• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Vicious dog attack

Grand Mal

bas air son Eachin
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
40,077
Reaction score
21,683
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
I'm against breed-specific laws but stories like this just piss me off.

‘Dog hunt’ underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman | Vancouver Sun

Basically, a 60-something woman was passing by the Macs store when a pit bull leaped on her, hauled her down, mauled her arm so bad that a witness saw the bone ends poking through. The dog's owner comes out of the store, grabs the dog and hustles off.
Now, obviously the dog needs to be put down (and it will be found). But I'm starting to think that the owner needs to be charged as if he committed the assault. Aggravated assault causing bodily harm or whatever the legality is. Major jail time. Make an example of the lowlife bastard.
 

Bodhisattva

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
100,457
Reaction score
21,265
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
I'm against breed-specific laws but stories like this just piss me off.

‘Dog hunt’ underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman | Vancouver Sun

Basically, a 60-something woman was passing by the Macs store when a pit bull leaped on her, hauled her down, mauled her arm so bad that a witness saw the bone ends poking through. The dog's owner comes out of the store, grabs the dog and hustles off.
Now, obviously the dog needs to be put down (and it will be found). But I'm starting to think that the owner needs to be charged as if he committed the assault. Aggravated assault causing bodily harm or whatever the legality is. Major jail time. Make an example of the lowlife bastard.

Dog owners, especially of pit bulls and other dogs that commit these attacks, MUST be charged with the most that the law can throw at them... that guy needs to be put in prison and the dog killed. Poor lady... I hope she recovers as best as she can.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
No way, but there should be a law that in cases like this dog owner needs to self report the incident, and of course their needs to be financial liability, but no criminal liability for the dogs actions.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Criminal negligence is criminal.

Sure, but the courts are in no position to try to figure out that, and they are a swamped cesspool already. If I thought that the law could work and also be just I would consider the option, but given that the law is already used way too often to attempt to solve problems and imaginary problems (because it is the WRONG TOOL for the job) I am not in the mood.
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
88,967
Reaction score
17,989
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Sure, but the courts are in no position to try to figure out that, and they are a swamped cesspool already. If I thought that the law could work and also be just I would consider the option, but given that the law is already used way too often to attempt to solve problems and imaginary problems (because it is the WRONG TOOL for the job) I am not in the mood.

Criminal negligence...

It has already been figured out. Really. The concept had been around a long long time....

Like reckless driving or reckless use of a firearm.

You dog is capable of killing and you left it unattended and out of your control = Criminal negligence.

What exactly is the "imaginary problem" in the OP?

Criminal Trial: Detroit Pit Bull Owner Convicted on Two Counts of Manslaughter After His Dogs Brutally Killed a Young Boy
Criminal Trial: Detroit Pit Bull Owner Convicted on Two Counts of Manslaughter After His Dogs Brutally Killed a Young Boy - DogsBite.org

Orange County Jury Finds Pit Bull Owner Guilty of Criminal Negligence in Dog Attack
Pit bull owner charged with murder for California mauling death
Pit bull owner charged with murder for California mauling death - NY Daily News
 
Last edited:

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Criminal negligence...

It has already been figured out. Really. The concept had been around a long long time....

Like reckless driving or reckless use of a firearm.

You dog is cap[able of killing and you left it unattended and out of your control = Criminal negligence.

How often is that, what percentag of the dogs in America are capable of killing?

I am betting that it runs like it does with humans, that given that they have the power almost all of them, but I will await your answer.
 
Last edited:

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
88,967
Reaction score
17,989
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
How often is that, what percentag of the dogs in America are they capable of killing?

I am betting that it runs like it does with humans, that given that they have the power almost all of them, but I will await your answer.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd?

Often enough to be a problem,.

2014 dog bite fatality statistics

42 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2014. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 64% (27) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.2

Together, pit bulls (27) and rottweilers (4), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 74% of the total recorded deaths in 2014. This same combination also accounted for 74% of all fatal attacks during the 10-year period of 2005 to 2014.

The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 10-year period. From 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 38, about one citizen every 96 days.

In the year of 2014, the combination of pit bulls (27), rottweilers (4) and mastiff-type guard dogs and war dogs (4) -- the types used to create "baiting" bull breeds and fighting breeds -- accounted for 83% (35) of all dog bite-related fatalities.

2014 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org


Dog Bite Fatality Chart
-
2005 to 2014
During this 10 - year period, 326 Americans suffered death due to dog bite injury.

2014 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd?

Often enough to be a problem,.

2014 dog bite fatality statistics

42 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2014. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 64% (27) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.2

Together, pit bulls (27) and rottweilers (4), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 74% of the total recorded deaths in 2014. This same combination also accounted for 74% of all fatal attacks during the 10-year period of 2005 to 2014.

The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 10-year period. From 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 38, about one citizen every 96 days.

In the year of 2014, the combination of pit bulls (27), rottweilers (4) and mastiff-type guard dogs and war dogs (4) -- the types used to create "baiting" bull breeds and fighting breeds -- accounted for 83% (35) of all dog bite-related fatalities.

2014 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org


Dog Bite Fatality Chart
-
2005 to 2014
During this 10 - year period, 326 Americans suffered death due to dog bite injury.

2014 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

Not what I was going for, though this is a small problem. 319 million people in this country and less that 50 die by dog per year??!!. Not something that is going to be high on my priority list, because we have a ton of BIG problems, this does not come close to making the cut.

My point was that all dogs can kill a baby physically, and almost all have the inner capacity as well, just as humans do. If you are going to make a human responsible for this creature doing what is in its nature and ability to do then I demand a very good reason for doing it.

So far I am not hearing it.
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
88,967
Reaction score
17,989
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Not what I was going for, though this is a small problem. 319 million people in this country and less that 50 die by dog per year??!!. not something that is going to be high on my priority list, because we have a ton of BIG problems.

My point was that all dogs can kill a baby physically, and almost all have the inner capacity as well, just a humans do. If you are going to make a human responsible for this creature doing what is in its nature and ability to do then I demand a very good reason for doing it.

So far I am not hearing it.

Wow... Just wow.

It's your dog, it's your responsibility......

Simple enough? Clear? Understandable?

In cases where the owner is CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT they should be tried for CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE....
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Wow... Just wow.

It's your dog, it's your responsibility......

Simple enough? Clear? Understandable?

In cases where the owner is CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT they should be tried for CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE....

I dont own/control the heart/mind of my dog, if I were Christian I would say that God does, but use what ever substitute your belief system allows. I remember long ago watching either Siegfried or Roy remind a television audience that no matter how docile their beasts looked anyone of them could kill them at any time for no reason known to a human, because the wild never fully leaves them..... they damn well never forgot that. That thinking contributes to my views here.

Justice demands that you dont hold a human responsible for a reality that was beyond that humans control and foresight, and I for sure dont have enough confidence in this ****ed up "justice" system to expect them to do this anywhere nears right.

So I take a pass on the project.
 
Last edited:

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
88,967
Reaction score
17,989
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I dont own/control the heart/mind of my dog, if I were Christian I would say that God does, but use what ever substitute your belief system allows. I remember long ago watching either Siegfried or Roy remind a television audience that no matter how docile their beasts looked anyone of them could kill them at any time for no reason known to a human, because the wild never fully leaves them..... they damn well never forgot that. That thinking contributes to my views here.

OMFG.....

You don't control your dog?

DON'T OWN ONE THAT CAN KILL.

We have owned between 2-4 dogs for the last two decades.

ONE was a known biter. And we took special precautions with that ONE dog because of the potential.

Guess how many people she mauled.... Zero. Why? We took control of the situation.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
OMFG.....

You don't control your dog?

DON'T OWN ONE THAT CAN KILL.

We have owned between 2-4 dogs for the last two decades.

ONE was a known biter. And we took special precautions with that ONE dog because of the potential.

Guess how many people she mauled.... Zero. Why? We took control of the situation.

I am all for reporting requirements and putting down problem dogs, I am for financial liability of the owners, but criminal responsibility is a bridge too far for the very good reasons I gave you. I have a dog that was a rescue who had a super traumatic first few weeks, which included eating her siblings, who bum rushed a neighbor girl and snipped at her dress. It was reported, if the like happens again she gets put down by order of the state. I am fine with that. I have thought on this subject for YEARS ......I have given my views and analysis here to you in what I believe to be understandable english.....dont fool yourself in to believing that you are going to change my mind with your skimpy and feeble arguments.

:bon_voyag
 
Last edited:

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
88,967
Reaction score
17,989
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I am all for reporting requirements and putting down problem dogs, I am for financial liability of the owners, but criminal responsibility is a bridge too far for the very good reasons I gave you. I have a dog that was a rescue who had a super traumatic first few weeks, which included eating her siblings, who bum rushed a neighbor girl and snipped at her dress. It was reported, if the like happens again she gets put down by order of the state. I am fine with that. I have also though about this subject and I have given my views and analysis. But dont fool yourself that you are going to change my mind with your feeble arguments.

:bon_voyag

If you are CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT you should be charged with CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE. You gave no good reasons for not doing so.

It matters nought if it is for Pit-bulls, Poison, or a .357 S&W.......

Please never buy a Pit-bull or Rottweiler for the sake of friends and family.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
OMFG.....

You don't control your dog?

DON'T OWN ONE THAT CAN KILL.

We have owned between 2-4 dogs for the last two decades.

ONE was a known biter. And we took special precautions with that ONE dog because of the potential.

Guess how many people she mauled.... Zero. Why? We took control of the situation.

It's like with kids except you can even lock the latter up.
 

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
It's like with kids except you can even lock the latter up.

YOu used to be a kid, that you can understand and deal with.

Now tell me that you used to be a dog...

See the problem do you??
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,869
Reaction score
20,915
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Wow... Just wow.

It's your dog, it's your responsibility......

Simple enough? Clear? Understandable?

In cases where the owner is CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT they should be tried for CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE....

As an owner of a Pitt myself, I can agree with this.
 
Last edited:

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
45,404
Reaction score
11,744
Location
Olympia Wa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
As an owner of a PItt myself, I can agree with this.

So what is your theory, that you can over come bad genetics and keep the dog from doing bad?

That you should be able to see the problem and put the dog down before they harm?

You sir have my interest and the floor.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
YOu used to be a kid, that you can understand and deal with.

Now tell me that you used to be a dog...

See the problem do you??

The thing is that that difference is not relevant here.
 

Fledermaus

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
88,967
Reaction score
17,989
Location
Peoples Republic of California AKA Taxifornia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
So what is your theory, that you can over come bad genetics and keep the dog from doing bad?

That you should be able to see the problem and put the dog down before they harm?

You sir have my interest and the floor.

Be in command and control of your dog... In many cases neighbors have complained about vicious dogs prior to attacks.

CLUE: If your fence can't hold them get a better fence or get rid of the dog.

CLUE: If your leash can't hold them get a better leash (or go to the gym) or get rid of the dog.

CLUE: If your dog can't play nice with others keep him on a leash or get rid of the dog.
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,869
Reaction score
20,915
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So what is your theory, that you can over come bad genetics and keep the dog from doing bad?

That you should be able to see the problem and put the dog down before they harm?

You sir have my interest and the floor.

I don't put myself in a situation where that crap can happen. If my dog (a rescue by the way) is anywhere near people she's on a leash. I made sure she can't get out of the back yard. If something bad happens, I'll take responsibility for it.
 

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
67,122
Reaction score
20,560
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I'm against breed-specific laws but stories like this just piss me off.

‘Dog hunt’ underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman | Vancouver Sun

Basically, a 60-something woman was passing by the Macs store when a pit bull leaped on her, hauled her down, mauled her arm so bad that a witness saw the bone ends poking through. The dog's owner comes out of the store, grabs the dog and hustles off.
Now, obviously the dog needs to be put down (and it will be found). But I'm starting to think that the owner needs to be charged as if he committed the assault. Aggravated assault causing bodily harm or whatever the legality is. Major jail time. Make an example of the lowlife bastard.

i agree 100% for ONE reason .. .

he gathered up his dog and fled the scene abandoning the lady . . THAT makes him guilty of a crime.
 
Top Bottom