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Veganism Is An Eating Diisorder

Paleocon said:
Well of course if you discount all the unhealthy vegans, then veganism is a healthy lifestyle. This is what's called the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. It's similar to the "no democracies have ever fought each other" claim.
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What a stupid argument when you consider that the average individual with the "Standard American Diet" is extremely unhealthy. The longest lived cultures on earth all largely eat a plant based diet.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
What a stupid argument when you consider that the average individual with the "Standard American Diet" is extremely unhealthy. The longest lived cultures on earth all largely eat a plant based diet.
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Comparing some other culture that is not actually vegan to the standard American diet is fallacious. A valid comparison would be between American vegans and other Americans.

And what do you know, vegans tend to have higher rates of eating disorders, malnutrition, etc.
 
Paleocon said:
Comparing some other culture that is not actually vegan to the standard American diet is fallacious. A valid comparison would be between American vegans and other Americans.

And what do you know, vegans tend to have higher rates of eating disorders, malnutrition, etc.
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They also have much lower obesity rates, lower cancer rates (particularly colon cancer), much lower rates of type 2 diabetes, and lower heart disease rates.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
They also have much lower obesity rates, lower cancer rates (particularly colon cancer), much lower rates of type 2 diabetes, and lower heart disease rates.
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Pointing out that vegans are less likely to be obese is like pointing out that people with high blood pressure are less likely to have fainting spells.
 
Paleocon said:
Pointing out that vegans are less likely to be obese is like pointing out that people with high blood pressure are less likely to have fainting spells.
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I am not sure what the motivation is for being so anti-vegan. Vegans are less likely to be obese because they tend to eat far less processed food.

The entire premise of the thread is absurd because it argues that veganism is an eating disorder. Some people choose to be vegan because they have an eating disorder thus its a mask for their underlining eating disorder. That does not mean that veganism is an eating disorder. Its like saying that some people choose the Atkins diet because they are masking an underlining eating disorder, but once again it does not mean that the high protein / low carbohydrate Atkins diet is an eating disorder.
 
Paleocon said:
Comparing some other culture that is not actually vegan to the standard American diet is fallacious. A valid comparison would be between American vegans and other Americans.

And what do you know, vegans tend to have higher rates of eating disorders, malnutrition, etc.
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Your position on this has already been proven false. Vegans do not have higher rates of eating disorders.
 
DA60 said:
I don't know about veganism.

But I have been a vegetarian (off and on - about 90% on) for decades. Plus I used to be a medium intensity bodybuilder (again, about 90% while I was vegetarian).

Providing you take vitamins to make up for a couple of nutrients/vitamins that are difficult to get in non-meat sources, a vegetarian diet gives you everything you need to be healthy...including plenty of protein if you watch it right.

And it is much better for your overall well being - especially compared to a red-meat heavy diet. And it is cheaper to boot.


Why am I a vegetarian? Primarily because I think it is wrong to eat something you are not prepared to kill and dress/prepare yourself. And there is NO WAY I would ever kill a cow unless my life literally depended on it. The same more or less goes for a pig. A little less for a chicken and a lot less for a fish.
But I still would not want to kill any of them...to varying degrees.
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My wife and I raise chicken for eggs and meat, quail for eggs and meat, and we garden some. Our little farm is all organic. I don't look forward to processing day but you have to kill it before you can grill it.
 
Bootlace said:
My wife and I raise chicken for eggs and meat, quail for eggs and meat, and we garden some. Our little farm is all organic. I don't look forward to processing day but you have to kill it before you can grill it.
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you raise it yourself and you look it in the eye. I respect that. the fat slobs who grab it off the rack all processed with no regard are the problem
 
PoS said:
Obsessing? You mean like having a pathological hatred for meat?
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Militant_Vegan_ said:
i don't take advice from people who have eaten their way into disease.
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Moderator's Warning:
I am tiring of the two of you messing up any thread on this topic. If you want to discuss things, civilly, be my guest. If you don't, you will have my wrath to deal with.
 
DA60 said:
I don't know about veganism.

But I have been a vegetarian (off and on - about 90% on) for decades. Plus I used to be a medium intensity bodybuilder (again, about 90% while I was vegetarian).

Providing you take vitamins to make up for a couple of nutrients/vitamins that are difficult to get in non-meat sources, a vegetarian diet gives you everything you need to be healthy...including plenty of protein if you watch it right.

And it is much better for your overall well being - especially compared to a red-meat heavy diet. And it is cheaper to boot.


Why am I a vegetarian? Primarily because I think it is wrong to eat something you are not prepared to kill and dress/prepare yourself. And there is NO WAY I would ever kill a cow unless my life literally depended on it. The same more or less goes for a pig. A little less for a chicken and a lot less for a fish.
But I still would not want to kill any of them...to varying degrees.
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Wow, I never expected a tender heart out of you, nor did I expect the bodybuilder or vegan thing. Just proves that we never really know who we are communicating with on the internet. I guess I thought you really were some sort of alien robot critter.
 
DA60 said:
I don't know about veganism.

But I have been a vegetarian (off and on - about 90% on) for decades. Plus I used to be a medium intensity bodybuilder (again, about 90% while I was vegetarian).

Providing you take vitamins to make up for a couple of nutrients/vitamins that are difficult to get in non-meat sources, a vegetarian diet gives you everything you need to be healthy...including plenty of protein if you watch it right.

And it is much better for your overall well being - especially compared to a red-meat heavy diet. And it is cheaper to boot.


Why am I a vegetarian? Primarily because I think it is wrong to eat something you are not prepared to kill and dress/prepare yourself. And there is NO WAY I would ever kill a cow unless my life literally depended on it. The same more or less goes for a pig. A little less for a chicken and a lot less for a fish.
But I still would not want to kill any of them...to varying degrees.
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great post
 
Vegetarianism is not always but is a great amount of the time the result of over politicizing and obsessing about food in a not healthy or pleasant way. Is it any shock that these people would display a history of eating disorders?

EXCUSE ME, NO!

Lets get some more science on this, and kindly spend a little extra time with those vegan nut jobs, tyvm. (NOTE TO MODS: this is a political statement of disgust towards all vegans for their vegansism, not an insult towards any individual, which should be clear but just in case this is not (I like having my current score))

For sure I dont want to get in the way of the freedom of any vegan to have his pretty yuk dinner plate, but I dont have to desire to associate with them either. and dont have to be chummy with them either. I am pretty sure it says this in the Constitution.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Vegetarianism is not always but is a great amount of the time the result of over politicizing and obsessing about food in a not healthy or pleasant way. Is it any shock that these people would display a history of eating disorders?

EXCUSE ME, NO!

Lets get some more science on this, and kindly spend a little extra time with those vegan nut jobs, tyvm. (NOTE TO MODS: this is a political statement of disgust towards all vegans for their vegansism, not an insult towards any individual, which should be clear but just in case this is not (I like having my current score))

For sure I dont want to get in the way of the freedom of any vegan to have his pretty yuk dinner plate, but I dont have to desire to associate with them either. and dont have to be chummy with them either. I am pretty sure it says this in the Constitution.
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you're also the guy who had a heart attack at 50 and doesnt care about his health though, right?
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
you're also the guy who had a heart attack at 50 and doesnt care about his health though, right?
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No, I never had a heart attack, and I do care about my health. However for the most part eating and drinking what I want is non negotiable till/unless I get an iron clad promise of another life. If not I am going to use this one to the max, I am going to use up every bit of this body pursuing quality of life.
 
IMO, there are many good reasons for vegetarianism, perhaps even veganism ... the mass production of meat in an industrialized fashion, is often unhealthy and, when you have a closer look at it, absolutely unappetizing. I mean, just look at these animals, pumped full of antibiotics in their own feces, fed with all kinds of food that isn't their natural diet.

So you really don't need to be an animal lover to find many good reasons for vegetarianism/veganism. Though I don't think animal protection is anyhow a bad motivation either; personally, I think eating meat is very natural. As in hunting and fishing. But that doesn't mean you have to make animals suffer unnecessarily, or overextend their natural populations. (If everybody had to hunt or fish his own food, which would be the natural way our ancestors did, many more people would likely eat much less meat).

I also think there are health reasons for moderate meat consumption. In our evolutionary past, most people didn't eat meat every day. It was a food that was more difficult to obtain than grains or fruits -- or milk and eggs for that matter, so people ate less of it. I assume this has left traces in our genetic setup, so the modern habit of excessive meat consumption might well be unhealthy for our bodies.

Certainly our ancestors used to eat much less animal fat and sugar than many of us do today.

I'd say, though, that strict veganism isn't natural either. It also requires considerable care, because you really have to take care you get enough proteine and B-vitamins. When done improperly, veganism can well be damaging.

Personally, I guess I could avoid meat if necessary... but no way I'd voluntarily give up milk and cheese. Forget it. ;)
 
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German guy said:
IMO, there are many good reasons for vegetarianism, perhaps even veganism ... the mass production of meat in an industrialized fashion, is often unhealthy and, when you have a closer look at it, absolutely unappetizing. I mean, just look at these animals, pumped full of antibiotics in their own feces, fed with all kinds of food that isn't their natural diet.

So you really don't need to be an animal lover to find many good reasons for vegetarianism/veganism. Though I don't think animal protection is anyhow a bad motivation either; personally, I think eating meat is very natural. As in hunting and fishing. But that doesn't mean you have to make animals suffer unnecessarily, or overextend their natural populations. (If everybody had to hunt or fish his own food, which would be the natural way our ancestors did, many more people would likely eat much less meat).

I also think there are health reasons for moderate meat consumption. In our evolutionary past, most people didn't eat meat every day. It was a food that was more difficult to obtain than grains or fruits -- or milk and eggs for that matter, so people ate less of it. I assume this has left traces in our genetic setup, so the modern habit of excessive meat consumption might well be unhealthy for our bodies.

Certainly our ancestors used to eat much less animal fat and sugar than many of us do today.

I'd say, though, that strict veganism isn't natural either. It also requires considerable care, because you really have to take care you get enough proteine and B-vitamins. When done improperly, veganism can well be damaging.

Personally, I guess I could avoid meat if necessary... but no way I'd voluntarily give up milk and cheese. Forget it. ;)
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Your theory has several major flaws. Here is one:

Use of Animal Fat as a Symbol of Health in Traditional societies Suggests Humans may be Well Adapted to its Consumption
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.
.
: Recommendations to limit the dietary consumption of saturated fat have been
adopted by public health organizations in most countries. However, recent scientific studies and reviews have
questioned the alleged negative health claims regarding saturated fat.
This research aims to provide a historical, evolutionary point of view to the debate through a short review of
evidence for animal fat consumption by Paleolithic and recent traditional societies, and the discernment of
how recent traditional societies perceived animal fat in terms of health and other lifestyle aspects
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http://jevohealth.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1022&context=journal
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
that's a terrible argument. people who eat tons of animal fat don't live long healthy lives
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Tell that to the Inuit.

Well, maybe not, science is not sure yet, but there is reason to think that fat is no where near as bad for us as has been advertised.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Tell that to the Inuit.

Well, maybe not, science is not sure yet, but there is reason to think that fat is no where near as bad for us as has been advertised.
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horrible argument

Extreme Nutrition: The Diet of Eskimos*
Unfortunately, misinformation surrounding the all-meat diet of the Eskimo has promoted dangerous eating habits to the modern-day general public.
. Early reports describe these people as looking beautiful and athletic when they were young, but then they aged quickly, and "men and women who appeared to be 60 or over were rare."




There Is No Eskimo Paradox

The human being is designed to thrive on a diet of starches, vegetables and fruits. The Eskimo experience serves as a testament to the miraculous strengths and adaptability of our bodies. We can survive on raw and cooked meat, but we thrive on starches, vegetables and fruits. These hardy people survived living at the edge of the nutritional envelope, but not in good health. Here are some of the health costs they paid:
Eskimos Suffer from Atherosclerosis
Claims that Eskimos were free of heart (artery) disease are untrue. A thorough review of the evidence concludes that "Eskimos have a similar prevalence of CAD (coronary artery disease) as non-Eskimo populations, they have excessive mortality due to cerebrovascular strokes, their overall mortality is twice as high as that of non-Eskimo populations, and their life expectancy is approximately 10 years shorter than the Danish population."

Mummified remains of Eskimos dating back 2,000 years have shown extensive hardening of the arteries throughout their brains, hearts and limbs; as a direct consequence of following a carnivorous diet of birds, caribou, seals, walrus, polar bears, whales, and fish. The June 1987 issue of National Geographic magazine carried an article about two Eskimo women, one in her twenties and the other in her forties, frozen for five centuries in a tomb of ice. When discovered and medically examined they both showed signs of severe osteoporosis and also suffered extensive atherosclerosis, "probably the result of a heavy diet of whale and seal blubber."
Eskimos Suffer from Severe Bone Loss
Their low-calcium diet and lack of sunshine (vitamin D) are only minor factors contributing to the extensive osteoporosis found in recent and ancient Eskimos. Alaskan Eskimos older than age 40 have been found to have a 10% to 15% greater deficit in bone mineral density compared to Caucasians in the US. This research published in 1974 on 107 elderly people concluded, "Aging bone loss, which occurs in many populations, has an earlier onset and greater intensity in the Eskimos. Nutritional factors of high protein, high nitrogen, high phosphorus, and low calcium intakes maybe implicated."


https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl/apr/eskimos.htm
 
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