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VAtican REnews Ban on Gays

saffron

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The Vatican has published long-awaited guidelines which reaffirm that active homosexuals and "supporters of gay culture" may not become priests.
But it treats homosexuality as a "tendency", not an orientation, and says those who have overcome it can begin training to take holy orders.

At least three years must pass between "overcoming [a] transitory problem" and ordination as a deacon, the rules say.

All Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy, regardless of orientation.

The guidelines make no reference to current priests, but only to men about to join a seminary.

They are the outcome of a review ordered by the late Pope John Paul II following highly damaging abuse scandals in the US in which several men accused priests of having abused them as teenagers.

No link has been established between homosexuality and the abuse of children.

'Duty to dissuade'

The Vatican document describes homosexual acts as "grave sins" that cannot be justified under any circumstances.

"If a candidate practises homosexuality, or presents deep-seated homosexual tendencies, his spiritual director as well as his confessor have the duty to dissuade him in conscience from proceeding towards ordination," it says.

"Such persons in fact find themselves in a situation that presents a grave obstacle to a correct relationship with men and women."

But the paper also stresses the Church's deep respect for homosexuals, who, it says, should by no means be discriminated against.

Some Catholic theologians feel the document is not sufficiently clear, the BBC's Peter Gould says.

That it refers to "tendencies" rather than orientation "has left many people scratching their heads," Jesuit scholar Father Thomas Reese told him.

The 18-paragraph document was published with little fanfare on Tuesday morning. The Vatican is not offering further explanation.

Truth

The chairman of a Roman Catholic evangelical group in Nigeria, Godwin Ukachi, welcomed the publication as overdue.

"I think it is right for the Church to take a stand on certain issues, especially the issue of homosexuals. Here in Africa and Nigeria... we are not at home with such attitudes," he told the BBC's World Today programme.

"Something had to be done. I think they think that the Church is taking a step in the right direction."

Critics have long objected that gay seminarians might feel they have no choice but to lie about their sexual orientation.

The guidelines specifically address this issue, urging candidates for the priesthood to tell the truth.

"It would be gravely dishonest for a candidate to hide his own homosexuality," the document says.

Observers say the new rules might lead to a dramatic drop in the number of priests, especially in the West.

The guidelines, "Instruction Concerning The Criteria of Vocational Discernment Regarding Persons With Homosexual Tendencies In View Of Their Admission To Seminaries And Holy Orders", were drafted by the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education and approved by Pope Benedict on 31 August.

Canon law experts note that they were not issued in forma specifica, meaning the Pope has not officially invested it with his personal authority, according to the National Catholic Reporter.

That might mean there is room for further interpretation or revision.

Homosexuals had already been barred from priesthood in a 1961 document.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4480588.stm
 

George_Washington

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saffron said:
No link has been established between homosexuality and the abuse of children.

Well maybe not, but it is possible for someone to be both homosexual and a pedophile. We shouldn't just bury our heads in the sand when analyzing human sexuality just for fear of offending the gay community. It seems like nowadays if anyone mutters anything about the gay community, it's treated like a felony. They protested Eminem and they seem to lash out against anyone that doesn't accept their lifestyle. I find it rather ironic that the gay community seems to love freedom of speech and expression, except for when it's something they don't like to hear.
 

Stace

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George_Washington said:
Well maybe not, but it is possible for someone to be both homosexual and a pedophile. We shouldn't just bury our heads in the sand when analyzing human sexuality just for fear of offending the gay community. It seems like nowadays if anyone mutters anything about the gay community, it's treated like a felony. They protested Eminem and they seem to lash out against anyone that doesn't accept their lifestyle. I find it rather ironic that the gay community seems to love freedom of speech and expression, except for when it's something they don't like to hear.
Personally, I don't see how the Church can be so against homosexuality.....look at all of the priests that have molested young boys. Being gay does not automatically make you a pedophile, just like being straight doesn't automatically mean you CAN'T be a pedophile.

Besides...there's homosexuality in the Bible....not to mention there are at least two Popes that are strongly suspected of having been gay...or at least bisexual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_popes

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0204/23/wbr.00.html
 

Kelzie

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I really don't understand how this is all that big of a deal.

Heterosexual men are twice as likely to sexually abuse children as homosexual men are. There is solid evidence that over 92% of child abuse cases, including same gender sexual abuse, are perpetrated by heterosexuals
http://www.mcgill.ca/studenthealth/information/queerhealth/myths/

Obviously, gays are not more likely to be pedophiles. Pedophiles usually don't care about the gender of their victim anyway. It's their "sexless-ness" that appeals to them. According to my Psych 101 class anyway. :lol:
 

George_Washington

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Stace said:
Besides...there's homosexuality in the Bible....not to mention there are at least two Popes that are strongly suspected of having been gay...or at least bisexual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_popes

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0204/23/wbr.00.html

Um, Stace. Where in the Bible are there blatant acts of homosexuality? Can you point out specific chapters, verses?

Even if there were two Popes that had a tendency towards homosexuality, so what? It doesn't mean anything. I don't really care if people are gay, personally. It's just the Vatican believes they should try to over come it.
 

Stace

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George_Washington said:
Um, Stace. Where in the Bible are there blatant acts of homosexuality? Can you point out specific chapters, verses?

Even if there were two Popes that had a tendency towards homosexuality, so what? It doesn't mean anything. I don't really care if people are gay, personally. It's just the Vatican believes they should try to over come it.
Genesis 19:4-5 talks of the men of Sodom coming to Lot's home and telling Lot to send out the visitors so that they may have sex with them. Yeah, seems at least bisexual to me.

Romans 1:26-27 speaks of men filled with lust for each other, and committing "indecent acts" with each other, as well as women.

1 Samuel 18:1-4, 2 Samuel 1:26, and Ruth 1:16-17 can be interpreted as speaking of homosexual relationships.


I didn't say there were "blatant" acts of homosexuality. I just said they were there.

Look up Popes Julius III, Benedict IX, and John XI. Especially Julius III....yeah, I don't really think he "overcame" anything.
 

George_Washington

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Stace said:
Genesis 19:4-5 talks of the men of Sodom coming to Lot's home and telling Lot to send out the visitors so that they may have sex with them. Yeah, seems at least bisexual to me.

Romans 1:26-27 speaks of men filled with lust for each other, and committing "indecent acts" with each other, as well as women.

1 Samuel 18:1-4, 2 Samuel 1:26, and Ruth 1:16-17 can be interpreted as speaking of homosexual relationships.
Well yeah, there are mentions of it but it's not endorsed.



Look up Popes Julius III, Benedict IX, and John XI. Especially Julius III....yeah, I don't really think he "overcame" anything.
Bah. There have been all kinds of Rumors throughout the years about Popes and other members of the Catholic Church. We're so large and we've been around for so long, it's bound to happen.

And Stace, when you said, "look at all the Priests that have molested boys," well, there are pedophiles in every walk of life. We have about 1 billion members worldwide. We can't help it if once in a while a bad apple gets through. We make mistakes just like everyone else.
 
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Stace

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George_Washington said:
Well yeah, there are mentions of it but it's not endorsed.
Hey, I never said the Bible endorsed homosexuality...just said it was in there is all.


Bah. There have been all kinds of Rumors throughout the years about Popes and other members of the Catholic Church. We're so large and we've been around for so long, it's bound to happen.
Well, Julius III was a little more than a rumor, but.....eh. I'm not Catholic so I don't really care all that much, other than I don't think they should discriminate like this.

And Stace, when you said, "look at all the Priests that have molested boys," well, there are pedophiles in every walk of life. We have about 1 billion members worldwide. We can't help it if once in a while a bad apple gets through. We make mistakes just like everyone else.
Oh, I know there are pedophiles from all walks....I'm not arguing that at all. I was just trying to make a point, in that homosexuals aren't the only pedophiles out there, and are actually less likely to be pedophiles, as Kelzie pointed out.
 

George_Washington

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Stace said:
Oh, I know there are pedophiles from all walks....I'm not arguing that at all. I was just trying to make a point, in that homosexuals aren't the only pedophiles out there, and are actually less likely to be pedophiles, as Kelzie pointed out.
I wouldn't say they are less likely than heterosexuals. I've never heard of any hard studies that prove this.

My original point was that it is possible to be both gay and a pedophile, just like it's possible to be both straight and a pedophile.
 

vergiss

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Paedophiles aren't really "gay or straight", anyway. Adults of either gender don't do anything for them - they're only sexually attracted to children.
 

shuamort

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Talk about a case of "do as I say, not as I do":
Vatican said:
But the paper also stresses the Church's deep respect for homosexuals, who, it says, should by no means be discriminated against.
:roll:
 
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