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Vegetarianism/Veganism

loverofpeace said:
I know this is supposed to be a debate, but seriously, if you have any helpful hints on veganizing, I'd love to hear them

im obviously not a vegetarian, but im sure if you've read this thread, you know that theres a lot more to being a vegan than just not eating animal by-products. you need to pay close attention to your diet and practice things like complementation or a normally healthy, meat-free, diet can backfire on you and cause more health problems than it solves. my only recommendation is to talk with a dietician before starting a strict vegan diet or at consult with people like Kelzie who know what theyre doing for the most part and they can guide you in the right direction.

if vegans could only find it in them to eat fish, all of their problems would be solved haha.
 
FiremanRyan said:
im obviously not a vegetarian, but im sure if you've read this thread, you know that theres a lot more to being a vegan than just not eating animal by-products. you need to pay close attention to your diet and practice things like complementation or a normally healthy, meat-free, diet can backfire on you and cause more health problems than it solves. my only recommendation is to talk with a dietician before starting a strict vegan diet or at consult with people like Kelzie who know what theyre doing for the most part and they can guide you in the right direction.

if vegans could only find it in them to eat fish, all of their problems would be solved haha.

Completely absolutely right. Well except about the fish :mrgreen: . I have researched a ton about proper eating (something averyone should do, not just vegans) and how to make sure one gets enough nutrients. One of the bad raps vegans get is "junk food vegans"...people who eat nothing but white rice and cereal. Another is the phenomena of veganism and anorexia. Meat and dairy products are very high in calories, so many anorerxic people will claim veganism so their diet doesn't concern people

That whole thing about complementing proteins is a little false. It was started be some vegan lady in one of her books (can't remember for the life of me what it was called). She basically said that people have to eat complementing plant proteins together in order to get the full set of essential amino acids. Which is true, different plants have different amino acids. Beans and rice are complementary proteins, sucatash is another. But it is not at all necessary to eat them together. I can eat beans for lunch and rice (or a variety of other starches) for dinner, and still get my full amount of essential amino acids.
 
Kelzie said:
Ah. Simple problems. I was hoping you weren't going to say you have a burning desire for cheese. Although, if you do, my solution is to not eat cheese for 6 months (nasty stuff anyway, very bad for you), and then try vegan cheese (watch out for casein, look for it at health food stores or co-ops). Don't try it before because you will inevitably compare it to real cheese, which it tastes nothing like. It's still good, just not cheese. Anyway the egg problem. Very easy. There's this stuff called egg replacer. Does whatever-it-is eggs do in recipes (helps it rise? I dunno). Again, try health food stores, it's sold in a box. Or if you can't find it, here's a link to buy it online. Can't make omlets with it 'cause it just does the chemical stuff, but tofu omlets are better anyway :lol: . Vegan margarine. Fantastic stuff called Earth Balance. Actually everyone should use it. No hydrogenated oils or trans fatty acids. Make sure that's the only one you get! Some of the others are really scary. I tried one with the consistency of rubber :shock: . Anyway, I buy it at my regular grocery store, but if you can't find it, a health food store will have it. And chocolate. Which would be vegan if they didn't add milk to it. Semisweet chocolate chips are usually okay (they say it is made on machines that processed dairy, but eh...I cut meat at one point with my knives). There also a great brand called Green & Blacks that makes great organic chocolate. Not all of it's vegan, but my favorite is Maya Gold. Anyway, health food store again, or here. Hope this helps. And thanks for the cookie recipe. I'm trying to convert my little brother and sister (already switched my mom, uncle, and another sister), and I figure if I can convince them that they can still eat cookies, it's in the bag


Thank you so much for your help! Seriously, you helped a lot.

And thank you FiremanRyan for your concern and openmindedness to vegans.

P.S. I actually did some research.... if by talking about fish, you're referring to Omega 3 fatty acids, I found other things (vegan, of course) that have that same fatty acid in them: almonds, hempseed, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, walnuts, canola oil, and flax. (Olive oil has a little bitty of it) I even heard that tofu has it, and of course, leafy green vegetables.
 
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loverofpeace said:
Thank you so much for your help! Seriously, you helped a lot.

And thank you FiremanRyan for your concern and openmindedness to vegans.

No problem. If you have any more questions, just ask. ;)
 
Personally I favor a "Balanced" diet of both meat and vegitables. After my friend coerced me to eating a "Asian" diet, and he had really good points. I have nothing against Asians so dont see this as offensive. Asians live longer than Americans, and they also dont show age as much as we do. Their is a catch though. But their diet has both meats, and veggies. Such as these cobinations in which I have eaten:
Appetizer:
Onion broth soup
w/onions and mushrooms

Main Course:

Shrimp and Chicken:

10 Shrimp
2 peices of chicken
1/2 Bell Pepper
2 green Zuccini
1 tbs seseme seeds
1 large onion
2 tbs butter
1 dash of pepper
Add Terriaki sauce to taste

Sides:
Fried Rice:
1 bowl of prepared rice/w shredded carrots
1 tbs butter
Add Terriaki sauce to taste

Not to mention that "Asians" have been eating this diet for thousands of years, and yet their people are very healthy, and live very long lives. So I dont see the argument of "One" food group over another, its all political spin. :spin:
 
I'm getting in on this late, so I don't expect an answer, but I was wondering......?

I have some friends who are strict vegens, the mother, I believe, does it more for health reasons, while her son, does it more for moral reasons...meaning animal welfare..etc.

I've been considering a more vegetarian lifestlye...I actually bought a bag of soy crumbles the other day! LOL Hey...it's a start.

Anyway...what's the motivation? Health? Morals? Both?

Any other reasons?
 
Kelzie said:
Being a vegan, I admit I have a slight bias... :smile: Just wondering what everyone else thinks about vegetarianism and/or veganism. I didn't notice another thread about it, so if there is one, I apologize. Is it even an issue for most people? Is it annoying when vegetarians preach (okay, I suppose vegans do it to)? Any other vegetarians/vegans out there? Ah, so many questions. Any other related that I forgot to mention, please ask.

I don't mind people having their own systems for eating. I have friends who keep the laws of kashrut, those who are vegetarian, those who eat meat, and those who have food restrictions for medical reasons. I don't eat pork or shellfish, but my family does. I like having dinner parties and try very hard to meet people's needs, but to be honest, I am not motivated to learn to cook for vegans. There simply aren't enough of you out there to make it a priority, and there are just too many things you won't eat (If one of my children grow up to be vegan, then I'll learn.). I love cooking for vegetarians, though. And I could live without the lectures - I already know them all.
:)
 
In response to Hoot,

There are many reasons why I went vegetarian and am now pursuing a vegan lifestyle. Firstly, it's really good to the earth. One person going vegetarian improves the world more that if the entire United States recycled and bought hybridized cars. (And I have much more cool little tidbits like that if you want to know any of them) ;) Also, being vegetarian saves the lives of thousands of animals. (So like you said, the moral reasons) Additionally, there are a lot of workers' rights abuses in a slaughter house, not to mention the unethical practices that take place there on a daily basis. It also feels much better physically. I used to run cross country, and being vegetarian felt a lot better and gave me more energy. I also hated the taste of some meats, and pork made me sick. I gave up milk because of all the hormones and crap added to it. And finally, because those who see it don't eat it: 75% of poultry inspectors say they wouldn't eat chicken.

Good luck with your vegetarian efforts! I commend you for your courage to try something new and your openmindedness to vegetarians! If you need any help or tips, there are a lot of people on this thread that can help.
 
Thanks for the responses.

My friends are so adamant they have shoes and belts that look like leather, but are made from some sort of synthetic, I guess?

They don't drink milk or eat eggs.

We were taking the son back to college, and he was picking up supplies at the grocery. I'd ask questions, and he'd tell me what was good...what was bad...he was big on 'organically' grown foods, too...since he's a college kid, I think he exists on a lot of peanut butter! LOL

I went three days with them and hadn't touched any meat at all, of course now I've fallen back in my old ways.

Not sure I could give up seafood...that would be tough?

I'm not too concerned about my health, I think if I become a vegatarian or vegan, it would be for moral reasons. Animal abuse makes me see red.

I was going to do a search on 'factory farming' tonight, but I'm sure the cruelty would alarm me. I'll keep investigating, and try to suppliment my diet with more veggies and less meat, and if you want to throw anymore "tidbit's, my way, I'd love to hear them.
 
Hoot said:
I was going to do a search on 'factory farming' tonight, but I'm sure the cruelty would alarm me. I'll keep investigating, and try to suppliment my diet with more veggies and less meat, and if you want to throw anymore "tidbit's, my way, I'd love to hear them.

Livestock consumes 70% of US grain production. 20 million people die every year from starvation. Americans could potentially feed 100,000,000 people by reducing their intake of meat by just 10%.

One acre of land produces: 30,000 pounds of apples, 40,000 pounds of potatoes, 50,000 pounds of tomatoes, or 250 pounds of beef.

US livestock produces 250,000 pounds of waste per second.

World livestock production is now a significant factor in the emission of 3 out of 4 global warming gases: carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, and methane. Every steak we eat has the same effect as a 25-mile drive in a typical American car. Scientists estimate that more than 60 million tons of methane are emitted each year by cattle. (That's 12% of the total methane released) Additionally, petrochemical fertilizers used to produce feedcrops emit the nitrous oxide. Worldwide, the use of fertilizers has grown from 14 million tons in 1950 to 143 million tons in 1989. Nitrous oxide accounts for 6% of the global warming effects.

Every year, about 125,000 square miles of rain forest are permanently destroyed, bringing about the extinction of about 1,000 plant and animal species. More than 1/4 of all Central American forests have been razed to make pasture for cattle. Nearly 70% of deforested land in Panama and Costa Rica is now pasture.

Producing one pound of feedlot steak results in the loss of 35 pounds of topsoil. It takes 200-1,000 years to form 1 inch of topsoil. The US has lost one third of its topsoil.

It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce one edible pound of beef and 49 gallons of water to produce one edible pound of apples, and nearly half of the total amount of water used annually in the US goes to grow feed and provide drinking water for cattle and other livestock.

80% of the meat produced in the US contain drugs that are passed on to you when you eat meat.
 
Thanks, Lover of Peace, for all the facts...truely shocking.

I was discussing this with a friend and he said..."Well, animals do kill other animals and some animals are vegetarian...just like humans...some eat meat and some don't. If you consider humans as part of the animal kingdom then it's not of of the ordinary for some humans to eat meat."

How would you answer this?
 
Hoot said:
Thanks, Lover of Peace, for all the facts...truely shocking.

I was discussing this with a friend and he said..."Well, animals do kill other animals and some animals are vegetarian...just like humans...some eat meat and some don't. If you consider humans as part of the animal kingdom then it's not of of the ordinary for some humans to eat meat."

How would you answer this?

My response is that we used to fling poop at each other. :mrgreen: Seriously, of course we can eat meat. Whether our systems were designed to eat it is another question, but it can be done. The question is why if you don't have to?

And you really don't have to. Vegans/vegetarians are some of the healthiest people around. Actually, just going vegan increases your life expectancy up to 8 years. So if we obviously don't need to eat meat, why do we? I get, "because it tastes good" a lot. So basically we are killing a creature, must often horribly, so that we can satisfy our taste buds for 15 minutes. It just seems selfish.

And some animals eat plants. They're still part of the animal kingdom.

Anywho, just my 2 cents.

Edited to say:

watch "Meet your meat" by PETA (I think...) for a good look at factory farms. It's graphic though.
 
Hoot said:
Thanks, Lover of Peace, for all the facts...truely shocking.

I was discussing this with a friend and he said..."Well, animals do kill other animals and some animals are vegetarian...just like humans...some eat meat and some don't. If you consider humans as part of the animal kingdom then it's not of of the ordinary for some humans to eat meat."

How would you answer this?

No prob on the facts. Thank you for listening.

As for the question you've posed, no it's not out of the ordinary for humans to eat meat. It's just unnecessary. Humans are lucky in that they can adapt and survive without meat. We don't have to hunt or gather our meals, they're right at the supermarket. With the available resources, I feel that since it is better to go vegetarian, and we have the means to do so, why not? However, your friend did bring up a very interesting point.
 
If God didn't intend for man to eat animals... he wouldn't have made them out of such tasty meat.



*side note: "the big Pamela Anderson/PETA: Boycott KFC" Billboard in Richmond Always makes me hungry for deep fried poultry... and yes I have seen thier videos.... They're chickens, get over it.
 
Kelzie said:
Actually, just going vegan increases your life expectancy up to 8 years.

I don't want to go an extra 8 miserable years without my cheesesteaks...

All of God's creatures are beautiful & wonderful....and they taste delicious with beer.
 
i'm a vegetarian, and i definitely have my beliefs for the decision.

PETA...too far. it's one thing to make those choices yourself,
but displaying theatrical slaughters and rallying restaurants...
too far. it's obnoxious.

veganism...i won't ever go that far.
cows have adapted [through evolution] to produce milk more than
they used to. it became a necessity--the calves are not starving--
and the heffer would die if the milk was not extracted.

...same as chickens. they've adapted to mass-producing eggs.
it's become a natural habit. [albeit these are human faults...they now
exist...and if a vegan really wants to help save some chickens,
start a chicken farm yourself and train them the ways you want.]

i'll never give up eggs either--i'm pro-choice.


those are my opinions... just thought i'd practice my 1st amendment.
 
If God didn't intend for man to eat animals... he wouldn't have made them out of such tasty meat.


well...if you must bring the lord into it...
how about that tasty piece of fruit Eve decided to sample?
pretty tasty.

it's all about temptation.
...and the idea of sacrificing a life for pleasure...
no. no no.



and, for you people who talk about killing plants because they're alive too...
i'm not taking bites out of a tree trunk--the fruit which it produces is
a natural product. an apple is not alive. it cannot survive on its own.
 
.dum.spiro. said:
i'm a vegetarian, and i definitely have my beliefs for the decision.

PETA...too far. it's one thing to make those choices yourself,
but displaying theatrical slaughters and rallying restaurants...
too far. it's obnoxious..

Agree. Although I am also against the pro-life nuts who show up at my school with pictures of aborted fetuses. If I wanted to see those pictures, I would go look for them. But I don't

.dum.spiro. said:
veganism...i won't ever go that far.
cows have adapted [through evolution] to produce milk more than
they used to. it became a necessity--the calves are not starving--
and the heffer would die if the milk was not extracted.

No! Where did you here this from? Cows have not "evolved to produce more milk". Evolution implies a slow, natural change. This is called animal husbandry, and it is completely unnatural. The cows produce so much milk that there bones are leached of calcium and their udders are almost constantly infected.

The calves are taken away for veal. If you drink milk, you are supporting the veal industry. Period. There's no way around it.

And umm...what? Have you ever seen a women die because she doesn't breast feed? Cows produce milk because they have calves. If they don't have calves, they wouldn't produce milk, which is why dairy cows are artificially inseminated every year. And if they're calf dies (or is taken away), their milk dries up, which is why it has to be done every year.

.dum.spiro. said:
...same as chickens. they've adapted to mass-producing eggs.
it's become a natural habit. [albeit these are human faults...they now
exist...and if a vegan really wants to help save some chickens,
start a chicken farm yourself and train them the ways you want.]

i'll never give up eggs either--i'm pro-choice.


those are my opinions... just thought i'd practice my 1st amendment.

Once again no. They haven't adapted to produce egg. By the end of their life cycle, egg-layers bones are so brittle they are broken just by picking them up. That's not adaption. Adaption is dolphins not having legs.
 
Okay, you got me;
evolution and adaptation were definitey unwise words to use.


but, like i said, these are just my beliefs--sense or nonsense.

And umm...what? Have you ever seen a women die because she doesn't breast feed?

...a woman isn't hooked up to a machine to have the milk sucked out of her.
...a woman isn't used for breeding to encourage a regular milk supply.


i'm still on the cow's side--i'm a soy milk fan.
i'm not going to sit down and have a glass of milk, nor pour it in my cereal,
but i will eat cheese and things with milk used to make it.
 
.dum.spiro. said:
Okay, you got me;
evolution and adaptation were definitey unwise words to use.


but, like i said, these are just my beliefs--sense or nonsense.



...a woman isn't hooked up to a machine to have the milk sucked out of her.
...a woman isn't used for breeding to encourage a regular milk supply.


i'm still on the cow's side--i'm a soy milk fan.
i'm not going to sit down and have a glass of milk, nor pour it in my cereal,
but i will eat cheese and things with milk used to make it.

They still don't die. Cows that are rescued aren't milked, and they survive.

Milks just weird anyway. I don't understand why we have come to believe that milk from a different species is necessary to our well being long after we have been weaned off the milk from our own species

I do miss cheese sometimes though..
 
Milks just weird anyway. I don't understand why we have come to believe that milk from a different species is necessary to our well being long after we have been weaned off the milk from our own species


i could not agree with you more.

...i don't so well with thick liquid.
when my parents make me drink milk, i put ice in it.
[i "need the calcium"--because, you know, there aren't vitamins for that, or anything.]
 
.dum.spiro. said:
i could not agree with you more.

...i don't so well with thick liquid.
when my parents make me drink milk, i put ice in it.
[i "need the calcium"--because, you know, there aren't vitamins for that, or anything.]

Vegetables have tons of calcium. Brocolli especially.

Have you heard of the nurses study done at Harvard? It was one of the biggest, longest studies ever conducted. The tracked nurses from almost every country and monitered their diet for links to different disease.

The countries with the most milk consumption had the highest incidence of hip fracture (a common indicator of osteoperosis), while the countries with the lowest milk consumption had the lowest. The animal protein in milk actually causes bones to lose calcium. That's why if you get calcium from plants, you need to intake less.

There's tons of articles out now debunking the milk myth, and arguing that it was started by lobbiests for the dairy board.
 
good to know--i'll have to rebut with that one next time at the dinner table.
:mrgreen:
 
Its amazing vegetarians pouring out this bullshit about health calcium blah blah .

humans are naturally herbivores- Well i think i got more of an instinct to eat bacon than cress "i wuv the animals" who cares.

People ween themselves into vegetarianism they all have to attack people who eat meat because they want it themselves too much.

Its easy when food is plentiful to be vegetarian but cant you see humans are neither go have a nice juicy steak and sign back up to the man club.
 
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