Venezuela's president has implimented a forced labor law on it's people (1 Viewer)

[Grim17]

I suppose when socialism fails a nation as it has in Venezuela, and the country continues to be ruled and controlled by die hard socialists who refuse to abandon the system, I guess their choice to mandate forced labor upon their citizens shouldn't come as too much of a surprize to many people... I know it doesn't surprize me.

Venezuela has a new 'forced labor' law that can require people to work in fields
By Alan Hernández
July 28, 2016 | 2:41 pm



International human rights activists are complaining that new laws have introduced forced labour in Venezuela.


"A new decree establishing that any employee in Venezuela can be effectively made to work in the country's fields as a way to fight the current food crisis is unlawful and effectively amounts to forced labor," Amnesty International said in a statement released on Thursday.


President Nicolás Maduro signed a decree at the end of last week that gives powers to the labor ministry to order "all workers from the public and private sector with enough physical capabilities and technical know-how" to join a government drive aimed at increasing food production.


They can be required to work in the agricultural sector for a 60-day period that can be extended for another 60 days "if the circumstances require it."

https://news.vice.com/article/venez...or-law-that-can-require-people-work-in-fields

 

[GhostlyJoe]

This is interesting. At first, I though: This is clearly wrong; forced labor is slavery. Then I though: This isn't all that much different than forced conscription in Israel or even the U.S. Draft. Is forced labor always immoral, even in a crisis? I don't really know.

 

[ecofarm]

This is interesting. At first, I though: This is clearly wrong; forced labor is slavery. Then I though: This isn't all that much different than forced conscription in Israel or even the U.S. Draft. Is forced labor always immoral, even in a crisis? I don't really know.

Venezuela's army is conscription, as is most of Europe and the rest of the world.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

In before the "Socialism is wonderful...they just did it wrong" crowd.

 

[Patrickt]

They didn't do it right. If they had, it would be a workers paradise like Cuba where they have to have strict border control to keep people out.

Why is it these people are our President's allies and Great Britain and Israel are his enemies?

I'm guessing Barack Obama is in a snit saying, "If I had one more Supreme Court Justice or if Eric Holder was still running the DOJ I could do it."

 

[Moderate Right]

So, is the left's version of an MMT job guarantee or the right's version of get up off your lazy ass and work instead of looking for a handout?

 

[LowDown]

This is interesting. At first, I though: This is clearly wrong; forced labor is slavery. Then I though: This isn't all that much different than forced conscription in Israel or even the U.S. Draft. Is forced labor always immoral, even in a crisis? I don't really know.

If it's done lawfully and democratically then it's not a problem.

You know, the way that the Enabling Act was passed in Nazi Germany and laws relegating Jews to subhuman status were passed. Yes, it was all done according to German law by a democratically elected government.

Some laws are wrong regardless of the authority that enacted them. I would assume that laws mandating involuntary servitude are wrong.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

I wouldn't want to be forced into labor of any kind. I work hard in disciplines of my own choosing, in service to goals of my own choosing. That's a freedom I cherish. However, there are times when you do what you must in service to your family or your community.

Still, the more I think about it, I don't agree with this policy.

Edit: Just wanted to add, the whole "socialism bad, capitalism good" stuff is just juvenile rationalization. A mixed economy that favors robust but regulated markets is the most successful and sustainable.

 

[Carjosse]

Venezuela's army is conscription, as is most of Europe and the rest of the world.

Well most of Europe has suspended it.

 

[ecofarm]

Well most of Europe has suspended it.

Checking the wiki, it does appear to be only a few.

 

[Aristaeus]

In reality, it's more like a compulsory reassignment on a temporary basis.
These people are already working, they'll just be working in a different location for a couple of months.

 

[Aristaeus]

They didn't do it right. If they had, it would be a workers paradise like Cuba where they have to have strict border control to keep people out.

Is it any worse than the capitalist paradise of India where millions of people are starving?

 

[David_N]

So, is the left's version of an MMT job guarantee or the right's version of get up off your lazy ass and work instead of looking for a handout?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Exquisitor]

I suppose when socialism fails a nation as it has in Venezuela, and the country continues to be ruled and controlled by die hard socialists who refuse to abandon the system, I guess their choice to mandate forced labor upon their citizens shouldn't come as too much of a surprize to many people... I know it doesn't surprize me.



https://news.vice.com/article/venez...or-law-that-can-require-people-work-in-fields

This is what would eventually happen with Bernie Sanders, a chagrining choice. First we chagrin the rich then after all that money is distributed and spent and gathered up by different rich people we all get chagrined by stagnation and unproductivity.

Trump is also a chagrining choice.

Hillary Clinton as chagrining to because we need these other chagrins for our growth.

There, now I'm talking in the negative again.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Is it any worse than the capitalist paradise of India where millions of people are starving?

India may have the main features of capitalism, but the tradition of the caste system is still very much relevant.

Winners are picked.

 

[RetiredUSN]

And the workers chant............. HUGO! HUGO! HUGO! HUGO! HUGO!

As they march to the fields.

 

[joG]

Is it any worse than the capitalist paradise of India where millions of people are starving?

That is interesting. Cuba is, you see, where India was just before it started to emulate China's opening up to market 'capitalism'. The people have been doing better since then. It takes a lot of time to reorganise allocation. But Cuba is smaller than India and close to a much larger wealthy country. In ten years it could be middle class.

 

[joG]

And the workers chant............. HUGO! HUGO! HUGO! HUGO! HUGO!

As they march to the fields.

Works programmes are fine under some circumstances mostly, because they give people the feeling of something being done. That is why we love to admire FDR but haven't supported public works much since.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Works programmes are fine under some circumstances mostly, because they give people the feeling of something being done. That is why we love to admire FDR but haven't supported public works much since.

FDR also paid the workers a fair wage in exchange for their skills and labor, and the workers happily signed up by the thousands.

President Maduro has basically signed over the people's individual freedoms into the hands of the Labor Ministry. They can be in servitude for as long as the government sees fit.

There is a huge difference between what FDR accomplished, and Maduro's forced labor camp decree.

 

[Aristaeus]

That is interesting. Cuba is, you see, where India was just before it started to emulate China's opening up to market 'capitalism'. The people have been doing better since then. It takes a lot of time to reorganise allocation. But Cuba is smaller than India and close to a much larger wealthy country. In ten years it could be middle class.

Cuba would be in a much better position if it weren't for 50 years of US sanctions.

 

[Aristaeus]

FDR also paid the workers a fair wage in exchange for their skills and labor, and the workers happily signed up by the thousands.

President Maduro has basically signed over the people's individual freedoms into the hands of the Labor Ministry. They can be in servitude for as long as the government sees fit.

There is a huge difference between what FDR accomplished, and Maduro's forced labor camp decree.

It's limited to 60 days, they will get paid, and it's not a forced labour camp.

This is much less worse than the US army draft of Vietnam. It's like a car mechanic being told that he has to spend the next 2 months fixing tractors on a farm instead, but he'll still get paid.

 

[RetiredUSN]

It's limited to 60 days, they will get paid, and it's not a forced labour camp.

This is much less worse than the US army draft of Vietnam. It's like a car mechanic being told that he has to spend the next 2 months fixing tractors on a farm instead, but he'll still get paid.

No, you are wrong.

The Labor Ministry can keep the workers for another 60 days. You will not see any wealthy people sent to the fields either, other than a few figureheads to promote some token propaganda.

 

[Aristaeus]

No, you are wrong.

The Labor Ministry can keep the workers for another 60 days. You will not see any wealthy people sent to the fields either, other than a few figureheads to promote some token propaganda.

A further 60 days if required, which is still more accurate than your claim of "as long as the government sees fit". You also made up some nonsense about labour camps. Like I say, It's far less worse than the US army draft for Vietnam.

 

[RetiredUSN]

A further 60 days if required, which is still more accurate than your claim of "as long as the government sees fit". You also made up some nonsense about labour camps. Like I say, It's far less worse than the US army draft for Vietnam.

Still.... another 60 days of forced labor.

If Maduro's decree isn't a voluntary proposition to the citizens, then it is forced labor regardless of if they are paid or not.

And, they are still labor camps regardless if the the citizens are paid or not.

Please.........get your ducks in a row before you throw out the "nonsense" tag.

 

[Patrickt]

Is it any worse than the capitalist paradise of India where millions of people are starving?

Yes. Starvation in India, however much there is, existed before. It wasn't something that happened suddenly because of a change of leadership or a change of ideology. By all rights, Venezuela should be doing as well as its neighbor, Columbia, but it isn't. Columbia is where the Venezuelans flood across the border to buy basic goods. There is one big difference between Venezuela and Columbia. One had a maniacal socialist dictator, Hugo Chavez, and the other has had presidents who we can't name.

Venezuela vs. Colombia - Country Comparison

Of course, another difference between Venezuela and Columbia is that our socialist president did his best to support Venezuela while he and the Democrats tried to harm Columbia as much as possible.