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Vegetarianism/Veganism

Kelzie said:
If they don't comprehend it, than why do they act on it?
Much like the situation you explained earlier. Someone touches a burner and they pull away with out any conscience thought of it, animals can feel pain and pull away, and avoid future similar situations without much conscience thought.

Plants also react to harm... makes you think eh? Just because they react doesn't mean they think.

So what if the brain is still working. They still don't feel pain. Why is it wrong to kill them?
Because they are sentient human being.

Since you have absolutely no way to prove this, I'll just let it go. And it's IRRELEVANT as you are so fond of saying.

Early man (human man, as I might need to clarify) did use tools. It's easily proven through archaeological science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human said:
The original human lifestyle is hunting-gathering...

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_3.htm said:
The earliest archaic Homo sapiens continued to make tools mostly in the Acheulian trendition.

Kelzie said:
If I implied somewhere that we were the same species, I didn't mean to. However, they are our direct evolutionary ancestors, and as such we share many characteristics. The ancestors of horses were herbivores. Horses today are herbivores. The ancestors of tigers were carnivores. Tigers are carnivores. The ancestors of bears were omnivores. Bears are omnivores.
1) If you implied that Humans were all the same species you didn't mean to? Humans are one species, it's the common name for Homo sapien sapien. When we were talking about humans and their tools we were talking about them.

2) The next step in evolution doesn't necessarily share all of it's traits with the last. Humans don't share all their traits with with the species they evolved from (that's is as a matter of fact why they are a different species).

Example:
http://oceanlink.island.net/ask/odontoceti.html#Anchor:%20cows said:
Scientists believe that whales/dolphins evolved from even toed ungulates (hoofed animals) which includes modern day cows and deer. these early animals were carnivorous much like todays wolves but their feet were like those of cows and horses.

Hmmmmm, if this carnivorous hoofed animal evolved into both herbivore cows and deer and carnivorous dolphins that means that carnivores can evolve into herbivores and vica versa. All animals evolved from the same organism anyway, and it just doesn't make sense that everything that it evolved into has to eat the same stuff :p

So, early humans (humans, not apes) had tools and hunted and gathered, so they ate meat. And herbivores can evolve into carnivores (or omnivores).

Kelzie said:
We did share a common ancestor, but regardless, our ancestors have been herbivores for 3.8 million years.
Again, it doesn't matter. (irrelevant :D)

Kelzie said:
Seriously, animals do just fine without human interference. They always have. It's called nature.
Nature? Nature is doing a good job of taking care of animals? Are you suggesting that animals eating each other is better than people eating them?

aquapub said:
With this, and the horrific damage that meat does to your liver
Isn't this damage caused more by a lack of vitamins and minerals found in non-meat foods when people eat too much meat, and not because of the meat itself?
 
Kelzie said:
Originally Posted by Kelzie
It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat. If the US, just the US, dropped their meat consumption by 10%, it would free up 12 MILLION TONS of grain for human consumption. Which could feed 60 million people, basically eliminating world hunger.

But who wants to eat grain for the rest of their life?



Almost all mammals have canines. Including horses. Do you think they're supposed to eat meat? And it's molars. Again, something all mammals have.

Yes I suppose that is true....But I still think all of my other points are valid.
QUOTE]
 
Hey Kelzie, I raced a mouse the other day, I won. I also took on my neighbor’s kitten, I find baby animals much easier to catch, I would have caught and eaten the little fellow with my bare hands but my neighbor was watching. I also tried my turtle prying theory out, that was good turtle vittles you missed there. :mrgreen:
 
Kelzie. Heres an example of why we should kill and eat animals.

Bears maul people all the time, without them being near their homes or cubs.
Komodo Dragons kill children all the time.
Jaguars and Leapords kill you on sight.
Sharks attack swimmers and surfers.
Snakes bite people.
Elk wreck your trees and yard, and will kill you on occasions if hungry.
Wolves and coyotes attack in packs.

Now why would we not kill them? We feel pain just like they do, but they still seem to kill us off.
 
Ryuken said:
Kelzie. Heres an example of why we should kill and eat animals.

Bears maul people all the time, without them being near their homes or cubs.
Komodo Dragons kill children all the time.
Jaguars and Leapords kill you on sight.
Sharks attack swimmers and surfers.
Snakes bite people.
Elk wreck your trees and yard, and will kill you on occasions if hungry.
Wolves and coyotes attack in packs.

Now why would we not kill them? We feel pain just like they do, but they still seem to kill us off.

I'll get to your point in a minute. First...elk kill humans if they are hungry?!? Elk are herbivores.

Second, I always find it interesting that when humans try to validate why they eat meat, they always compare us to the worst aspect of animals. Namely, that they don't have the intellectual capacity to choose their actions. Why should we choose to be like animals? I thought that was what seperated us from them, that we choose not to be.

When a wolf attacks a human, he doesn't consider the options. It is a reaction either to hunger or to being threatened. It is not done with malicious intent. When we eat a burger, we have a choice. We can either cause pain and suffering to a creature so that we can satisfy our taste buds, or we can eat something else that is not only better for us, but does not require the death of a living creature.

I don't think the question should be why do animals cause humans pain, because they don't have a choice. It's why do humans cause animals pain, because we do.
 
Kelzie said:
We can either cause pain and suffering to a creature so that we can satisfy our taste buds, or we can eat something else that is not only better for us, but does not require the death of a living creature.


"Tomorrow is harvest day, but to the carrots it is the holocaust."
Keenan Maynard

Oh, and yesterday I raced a opossum, I won.
:2wave:
 
gdalton said:
"Tomorrow is harvest day, but to the carrots it is the holocaust."
Keenan Maynard

Oh, and yesterday I raced a opossum, I won.
:2wave:

Liar, liar, liiaaar. :nahnah:
 
gdalton said:
If I send pictures, will you believe me then?

Yeah, but I want it of the finish line. Preferably a slo-mo video.
 
Kelzie said:
Yeah, but I want it of the finish line. Preferably a slo-mo video.

I'm on it. I've been having an armadillo from the neighbor hood eye balling me lately, so I think I will challenge him next.:devil:
 
Oh....yea lol I forgot elk were herbivores, but they still kill humans.

And animals have a choice. I was walking down a back road with some friends and a whole pack of coyotes started running at us from the woodline. They had a choice to keep fighting amongst themselves, but they decided to come after us. If they got up on us, there's not really a way to survive against them without a gun.
 
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gdalton said:
I'm on it. I've been having an armadillo from the neighbor hood eye balling me lately, so I think I will challenge him next.:devil:

LOL thats one of the funniest things I've read all day. :2funny:
 
Ryuken said:
Oh....yea lol I forgot elk were herbivores, but they still kill humans.

And animals have a choice. I was walking down a back road with some friends and a whole pack of coyotes started running at us from the woodline(it wasn't a small pack, they were linining a field). It's a good thing that they were pretty far off and there was a house with light or I might not be alive or I might be disabled or missing a limb. They had a choice to keep fighting amongst themselves, but they decided to come after us. If they got up on us, there's not really a way to survive against them without a gun.

How in the world do you know what the coyotes were thinking? They probably were a pack in the first place, not fighting each other. And you probably wandered into their territory, which means they were defending themselves. They didn't sit down and discuss the options among themselves, or have a vote. They are ANIMALS. They can't choose things like that. It's instinctual.
 
Because I was there and they were obviosuly fighting, all the yelps and snarls.
 
I ate a salad, and some pop-corn today. I'm on my way to becoming a Vegan.. OH NOES!

No meat in today's foods!
 
Ryuken said:
Because I was there and they were obviosuly fighting, all the yelps and snarls.

They were probably playing.
 
Arch Enemy said:
I ate a salad, and some pop-corn today. I'm on my way to becoming a Vegan.. OH NOES!

No meat in today's foods!

:mrgreen: I have a pop corn addiction. It's pretty bad. One of the few times I've cheated was because of pop corn. I hadn't had it for a week, and I called my sister to bring some home. She brought home....butter flavored! I ate it anyway.
 
Cheated?

Are you not allowed to...

oh Butter.

That's crazy.
 
Arch Enemy said:
Cheated?

Are you not allowed to...

oh Butter.

That's crazy.

Crazy like a fox. ;)
 
Because I was there and they were obviosuly fighting, all the yelps and snarls.
When I was a kid I had a puppy, and when it was plyaing with other dogs at first I thought they were trying to eat each other :D
Dogs play like that all the time.
 
-Demosthenes- said:
When I was a kid I had a puppy, and when it was plyaing with other dogs at first I thought they were trying to eat each other :D
Dogs play like that all the time.

Awww, puppies...how they do play like they are doing to naw eachothers heads off.

More on topic...
I was a vegetarian for many years, then I woke up one day and realized I wanted a hamburger. I really wanted one. So I had one. Now, I am no longer in that crazy crowd of spinach spies. Anyone want to split a burger...or crazier yet..a cheese burger. :shock: :2rofll:
 
Vegetarians/vegans make me laugh. I will eat the **** out of a steak! Also hebivores have multiple stonachs, Humans do not. Let me bite you and find out how sharp my front teeth are. LOL, I am just getting your goat.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Vegetarians/vegans make me laugh. I will eat the **** out of a steak! Also hebivores have multiple stonachs, Humans do not. Let me bite you and find out how sharp my front teeth are. LOL, I am just getting your goat.

Horses don't. Neither do giraffes or elephants, or gazelle, or deer. BAM. There goes your theory. Nice try. :2wave:
 
Kelzie said:
Horses don't. Neither do giraffes or elephants, or gazelle, or deer. BAM. There goes your theory. Nice try. :2wave:

Regardless, my system doesn't kick back a nice bloody steak! Hoorah for omnivores!
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Regardless, my system doesn't kick back a nice bloody steak! Hoorah for omnivores!

Horses have been seen eating road kill before. Are you trying to say they're omnivores? Herbivores can eat meat, just like carnivores can eat plants. It's just not what their system was designed to digest. Hence the large number of conditions that have been linked to eating meat. Heart attacks, high cholesterol, prostate cancer, high blood pressure, the list goes on.
 
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