Vatican stops short of apology as muslem leaders decry comments.

[ProudAmerican]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214127,00.html

so tell me, where is all that fear of Christians rising up when someone speaks out publicly against them?

after all, they are just as dangerous as radical muslems.

 

[Binary_Digit]

These "muslim leaders" need to get off their Quran-thumping asses and denounce the radicals in their ranks who make what the pope said justified. I hope the Vatican continues to stop short of an apology.

 

[PrimBabUB]

I am sick of the hypocrite Islamic 'one way street'. When Muslims step forward and apologize for all the Al Qaeda tapes being broadcast calling for the death of non-Muslims, then I'll listen.

 

[dsanthony]

These "muslim leaders" need to get off their Quran-thumping asses and denounce the radicals in their ranks who make what the pope said justified. I hope the Vatican continues to stop short of an apology.

Right said, Fred.

 

[erasamus snoggle]

The Pope is Right

The latest international outrage expressed by practitioners of the "religion of peace" is over comments made by Pope Benedict XVI. It seems a week doesn't go by without the Islamic world being offended by something someone says, writes or draws.


A Danish newspaper publishes some cartoons depicting Mohammed, and Muslims respond violently. Some left-wing Newsweek reporter erroneously writes about a Koran being flushed down a toilet at Gitmo and there are riots and deaths as a result. President George W. Bush calls terrorists and militants Islamic Fascists and not only are the Muslims outraged, but the liberals go ballistic in their response, which was similar to their response when President Ronald Reagan called the Soviet Union "the Evil Empire."

(...)

 

[python416]

I am sick of the hypocrite Islamic 'one way street'. When Muslims step forward and apologize for all the Al Qaeda tapes being broadcast calling for the death of non-Muslims, then I'll listen.

Are you trying to say that no Muslims have condemned the violence from extremists? (cause if you look closely - that just isn't true)

 

[python416]

The Pope is Right

The latest international outrage expressed by practitioners of the "religion of peace" is over comments made by Pope Benedict XVI. It seems a week doesn't go by without the Islamic world being offended by something someone says, writes or draws.

I am Catholic, and I was outraged.

A Danish newspaper publishes some cartoons depicting Mohammed, and Muslims respond violently. Some left-wing Newsweek reporter erroneously writes about a Koran being flushed down a toilet at Gitmo and there are riots and deaths as a result. President George W. Bush calls terrorists and militants Islamic Fascists and not only are the Muslims outraged, but the liberals go ballistic in their response, which was similar to their response when President Ronald Reagan called the Soviet Union "the Evil Empire."

All Muslims got violent from the cartoons?

The Pope shouldn't be continuing the polarization of the world set of from Bush doctrine - a doctrine which isn't helping anyone. The waste of the post-911 unity is truly one of the worst missed oppratunities of all time. These types of comments just dig a deeper hole.

 

[python416]

It is good that the Pope finally back peddled his mistaken words. Just saw it live on CNN.

 

[akyron]

He called a spade a spade and they burned him in effigy for it.


Friday, Muslim protesters shouted slogans against the pontiff at a rally in Jammu, India. (Watch other Muslims burn the pope in effigy -- 1:41)


Peaceful eh?


Pope shocked at Muslim reaction


Maybe he should not mix with what he knows to be true as a professor of theology and being the pope. Just say mass and be quiet otherwise.


West Bank Christians targeted in fire-bombings

Very peaceful indeed.

 

[Binary_Digit]

The waste of the post-911 unity is truly one of the worst missed oppratunities of all time.

I pretty much agree with that.

The Pope shouldn't be continuing the polarization of the world set of from Bush doctrine - a doctrine which isn't helping anyone. ... These types of comments just dig a deeper hole.

That's a good point about polarization, but you can't help to solve a problem unless you address it. Maybe you think he shouldn't help, and that's ok, but I think it's good that he is trying to help.

Maybe the pope went too far by suggesting that Islam as a whole is inherently violent, but that conclusion is becoming less and less difficult to arrive at considering some of the people who claim to represent it, and considering that the moderate leaders appear to sit idly by until someone points it out, after which they denounce the accuser instead of their fellow "Muslims" who are responsible for the accusation.

 

[PrimBabUB]

Are you trying to say that no Muslims have condemned the violence from extremists? (cause if you look closely - that just isn't true)

There's the problem, isn't it? Hell, look closely? , you have to use a magnifying glass to find them.

 

[python416]

There's the problem, isn't it? Hell, look closely? , you have to use a magnifying glass to find them.

So the Muslims are responible for the fact that Western media doesn't find it news worthy that Islam proper doesn't approve of extremists? Please. It is the responsibilty of individuals to come to their own conclusion. If they want to take the prepacked soundbites mixed in with idealogy convayed in the media, that is their business - but they are missing the whole truth. A truth that includes the fact that the vast majority of Islam views Jihad as the inner battle with ones self, to make them a better person - and Al Qaeda's definition of Jihad as incorrect.

 

[Binary_Digit]

It is the responsibilty of individuals to come to their own conclusion.

That goes both ways. Non-violent Muslims know their religion is not inherently violent, so they should conclude that what the pope said doesn't apply to them.

 

[python416]

I pretty much agree with that.


That's a good point about polarization, but you can't help to solve a problem unless you address it. Maybe you think he shouldn't help, and that's ok, but I think it's good that he is trying to help.

I agree with his stated goals, I just can't see how his plan is ever going to reach its goal. I believe you can't kill your way to peace (other than genocide).

Maybe the pope went too far by suggesting that Islam as a whole is inherently violent, but that conclusion is becoming less and less difficult to arrive at considering some of the people who claim to represent it, and considering that the moderate leaders appear to sit idly by until someone points it out, after which they denounce the accuser instead of their fellow "Muslims" who are responsible for the accusation.

Again, I agree there has to be greater condemnation with the Arab states - but Bush/Israeli policy has created an environment (with help from others like Al Qaeda) where it is policital suicide to support the West inside the Arab world. Soi how is Bush policy helping us closer to peace? How can you acheive peace without working to de-polarize the environment first?

 

[Binary_Digit]

Soi how is Bush policy helping us closer to peace?

Since March 2003, it's not.

How can you acheive peace without working to de-polarize the environment first?

I think denounce the polarizers, i.e. radicals, while at the same time not being a polarizer yourself (which the pope failed to do when he labeled the entire religion rather than just the radicals).

 

[python416]

That goes both ways. Non-violent Muslims know their religion is not inherently violent, so they should conclude that what the pope said doesn't apply to them.

If you want to hold the Pope's comments to the same standards as we hold the media or politcians - then fine. But it demotes the Pope from a spiritual leader to just another in the group of talking heads. That is sad, speaking as a Catholic.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Originally Posted by python416
The Pope shouldn't be continuing the polarization of the world set of from Bush doctrine - a doctrine which isn't helping anyone. ... These types of comments just dig a deeper hole

ahhh. so its the Pope and Bush that are being divisive, and muslems are doing their best to unite the planet.

it all makes sense now.

the only problem is, if you dont agree with the muslems way of uniting everyone, your head gets sawn off.

:roll:

 

[python416]

ahhh. so its the Pope and Bush that are being divisive, and muslems are doing their best to unite the planet.

it all makes sense now.

the only problem is, if you dont agree with the muslems way of uniting everyone, your head gets sawn off.

:roll:

The Pope and Bush are leaders, who I hope you hold them to a higher standard than Al Qaeda. If Farakhan was sawing off heads, then you might have a point - but you don't.

 

[ProudAmerican]

The Pope and Bush are leaders, who I hope you hold them to a higher standard than Al Qaeda. If Farakhan was sawing off heads, then you might have a point - but you don't.

LMAO.

so since farakhan isnt sawing off heads, that means muslems arent?

try to do better here please.

 

[python416]

LMAO.

so since farakhan isnt sawing off heads, that means muslems arent?

try to do better here please.

LMAO?

Try to do better here?

I don't need to waste my time with someone who can't show a little respect for someone they are engagued in debate with; it doesn't do anything for me. Please don't flatter yourself thinking that I am running - but then again think what you want cause I don't care.

We are done - have a nice day Sir.

 

[ProudAmerican]

LMAO?

Try to do better here?

I don't need to waste my time with someone who can't show a little respect for someone they are engagued in debate with. Please don't flatter yourself thinking that I am running - but then again think what you want. I don't care.

We are done - have a nice day sir.

in that case, we were done before you ever made the first post.

my point stands.

good day to you.

 

[uNdeRdOg]

I always love the argument that because there might be one out of millions of radical muslims that isn't ready to go all jihadi no one can hold any of these muslims as a group responsible. It seems its always just the radical few that caused over 5800 terror attacks around the world since 9/11. In my opinion, thats just a few too many to look the other way. Imagine the outcry and the counter response if christians perpetrated all these attacks.

The muslims hold the world in their hand because they are media savvy (staging videos) and they keep the so called palestinians in perpetual victimization mode to get sympathy from the world.

The Pope only said whats on most peoples minds and the "tolerant" religion of peace gave an all too predictable response.

 

[PrimBabUB]

I always love the argument that because there might be one out of millions of radical muslims that isn't ready to go all jihadi no one can hold any of these muslims as a group responsible. It seems its always just the radical few that caused over 5800 terror attacks around the world since 9/11. In my opinion, thats just a few too many to look the other way. Imagine the outcry and the counter response if christians perpetrated all these attacks.

The muslims hold the world in their hand because they are media savvy (staging videos) and they keep the so called palestinians in perpetual victimization mode to get sympathy from the world.

The Pope only said whats on most peoples minds and the "tolerant" religion of peace gave an all too predictable response.

Excellent post. I completely agree.

 

[Volker]

One have only to look at who applauses the pope now to see that he made a big mistake by delivering the speech the way he did.

 

[akyron]

One have only to look at who applauses the pope now to see that he made a big mistake by delivering the speech the way he did.

And pay attention to who lights him on fire as well.


Pope's 'medieval' remarks

Note who made a 'remark' and who is lighting things on fire.

Complaining or protesting is one thing. Burning a holy man in effigy and killing is another.

Its revenge of the cartoons part M+


Pope remarks: Muslims livid, burn effigy

They focus on a quote that was said by someone else and dont even listen to the message toning down the violence.


Its like telling someone "Hey, people are perceiving you as violent. We can work this out" The response is a punch in the face or in this case lighting him on fire.