When Japan does that, starting with the formal apology (which it never has done), then it will truly start to account for her past.
 

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fooligan said:
I think the apology came with the surrender.

Y'know, we kicked their asses.;)
No it did not. Do you think Saddam is at all apologetic to the US, Kuwait, the Kurds?
Japan today claim that it was the fault of western powers, including but not limited to the US, that pushed her to fight in WWII.
 

Volker

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jfuh said:
If the prime minister of Japan would issue: "On behalf of the nation of Japan, I apologize to all the nations that suffered under imperialist Japan."
Then, take out the war criminals posts from the Yasukuni Shrine and write truthfully in its history text books of its militant past.
Essentially learn from Germany.
ie doing this in cities such as Nanjing, China; Honolulu, Hawaii:
Ok, I understand.
 

Synch

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And people complain about the anti japanese setimism in China...

compare the trials of Japanese war criminals to the european holocaust war criminals.. the Japanese got off easy, not to mention they had a conditioned surrender, their emperor was not touched..

Plus, civilian wise, they killed way more people, the Germans including all races around 12 million jews, polish, etc... Japanese killed 20 million Chinese alone, and millions on pacific islands, Indonesia, Korea, Phillipines.. etc.
 

ludahai

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While Japan undoubtedly committed horrendous crimes in WWII against China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and other countries, they occurred more than sixty years ago. Since then, Japan has become one of the most responsible nations in the international community, while China has become the regional threat and threatens to become the regional aggressor.

However, to say apologies have not been issued is a fabrication.

"deep reflections and heartfelt apologies"
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-08/2005-08-15-voa6.cfm?CFID=29183416&CFTOKEN=20923598

That was present PM Koizumi.

PM Maruyama also offerred a formal apology in 1995.

As for the textbook issue, not all Japanese texts whitewash history. There was one approved last year, but it has been adoped by less than one percent of Japan's schools.

Let's also not forget the millions and millions of yen that have been given to counties in the region (China still receives considerable aid despite Peiping's recent virulant anti-Japan rhetoric). This is an even more meaningful form of apology.

I want to know when the ChiComs are going to apologize for their ONGOING crimes against the Tibetans and their own people. How about an apology for the lies in THEIR textbooks?
 

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ludahai said:
While Japan undoubtedly committed horrendous crimes in WWII against China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and other countries, they occurred more than sixty years ago.
What does it matter when they were committed? WHat has Japan done to reconcile these crimes? Enshrine CONVICTED CLASS A WAR CRIMINALS in the yasukuni shrine, as well as visits by the Japanese prime minister and nearly all of the LDP party to the shrine admist protests from all Asian countries. This is identical to erecting a church to honor Hitler.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4471495.stm

ludahai said:
Since then, Japan has become one of the most responsible nations in the international community, while China has become the regional threat and threatens to become the regional aggressor.
What the fuc$ does China have anything to do with Japan's insincerity? Perhaps you have not noticed the thread?

ludahai said:
However, to say apologies have not been issued is a fabrication.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-08/2005-08-15-voa6.cfm?CFID=29183416&CFTOKEN=20923598

That was present PM Koizumi.
Issuing an apology then later visiting the Yasukuni shrine, the apologies were completely unsincere, nothing more than lip service.
Example, if Willy Brandt after kneeling down at Warsaw upon returning to Germany and wore a schwatztika that's the equivalence of what Koizumi does annually. He claims it to be his constitutional right as an individual to visit the shrine. However an Osaka court ruled that it was unconstitutional for the PM to visit Yasukuni and presented a violation of Japan's Constitution.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4307393.stm


ludahai said:
PM Maruyama also offerred a formal apology in 1995.
Then getting essentially ousted by the LDP.

ludahai said:
As for the textbook issue, not all Japanese texts whitewash history. There was one approved last year, but it has been adoped by less than one percent of Japan's schools.
2 questions,
1) who approves these text books?
2) what is written in the rest of the text books with regards to Japan's militant past?

Do you know? I'll tell you
1) The ministry of education - a government ministry.
2) Hardly anything, just brief exerpts in acknowledgement that they invaded asian countries. How much is written about Hiroshima? chapters upon chapters.

ludahai said:
Let's also not forget the millions and millions of yen that have been given to counties in the region (China still receives considerable aid despite Peiping's recent virulant anti-Japan rhetoric). This is an even more meaningful form of apology.
WHat's peiping? a city? person?
Economic aid hmmm, and how much does Germany pay annually to Israel? Is it aid? or something else? Surly you of all people know the difference.
Just incase you don't know here's something that you should listen to.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1037152 Just a small section of Japan's holocost in Asia, in this it's particular to China.

ludahai said:
I want to know when the ChiComs are going to apologize for their ONGOING crimes against the Tibetans and their own people. How about an apology for the lies in THEIR textbooks?
Again what the hell does it matter of any other country does, does it then make what Japan did and continually do right? Surely you see the variance of how Germany handles the Holocoust with how Japan handles it's mass murders all over Asia.

ChiComs, yes realy gives your argument a lot of credibility doesn't it?
 
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ludahai

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jfuh said:
What does it matter when they were committed? WHat has Japan done to reconcile these crimes? Enshrine CONVICTED CLASS A WAR CRIMINALS in the yasukuni shrine, as well as visits by the Japanese prime minister and nearly all of the LDP party to the shrine admist protests from all Asian countries. This is identical to erecting a church to honor Hitler.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4471495.stm
No, it is not. There is far more there than the class A war criminals. That shrine is more than a century old and is a vital part of Shinto tradition of recognizing their forebearers. It functions much as Arlington National Cemetary does to the US. Would I prefer that the war criminals were removed? Yes. However, as the Chinese love to say, that is an internal matter.

What the fuc$ does China have anything to do with Japan's insincerity? Perhaps you have not noticed the thread?
Whenever someone brings up China's crimes (which are ONGOING), you are prepared to ignore them. Hypocrite.

Issuing an apology then later visiting the Yasukuni shrine, the apologies were completely unsincere, nothing more than lip service.
Example, if Willy Brandt after kneeling down at Warsaw upon returning to Germany and wore a schwatztika that's the equivalence of what Koizumi does annually.
Your opinion. Do you claim to read Koizumi's mind and understand his intentions?

He claims it to be his constitutional right as an individual to visit the shrine. However an Osaka court ruled that it was unconstitutional for the PM to visit Yasukuni and presented a violation of Japan's Constitution.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4307393.stm
And as in most countries where the rule of law prevails, there are apellate rights which the PM, as any other Japanese citizen, has the right to avail himself of?

BTW, what do you think of the countless rulings AGAINST Chinese and Korean claimants?


2 questions,
1) who approves these text books?
2) what is written in the rest of the text books with regards to Japan's militant past?

Do you know? I'll tell you
1) The ministry of education - a government ministry.
2) Hardly anything, just brief exerpts in acknowledgement that they invaded asian countries. How much is written about Hiroshima? chapters upon chapters.
The MOE is REQUIRED to approve them so long as they meet MINIMUM curricular guidelines. Democracies generally believe that freedom of expression is important. The real decisions on textbook adoption occur at the local level. This book has been almost universally rejected! One school that DID adopt it is facing a lawsuit.

Not as much as US texts discuss the historical sins of its past to be sure, BUT it is more than just glossed over these days. I have seen two commonly used texts. Also, most Japanese teachers add more to what is in the text. In fact, ALL good teachers do this. If you think I stuck strictly to the textbook when I taught history, that would be a grave error.

WHat's peiping? a city? person?
That is how the PRC's capital is generally known as here.

Economic aid hmmm, and how much does Germany pay annually to Israel? Is it aid? or something else? Surly you of all people know the difference.
Just incase you don't know here's something that you should listen to.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1037152 Just a small section of Japan's holocost in Asia, in this it's particular to China.
China's communists are responsible for the deaths of more Chinese than Japan is. China's government currently brutalizes non-Chinese in the territories it occupies. The alter history in their own textbooks.

If Japan stops its aid, you KNOW China will whine that it is ENTITLED to that aid. There are many in Japan who want it ended in the aftermath of the barbaric behavior of the Chinese after losing to Japan in soccer.


Again what the hell does it matter of any other country does, does it then make what Japan did and continually do right? Surely you see the variance of how Germany handles the Holocoust with how Japan handles it's mass murders all over Asia.
Japan is CURRENTLY a responsible member of the international community, UNLIKE your buddies in China.

ChiComs, yes realy gives your argument a lot of credibility doesn't it?
The truth hurts, doesn't it?
 

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ludahai said:
No, it is not. There is far more there than the class A war criminals. That shrine is more than a century old and is a vital part of Shinto tradition of recognizing their forebearers. It functions much as Arlington National Cemetary does to the US. Would I prefer that the war criminals were removed? Yes. However, as the Chinese love to say, that is an internal matter.
International war criminals are a DOMESTIC matter? So your forefathers died and sacrificed in WWII for what exactly? So that the enemy they fought would house the murders they captured and convicted in a shrine and honored as heros? Disgusting.

ludahai said:
Whenever someone brings up China's crimes (which are ONGOING), you are prepared to ignore them. Hypocrite.
As I've stated, this thread is not about China's crimes, it's about Japan claiming to be the victim, if you want to talk about China perhaps you can start another thread? Otherwise this has zero contribution.
Or is it that you are arguing because China commits crimes against humanity then Japan shouldn't have to apologize for her crimes? I thought you were all about international law Lu? What happened in this case, inapplicable?

ludahai said:
Your opinion. Do you claim to read Koizumi's mind and understand his intentions?
Let's see, visiting shrine that honors Class A war criminals as heros then saying he's sorry for Japan's aggressionist past. Hmmm, if that doesn't spell liar to you I don't know what will.

ludahai said:
And as in most countries where the rule of law prevails, there are apellate rights which the PM, as any other Japanese citizen, has the right to avail himself of?
Wow, are you "overrulling" the Osaka courts ruling that Koizumi, as the PM of Japan, to visit Yasukuni is unconstitutional? The court clearly spelled out that the PM does not have the rights as private citizens do to visit the shrine. They ruled quite clearly that all of the PM's actions are representative of the state.

ludahai said:
BTW, what do you think of the countless rulings AGAINST Chinese and Korean claimants?
Bullshit, plain and simple.


ludahai said:
The MOE is REQUIRED to approve them so long as they meet MINIMUM curricular guidelines. Democracies generally believe that freedom of expression is important. The real decisions on textbook adoption occur at the local level. This book has been almost universally rejected! One school that DID adopt it is facing a lawsuit.
I'm not talking of that ONE text book, I'm talking about all the text books. All of them gloss over Japan in WWII. Contrast that with German text books- nothing is glossed over, every german national is knowledgable of the occurances of the holocaust.

ludahai said:
Not as much as US texts discuss the historical sins of its past to be sure, BUT it is more than just glossed over these days. I have seen two commonly used texts. Also, most Japanese teachers add more to what is in the text. In fact, ALL good teachers do this. If you think I stuck strictly to the textbook when I taught history, that would be a grave error.
Who's comparing to US text books? The Us never commited a holocaust such as that of Germany or Japan.
As for the teachers, no, they are not allowed to teach further.
Sources:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2161
http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/tokyo_teacher_is_punished_for_pa.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Te...m/2005/03/27/1111862258598.html?oneclick=true
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/453.html

ludahai said:
That is how the PRC's capital is generally known as here.
I have never seen nor heard of such reference to beijing. Perhaps you are trying to spell Beiping? or Peiking? I suggest you look up the phonetics before making up words in the future, may add more credibility to your arguments when you reference correctly.

ludahai said:
China's communists are responsible for the deaths of more Chinese than Japan is.
And thus that makes it OK for Japan to be an bad *** right? What kind of bull$hit argument is that? Why you keep going off topic?

ludahai said:
China's government currently brutalizes non-Chinese in the territories it occupies. The alter history in their own textbooks.
Again, why are you purposly going off topic? Losing momentum?

ludahai said:
If Japan stops its aid, you KNOW China will whine that it is ENTITLED to that aid. There are many in Japan who want it ended in the aftermath of the barbaric behavior of the Chinese after losing to Japan in soccer.
I notice you do not respond to my question but instead again go off in a tangent that is completely irrelevent to the topic. This isn't only about China, this is also about Vietnam, Phillipines, Korea (both koreas), Indonesia (though not so much) and so on and so forth.

Perhaps you need to be educated on the variance between economic aid and war time repartations. Here's the simplified version:
HTML:
Main Entry: 1aid
Pronunciation: 'Ad
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English eyden, from Middle French aider, from Latin adjutare, frequentative of adjuvare, from ad- + juvare to help
transitive senses : to provide with what is useful or necessary in achieving an end
intransitive senses : to give assistance
- aid·er noun
HTML:
Main Entry: rep·a·ra·tion
Pronunciation: "re-p&-'rA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin reparation-, reparatio, from Latin reparare
1 a : a repairing or keeping in repair b plural : REPAIRS
2 a : the act of making amends, offering expiation, or giving satisfaction for a wrong or injury b : something done or given as amends or satisfaction
3 : the payment of damages : INDEMNIFICATION; specifically : compensation in money or materials payable by a defeated nation for damages to or expenditures sustained by another nation as a result of hostilities with the defeated nation -- usually used in plural
All contries invaded by Japan (including the US) are entitiled to war reparations from Japan.
If Japan chooses to additionally give economic aid packages to these countries that is thier own decision and has nothing to do with Japan being the original aggressor.
The US give economic aid packages all over the world, is that the US saying ooh, I'm sorry.
Then is China not entitled to recieve reparations (not aid) from Japan? Israel as a nation receives such from Germany, and Israel didn't even exist during WWII.

ludahai said:
Japan is CURRENTLY a responsible member of the international community, UNLIKE your buddies in China.
AGain, why do you keep going off topic? THis thread is NOT about China, if you like to blabber about CHina's killings start another thread about it and we'll debate about it there, otherwise provide something constructive to the argument as shown in the title of the thread.

ludahai said:
The truth hurts, doesn't it?
What truth, I don't even know what it is you're talking about.
 
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ludahai

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jfuh said:
International war criminals are a DOMESTIC matter? So your forefathers died and sacrificed in WWII for what exactly? So that the enemy they fought would house the murders they captured and convicted in a shrine and honored as heros? Disgusting.
Once they have assumed room temperature and are buried, the attendence at RELIGIOUS ceremonies at the shrine most certainly ARE an internal matter. That is the very phrase your ChiCom buddies love to use all the time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. BTW, both of my grandfathers fought for the notion of FREEDOM, something that you perhaps need to learn a little more about if you are going to support the sort of thugs that you do.

As I've stated, this thread is not about China's crimes, it's about Japan claiming to be the victim, if you want to talk about China perhaps you can start another thread? Otherwise this has zero contribution.
In your mind, they are unrelated. However, what makes them related is the RANK HYPOCRICY of complaing about Japan yet wishing to deflect criticism against a regime that is responsible for FAR MORE CHINESE DEATHS AND SUFFERING than the Imperial Japanese Army was ever guilty of.

Or is it that you are arguing because China commits crimes against humanity then Japan shouldn't have to apologize for her crimes? I thought you were all about international law Lu? What happened in this case, inapplicable?
Japan HAS apologized for its crimes. It is China that has not.

Let's see, visiting shrine that honors Class A war criminals as heros then saying he's sorry for Japan's aggressionist past. Hmmm, if that doesn't spell liar to you I don't know what will.
Fourteen war criminals are interred there as are more than a million Japanese war dead.

Wow, are you "overrulling" the Osaka courts ruling that Koizumi, as the PM of Japan, to visit Yasukuni is unconstitutional? The court clearly spelled out that the PM does not have the rights as private citizens do to visit the shrine. They ruled quite clearly that all of the PM's actions are representative of the state.
I didn't overrule the Osaka courts. There is a higher court that this case is currently being appealed to. Under Japanese law, the judgement of the lower court is stayed until the higher court renders its decision.

I'm not talking of that ONE text book, I'm talking about all the text books. All of them gloss over Japan in WWII. Contrast that with German text books- nothing is glossed over, every german national is knowledgable of the occurances of the holocaust.
Have you ever read a Japanese textbook? Can you even read Japanese?

Who's comparing to US text books? The Us never commited a holocaust such as that of Germany or Japan.
No, but the US is guilty for the Trail of Tears, Slavery, the Japanese-American internment, among other things. Unlike China and to a lesser extent Japan, the US does try to address its sins in the classroom.

My sources are a number of friends who are Japanese teachers and who have graduated from Japanese high schools. One of my best friends here is a history teacher (he is my badminton doubles' partner) at the local Japanese school. Those people tell a VERY DIFFERENT story than you do. They are far more credible.

I have never seen nor heard of such reference to beijing. Perhaps you are trying to spell Beiping? or Peiking? I suggest you look up the phonetics before making up words in the future, may add more credibility to your arguments when you reference correctly.
Actually, my reference was correct. It is the Wade-Giles form of 北平, which is still commonly used in Taiwan.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000583.html

Peip'ing
is what you get if you use the Wade-Giles romanization of the Mandarin pronounciation of the Nationalist name.
Peiping
is what you get if you use the Wade-Giles romanization of the Mandarin pronounciation of the Nationalist name but drop the apostrophe.
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/classics/mao/sw4/mswv4_46.html

http://www.marxists.org/espanol/mao/PTC48s.html

Mao Tse-tung
DIRECTIVAS PARA LAS
OPERACIONES EN LA CAMPAÑA
DE PEIPING-TIENTSIN
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0012281.html

Perhaps your credibility would be enhanced if your criticisms of the usage of terms by others actually had any factual basis behind them.

And thus that makes it OK for Japan to be an bad *** right? What kind of bull$hit argument is that? Why you keep going off topic?
I never said that it did. You are putting words in my mouth. Typical ChiCom sympathizer tactic, isn't it.

Again, why are you purposly going off topic? Losing momentum?
Are you so simplistic that you can see the link?

I notice you do not respond to my question but instead again go off in a tangent that is completely irrelevent to the topic. This isn't only about China, this is also about Vietnam, Phillipines, Korea (both koreas), Indonesia (though not so much) and so on and so forth.
Again, Japan has apologized. Japan is now a responsible member of the international community.

Perhaps you need to be educated on the variance between economic aid and war time repartations. Here's the simplified version:
Trust me, I know the technical definition between the two. However, you seem to lack a sophistication of the political nature of Japanese aid.

All contries invaded by Japan (including the US) are entitiled to war reparations from Japan.
WRONG!

San Francisco Peace Treaty: Article 14 said:
(b) Except as otherwise provided in the present Treaty, the Allied Powers waive all reparations claims of the Allied Powers, other claims of the Allied Powers and their nationals arising out of any actions taken by Japan and its nationals in the course of the prosecution of the war, and claims of the Allied Powers for direct military costs of occupation.

If Japan chooses to additionally give economic aid packages to these countries that is thier own decision and has nothing to do with Japan being the original aggressor.
I guarantee you if Japan cut off Overseas Development Assistance to China, they would be frothing at the mouth AND YOU KNOW IT!

Then is China not entitled to recieve reparations (not aid) from Japan? Israel as a nation receives such from Germany, and Israel didn't even exist during WWII.
China is NOT entitled to receive reparations. After all, the PRC didn't even exist in 1945. Seriously, the Peace Treaty of San Francisco is the governing document ending World War II.

AGain, why do you keep going off topic? THis thread is NOT about China, if you like to blabber about CHina's killings start another thread about it and we'll debate about it there, otherwise provide something constructive to the argument as shown in the title of the thread.
Gee, getting a little uncomfortable when the hypocrisy of the Chinese is exposed?

What truth, I don't even know what it is you're talking about.
I know, truth is something you don't deal in very well, is it?
 

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ludahai said:
While Japan undoubtedly committed horrendous crimes in WWII against China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and other countries, they occurred more than sixty years ago. Since then, Japan has become one of the most responsible nations in the international community, while China has become the regional threat and threatens to become the regional aggressor.

However, to say apologies have not been issued is a fabrication.



http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-08/2005-08-15-voa6.cfm?CFID=29183416&CFTOKEN=20923598

That was present PM Koizumi.

PM Maruyama also offerred a formal apology in 1995.

As for the textbook issue, not all Japanese texts whitewash history. There was one approved last year, but it has been adoped by less than one percent of Japan's schools.

Let's also not forget the millions and millions of yen that have been given to counties in the region (China still receives considerable aid despite Peiping's recent virulant anti-Japan rhetoric). This is an even more meaningful form of apology.

I want to know when the ChiComs are going to apologize for their ONGOING crimes against the Tibetans and their own people. How about an apology for the lies in THEIR textbooks?
China is a Communist dictatorship that still runs concentration camps.Something that many countries in the world seem unwilling to admit. Hunger for chinese trade has also made many American companies from GM to MSN to become willing partners of the chinese govt.
 
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jfuh said:
No it did not. Do you think Saddam is at all apologetic to the US, Kuwait, the Kurds?
Japan today claim that it was the fault of western powers, including but not limited to the US, that pushed her to fight in WWII.
Well FDR pushed them to attack the U.S. through the oil embargo that would have destroyed their war fighting capacity in China their only choice was to try a knock out blow against the U.S. navy at Pearl Harbor so they could take the oil controlled by the U.S. in the western Pacific.
 

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ludahai said:
Once they have assumed room temperature and are buried, the attendence at RELIGIOUS ceremonies at the shrine most certainly ARE an internal matter.
Let me re-iterate again, CLASS A WAR CRIMINALS!

ludahai said:
That is the very phrase your ChiCom buddies love to use all the time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. BTW, both of my grandfathers fought for the notion of FREEDOM, something that you perhaps need to learn a little more about if you are going to support the sort of thugs that you do.
If you want to go on with your assumptions Lu make sure you know who it is you are assuming about. My family suffered under imperialist Japanese rule. Don't tell me about support. Who ever said I supported your chicoms?

ludahai said:
In your mind, they are unrelated. However, what makes them related is the RANK HYPOCRICY of complaing about Japan yet wishing to deflect criticism against a regime that is responsible for FAR MORE CHINESE DEATHS AND SUFFERING than the Imperial Japanese Army was ever guilty of.
Again, you like to go off topic. Hypocricy is completely unrelated to this matter. Korea also suffered under imperialist Japan, as did the Philliipines, Vietnam. So what are you saying? Well China did such and such and such, so Japan is off the hook. Why do you keep going off topic on this subject matter?

ludahai said:
Japan HAS apologized for its crimes. It is China that has not.
Japan has?Actions speak louder then words.
I wasn't aware that China had ever invaded Japan or for that matter killed innocent Japanese civilians in cold blood. Your arguments are obviously extending from a bias agaisnt China.

ludahai said:
Fourteen war criminals are interred there as are more than a million Japanese war dead.
Doesn't matter, how many, the fact is they are there. If Germany "inshrined" Hitler you think it'd matter who else was there?

ludahai said:
I didn't overrule the Osaka courts. There is a higher court that this case is currently being appealed to. Under Japanese law, the judgement of the lower court is stayed until the higher court renders its decision.
So I don't see any argument you've made. Untill the higher courts ruling such visits by the prime minister are unconstitutional.

ludahai said:
Have you ever read a Japanese textbook? Can you even read Japanese?
Lol, you forget of my origins lu. Of course I read Japanese.

ludahai said:
No, but the US is guilty for the Trail of Tears, Slavery, the Japanese-American internment, among other things. Unlike China and to a lesser extent Japan, the US does try to address its sins in the classroom.
Japan does not. Dude, this is not about the US nor China nor anyone else, this is about Japan. Get it through your head.
Trial of tears, US domestic affair, Japanese- American internment-- domestic affair, Slavery -- domestic affair.
China -- cultural revolution domestic affair.
Japan WWII war crimes -- INTERNATIONAL affair.

ludahai said:
My sources are a number of friends who are Japanese teachers and who have graduated from Japanese high schools. One of my best friends here is a history teacher (he is my badminton doubles' partner) at the local Japanese school. Those people tell a VERY DIFFERENT story than you do. They are far more credible.
Yes lets elaborate on that for everyone here. You're residing in Japan now? Local japanese school? Want to elaborate on credibility?
My sources are news reports from coorespondants in Japan. I think that is much more credible about how teaching happens in Japan TODAY then your friends who are not teaching in Japan.

ludahai said:
Actually, my reference was correct. It is the Wade-Giles form of 北平, which is still commonly used in Taiwan.
:rofl Whatever you like lu lol.

ludahai said:
I never said that it did. You are putting words in my mouth. Typical ChiCom sympathizer tactic, isn't it.
Yes you did. Argument after argument you scapegoat Japan's responsibility and blame China for something that occured years later. Relationship? Weak.
Thus it's not what you have written, but what your implications seem to be. Now let's see your own words again.
However, what makes them related is the RANK HYPOCRICY of complaing about Japan yet wishing to deflect criticism against a regime that is responsible for FAR MORE CHINESE DEATHS AND SUFFERING than the Imperial Japanese Army was ever guilty of.
ludahai said:
Are you so simplistic that you can see the link?
THere is no link lu. China killing thier own citizens has nothing at all to do with Japan invading China. Perhaps you would liken to link the US's civil war with the US-Spanish war?

ludahai said:
Again, Japan has apologized. Japan is now a responsible member of the international community.

ludahai said:
Trust me, I know the technical definition between the two. However, you seem to lack a sophistication of the political nature of Japanese aid.
One needn't political knowledge to understand common sense.


ludahai said:
Wrong again, I'm speaking of entitlement, perhaps reading would help?

ludahai said:
I guarantee you if Japan cut off Overseas Development Assistance to China, they would be frothing at the mouth AND YOU KNOW IT!
So what? I thought it's already been established the two are unrelated.

ludahai said:
China is NOT entitled to receive reparations. After all, the PRC didn't even exist in 1945. Seriously, the Peace Treaty of San Francisco is the governing document ending World War II.
China as a nation is not entitled no, Chinese citizens are, as are Korean nationals and so on.

ludahai said:
Gee, getting a little uncomfortable when the hypocrisy of the Chinese is exposed?
No, I'm merely pointing out the irrelevance of your arguments specific to this thread. You keep pointing out the hypocrisy of China's government, big deal, hardly to the least Justifies Japan at all.

ludahai said:
I know, truth is something you don't deal in very well, is it?
No, I've never heard the term Chicoms until now, so no I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Well FDR pushed them to attack the U.S. through the oil embargo that would have destroyed their war fighting capacity in China their only choice was to try a knock out blow against the U.S. navy at Pearl Harbor so they could take the oil controlled by the U.S. in the western Pacific.
I guess then it was also FDR's responsibility then that Japan invaded China to begin with in 1937? That is what they are claiming.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
No that's on them.
Wow, I need to break a bottle open, we're in agreement, this really calls for celebration.
Exactly the point. The Us was unhappy with Japan's invasion thus used an oil embargo against Japan. But then a surprise attack? Just a lame *** excuse. Had they not invaded China in the first place, there would've been no embargo and there would've been (well maybe not have been) a Japanese - US conflict.
 
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