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Vegetarianism/Veganism

Bro

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Hmm, I do agree that a vegetarian diet is superior to a diet that is almost totally full of meat (obvious from scientific studies). However, it is far too bland and untasty for me personally. I would say about 95% of my meals are non-meat such as grains, pasta, brown rice, etc. However, I definitely like to have the occassional meal that contains chicken. I would find it hard to believe that this type of diet is less healthy than a strictly vegetarian diet. I also eat lots of fish which is very healthy (although recent evidence of high mercury levels in some types of fish).

I believe that humans are mostly meant to eat non-meats such as nuts and veges. However, early Homo sapiens did eat insects which would be classified as meat.

Yes, the real debate is whether we SHOULD eat meat since we have the ability to choose due to our neo cortex. It is true that most of our meat products come from animals that have been severely abused and treated with prohormones and steroids. However, I couldn't place myself on either extreme: a big meat-eater nor a vegetarian. Both sides of the extreme are either too unhealthy or too bland. Maintaining a balance is always good.

One last thing, I find vegetarians have a tendency to be way too nick picky about their health. I say relax, you could be dead any day..whose to say tomorrow isn't your last. Quality of life is more important than quantity and the occassional rib will make no difference to one's length of life. Have fun and eat those juicy ribs for a change.
 

gfytt689

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Meat just tastes good and makes me happy.lol. thats why i eat meat. and chicken when made right tastes so good.lol. and i just like that stuff.
 

loverofpeace

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Bro said:
Hmm, I do agree that a vegetarian diet is superior to a diet that is almost totally full of meat (obvious from scientific studies). However, it is far too bland and untasty for me personally. I would say about 95% of my meals are non-meat such as grains, pasta, brown rice, etc. However, I definitely like to have the occassional meal that contains chicken. I would find it hard to believe that this type of diet is less healthy than a strictly vegetarian diet. I also eat lots of fish which is very healthy (although recent evidence of high mercury levels in some types of fish).

I believe that humans are mostly meant to eat non-meats such as nuts and veges. However, early Homo sapiens did eat insects which would be classified as meat.

Yes, the real debate is whether we SHOULD eat meat since we have the ability to choose due to our neo cortex. It is true that most of our meat products come from animals that have been severely abused and treated with prohormones and steroids. However, I couldn't place myself on either extreme: a big meat-eater nor a vegetarian. Both sides of the extreme are either too unhealthy or too bland. Maintaining a balance is always good.

One last thing, I find vegetarians have a tendency to be way too nick picky about their health. I say relax, you could be dead any day..whose to say tomorrow isn't your last. Quality of life is more important than quantity and the occassional rib will make no difference to one's length of life. Have fun and eat those juicy ribs for a change.


Ooh - you might want to try the veggie chicken. It's quite good. And I'm guessing that many may not like the taste of ribs anyways.
 

Kelzie

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If I did die tomorrow, I would like to leave this world knowing that I have caused as little suffering as possible.

And you need to pick yourself up a good vegan cookbook. I have never had a bland vegan meal. :mrgreen:
 

gfytt689

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Ive had vegeterian meals. my aunt is vegeterian so when ever i go there she always has the meal which has meat and then some soy food. and a couple times ive ate the soy food. and the truth is that i dont like soy hot dogs, or soy chicken or any other soy foods. but i can see why vegeterians and vegans eat food made with soy. even though i still think being a vegan takes this to an exetreme. vegans and vegeterians have reasons on why they eat soy food, and thats to save animals. but people who eat meat, like me dont really have a reason to eat it. I've been trying to think of a good reason over the past few days, but couldnt think of one besides that it tastes sooooo good :smile: .
 

Kelzie

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gfytt689 said:
Ive had vegeterian meals. my aunt is vegeterian so when ever i go there she always has the meal which has meat and then some soy food. and a couple times ive ate the soy food. and the truth is that i dont like soy hot dogs, or soy chicken or any other soy foods. but i can see why vegeterians and vegans eat food made with soy. even though i still think being a vegan takes this to an exetreme. vegans and vegeterians have reasons on why they eat soy food, and thats to save animals. but people who eat meat, like me dont really have a reason to eat it. I've been trying to think of a good reason over the past few days, but couldnt think of one besides that it tastes sooooo good :smile: .

Soy hot dogs are just okay. I prefer tofu myself.

And why do you say vegans are extreme?

And there is none besides that. :mrgreen:
 

stsburns

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They tell people what too eat, how is that not extreme? Yes, I respect that there are people who can't eat meat for health reason's, but to do it intentionally is a whole other issue? What is your motive for not eating meat? What are the benefits of a vegitarian diet?
 
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gfytt689

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Kelzie said:
Soy hot dogs are just okay. I prefer tofu myself.

And why do you say vegans are extreme?

And there is none besides that. :mrgreen:

vegans are taking it to an extreme because they dont eat meat, they dont drink milkk from a cow, they dont have bread unless its made entirely of soy. everything in a vegans life is soy. they have veggie burgers on a soy bun. i dont get whats wrong with eating an egg, or milk, and i think thats taking it to the extreme.
 

loverofpeace

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gfytt689 said:
vegans are taking it to an extreme because they dont eat meat, they dont drink milkk from a cow, they dont have bread unless its made entirely of soy. everything in a vegans life is soy. they have veggie burgers on a soy bun. i dont get whats wrong with eating an egg, or milk, and i think thats taking it to the extreme.

Well, there's lots of hormones and crap in millk (and I personally like soymilk better, it's easier on my stomach), and many would argue that the way milk is produced is unethical. Additonally, there are a lot of unethical practices involved with eggs and chickens. I can certainly give you more details on these if you would like (as I'm sure lots of others on this thread can too), but right now, I am going to bed.

Oh, one more thing: no, not everything in a vegan's life is soy. Look harder. And I don't think trying to live an ethical lifestyle is extreme.
 

stsburns

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So if I drink Eggnog or Milk does that make me a bad person?
 

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Hey,
Yes, I agree that the majority of a vegetarians diet tends to be soy or tofu. I think it's such a waste of time trying to adhere to strict dietary rules. If I see an egg, I'll cook it and eat it. It has loads of iron, albumin, and cholesterol (which is bad if taken too much). Such quantities of iron and protein are difficult to come by in the plant world. Red meat for instance has huge amounts of iron (heme iron). This heme iron is far more easily absorbed by the human body than any other type of iron. Iron defficiency is very common and far more so in the vegetarian population. Most vegetarians must resort to supplements and that's something that I personally would not like to do. Us omnivores truly have the best of both worlds.

Bro
 

mikhail

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How many vegetarian athletes are there?
 
H

HTColeman

Well, half of these reasons I have no knowledge of, but I will reply to those that I do.

Kelzie said:
Hooray! A debate. Ahem. As to the "food chain" belief, aka humans are meant to eat meat:

Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

That is probably due to a lack of need, I don't think humans ever had to tear apart an animal for food (Tacky way to say it, but only way I could think of)


Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

I have 4 sharp teeth, for whatever reason, me and my dad have extra sharp canine teeth, he got his "blunted", I've cut my toungue many times from biting it, so yea they are sharp. We also have rear molars, hence humans are omnivores, like bears.


I don't know about the rest of the stuff, I would charge it to the fact that we are omnivores, so we have to digest meat and veggies (well, most have to)
 

Kelzie

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gfytt689 said:
vegans are taking it to an extreme because they dont eat meat, they dont drink milkk from a cow, they dont have bread unless its made entirely of soy. everything in a vegans life is soy. they have veggie burgers on a soy bun. i dont get whats wrong with eating an egg, or milk, and i think thats taking it to the extreme.

99.9% of bread has no milk in it. I have never picked up a loaf of bread and had to put it back. Milk contributes to the veal industry. There is not a single milk producer that doesn't sell the male calves to make veal. And veal is torture IMO. Eggs, besides the fact that they aren't very good for you, are taken from chickens raised in incredibly cruel conditions. They are debeaked with no pain killers, etc, etc. I could continue listing the horrors, but I have a feeling you don't want to hear it, and it won't change your mind anyway.

Bro said:
Hey,
Yes, I agree that the majority of a vegetarians diet tends to be soy or tofu. I think it's such a waste of time trying to adhere to strict dietary rules. If I see an egg, I'll cook it and eat it. It has loads of iron, albumin, and cholesterol (which is bad if taken too much). Such quantities of iron and protein are difficult to come by in the plant world. Red meat for instance has huge amounts of iron (heme iron). This heme iron is far more easily absorbed by the human body than any other type of iron. Iron defficiency is very common and far more so in the vegetarian population. Most vegetarians must resort to supplements and that's something that I personally would not like to do. Us omnivores truly have the best of both worlds.

Bro

Umm...the majority of my diet is starch, just like everyones diet should be. After that is vegetables, than beans/tofu, than fats. I try not to eat to much tofu, because beans have a lot of iron. My iron is just fine. If other vegans/vegetarians do not eat a balanced diet, it is hardly the fault of vegetarianism. The only supplement I take is B12, and the cow you eat takes the same supplement. No animal produces B12 in enough of a quantity that they don't need it from elsewhere.

mikhail said:
How many vegetarian athletes are there?

:2wave: I consider myself an athlete. I run about 3 miles a day, more on Sunday. I ran a 10-mile race last October. I was training to run a half marathon this year (13 miles) but I tripped up the stairs, and broke my foot. It was a very graceful moment. :lol:

But I suppose you're looking for pros huh?

Hank Aaron (home run champion in major league baseball)
B J Armstrong (US Basketball star)
Al Beckles (body builder)
Sorya Bonali (ice skater)
Les Brown (veteran runner)
Peter Burwash (tennis)
Andreas Cahling (body builder)
Andreas Cahling (bodybuilder)
Chris Campbell (1980 world champion wrestler)
Joanna Conway (ice skater)
Sylvia Cranston (triathlete)
Sally Eastall (Marathon runner - UK No 2, vegan)
Di Edwards (runner, Olympic semi-finalist)
Katie Fitzgibbon (marathon runner)
Clare Francis (sailer)
Louis Freitas (body builder)
Carol Gould (marathon runner)
Estelle Gray (cyclist)
Sammy Green (runner)
Ruth Heidrich (3-time Ironman finisher, marathoner, age-group record holder, Pres. Vegetarian Society of Honolulu) (vegan)
Sally Hibberd (British Women's Mountain Bike Champion)
Sharon Hounsell (Miss Wales Bodybuilding Champion)
Desmond Howard (formerly w/Washington Redskins, now w/Jacksonville Jaguars)
Roger Hughes (Welsh National Ski Champion)
David Johnson (BAA coach)
Kathy Johnson (Olympic Gymnast)
Alan Jones (British ski jumper)
Billie Jean King (tennis champion)
Killer Kowalski (wrestler)
Jack LaLanne (Fitness guru) (vegan)
Donnie LaLonde (Former Light Heavyweight Champion of the World. (Lost title to Sugar Ray Leonard))
Tony LaRussa (Manager of St. Louis Cardinals - US team)
Silken Laumann (Olympic rower)
Judy Leden (British, European & World Hang Gliding champion)
Marv Levey (Buffalo Bills Coach)
Jutta Müller (multiple Windsurfing World Cup Champion)
Jack Maitland (triathlete and fell runner)
Cheryl Marek (cyclist)
Leslie Marx (fencer;1996 woman's epee national champion)
Kirsty McDermott (runner)
Lindford McFarquar (body builder)
Robert Millar (cyclist)
Katherine Monbiot (world champion arm wrestler and nutritionist) (vegan)
Monika Montsho (weightlifter, 2 x runnerup GB Championships 60kg, NW woman weightlifter of the year 1991)
Edwin Moses
Martina Navratilova (Retired Tennis Champion)
Julie Ann Niewiek (Basketball commentator)
Paavo Nurmi
Robert Parish (Center - Warriors, Celtics, Hornets, Bulls)
Bill Pearl (Bodybuilder, Mr America)
Bill Pearl (Mr. Universe and bodybuilder)
Anthony Peeler (NBA Grizzlies basketball player)
Dave Scott (five time winner of the Ironman Triathlon) (vegan)
Debbie Spaeth-Herring (Georgia State power-lifter)
Lucy Stephens (triathlete - vegan)
Jacques Vaughn (All American point guard, #1-ranked Univ of KS Jayhawks)
Kirsty Wade (runner)
Bill Walton (basketball player)

In case you're interested, here's some other famous vegetarians/vegans:

Louisa May Alcott, writer
Clara Barton, nurse and the first president of the American Red Cross
Charles Darwin, author and scientist
Leonardo da Vinci, artist
Isadora Duncan, dancer
Thomas Edison, inventor
Albert Einstein, physicist
Ben Franklin, American statesman, philosopher and scientist
Mahatma Gandhi, Indian independence leader (duh)
Jerry Garcia, musician, member of Grateful Dead
Sylvester Graham, inventor
Doug Henning, magician
John Harvey Kellogg, physician and scientist
Linda McCartney
Bob Marley, musician
John Milton, writer
Sir Isaac Newton, physicist
River Phoenix, actor
Plato, physicist and writer
AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder of ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness)
Pythagoras, Greek philosopher
Swami Satchidananda, spiritual leader
Albert Schweitzer, musician, physician, Nobel Peace Prize winner
George Bernard Shaw, writer and Nobel Prize Laureate in Literature
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelly, English novelist
Percey Bysshe Shelley, English poet
Upton Sinclair, author
Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer & Nobel Prize winner
Socrates, Greek philosopher
Benjamin Spock, author and pediatrician
Henry David Thoreau, writer
Leo Tolstoy, author
Vincent Van Gogh, painter
Voltaire, French writer
HG Wells, author
John Wesley, religious leader
 

Kelzie

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HTColeman said:
Well, half of these reasons I have no knowledge of, but I will reply to those that I do.



That is probably due to a lack of need, I don't think humans ever had to tear apart an animal for food (Tacky way to say it, but only way I could think of)

Before we had tools, what did we do? We didn't eat meat,


HTColeman said:
I have 4 sharp teeth, for whatever reason, me and my dad have extra sharp canine teeth, he got his "blunted", I've cut my toungue many times from biting it, so yea they are sharp. We also have rear molars, hence humans are omnivores, like bears.

All herbivores have rear molars. Many have canines (like horses). But the fact is that you and your dad's teeth are abnormal.

HTColeman said:
I don't know about the rest of the stuff, I would charge it to the fact that we are omnivores, so we have to digest meat and veggies (well, most have to)

Except. we don't have to eat meat. So if we don't have to eat it, why would you say we're omnivores?
 

Pallid Amaranth

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See, that's awesome. There are an incredible amount of people who are/were vegetarian/vegan. I myself am a vegetarian, still trying to become vegan. :3oops: But, haven't gotten there yet.

The reason so many people look down on vegetarianism, etc, is they don't understand it. They think all we eat is a big heaping bowl of lettus, and we're severly malnutritioned. That's completely not true. There are a wide variety of foods, and if a vegetarian plans their diet right, they can get all their essential nutrients, and not the bad ones!
 

Kelzie

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Pallid Amaranth said:
See, that's awesome. There are an incredible amount of people who are/were vegetarian/vegan. I myself am a vegetarian, still trying to become vegan. :3oops: But, haven't gotten there yet.

The reason so many people look down on vegetarianism, etc, is they don't understand it. They think all we eat is a big heaping bowl of lettus, and we're severly malnutritioned. That's completely not true. There are a wide variety of foods, and if a vegetarian plans their diet right, they can get all their essential nutrients, and not the bad ones!

One of the things that I've learned is that trying to live without harming anyone will drive you crazy. :lol: There's animal products in everything. Tires have animal products in them. So unless you plan on hoofing it everywhere, you are not a true "vegan". I do the best I can. If the best someone else can do is be a vegetarian or not eat red meat, they are doing more than most other people.

:lol: And it's so true about salads. And I don't even like salads that much.
 

loverofpeace

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stsburns said:
So if I drink Eggnog or Milk does that make me a bad person?

Whoa - somebody is on the defensive! No, it does not make you a bad person. We are just posting our reasons and the benefits of being vegetarian/vegan. No one is ordering you what to eat or judging you based on your consumption of eggnog. I only hope that you will gain new perspective on a different lifestyle. Whether you end up giving up eggnog and milk, well, that is entirely your choice.
 

loverofpeace

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Pallid Amaranth~

Completely off topic, but I really like the picture you include in your signature!
 
H

HTColeman

Kelzie said:
Before we had tools, what did we do? We didn't eat meat,

Actually, now that I think of it, my pastor said that we weren't meant to eat meat. (Your agnostic, I believe, and so this doesn't mean much to you but anyways) In Genesis, God said that you can eat from any fruit in the trees, it wasn't until they sinned that the first animal (the lamb) was killed to clothe and feed them.


All herbivores have rear molars. Many have canines (like horses). But the fact is that you and your dad's teeth are abnormal.
My teeth are sexy.


Except. we don't have to eat meat. So if we don't have to eat it, why would you say we're omnivores?

Point taken, but I have to eat meat
 

Kelzie

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You don't have to. You want to.
 

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Kelzie said:
You don't have to. You want to.

Biologically, we're designed to be omnivores. You have to be very, VERY careful not to hurt yourself if you're not going to eat meat. The amount of fooling around with proper diets to make sure you don't permanently injure yourself by giving up meat should show that we're geared up to be meat-eaters from the ground up.

I would say that's more than want.

With the right amount of technology, I could use flight as my main locomotive ability. It wouldn't make me a bird, though.
 

Kelzie

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Zebulon said:
Biologically, we're designed to be omnivores. .

Oh yeah? Prove it. And just because we can eat meat, doesn't mean we were designed to.

Zebulon said:
You have to be very, VERY careful not to hurt yourself if you're not going to eat meat. The amount of fooling around with proper diets to make sure you don't permanently injure yourself by giving up meat should show that we're geared up to be meat-eaters from the ground up.

I eat a balanced diet. I hardly consider that being very, VERY careful. I consider it healthy. And I am healthier than any omnivore I know.

Zebulon said:
I would say that's more than want.

However, since going vegetarian/vegan increases your life expectancy by an average of SEVEN years, and almost every single physician group has endorsed a vegetarian/vegan diet, I would say you're wrong.


Zebulon said:
With the right amount of technology, I could use flight as my main locomotive ability. It wouldn't make me a bird, though.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here...you're talking about changing your species. I'm talking about a different diet, one that our species embraced before we invented tools. So what is your point?
 
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