VA Gov Gives 200,000 Felons Voting Rights... 'Move to boost Clinton'...

[Chomsky]

At this point, I have not read anything to suggest the Governor does not have to the power of his office to make the unilateral decision that he made. I guess time will tell if there are any remedies, or challenges to his commutation of sentence for 200,000 felons.

Well, it's not a commutation of sentence.

But your point is noted.

 

[calamity]

So a small study of 26 offenders, who we don't even know whether or not they were EXTREME cases or classified as "predators", is enough to say that ALL sex offenders should be troubled by legal issues for life?

Do you realize that pissing in public can make one a "sex offender" ????

This sex offender **** has gotten out of control... and the ignorant public who seems to think someone on the sex offender registry = "predator".

At one point a few years back, while a police officer I searched the sex offender registry and not ONE SINGLE person registered in all of NC met the requirements for "Predator" status.

I'd agree that we should classify sex offenders in a more prudent manner. When I speak of sex offenders, I'm speaking of violent offenders like rapists and child molesters, especially anyone over age 20 offending against children under 15.

 

[Caine]

I'd agree that we should classify sex offenders in a more prudent manner. When I speak of sex offenders, I'm speaking of violent offenders like rapists and child molesters, especially anyone over age 20 offending against children under 15.

In this day and age, we should also take into account the "victim's" willing participation in the act, and whether it was apparent to the offender of the victim's age at the time of the act.

 

[ocean515]

Well, it's not a commutation of sentence.

But your point is noted.

Well, I beg to differ. If the law at the time of their crime included forfeiture of voting rights, stripping away that provision is most certainly commutation of their sentence. Changing the law so that future convicted felons would not lose their voting rights once completing the full provisions of their sentence would have been different.

 

[Chomsky]

Well, I beg to differ. If the law at the time of their crime included forfeiture of voting rights, stripping away that provision is most certainly commutation of their sentence. Changing the law so that future convicted felons would not lose their voting rights once completing the full provisions of their sentence would have been different.

I don't believe so.

Not trying to quibble technicalities, but:

Forfeiture is not part of sentencing; it is a separate state policy concerning an unrelated issue. For example, in my state felons never lost their right to own a gun until well into the late 80's; but when they did even those sentenced before the date the state changed their policy became subject to the new policy.

I believe your conflating sentencing with a separate administrative issue.

 

[Paperview]

Insane? No way?
Wut?
These folks have already demonstrated defective thinking by willingly breaking the law. That should be reason enough to revoke the privileged until after they have been discharged from their sentence.

Aren't you an Ex-convict?

 

[Paperview]

There is some dark humor in the VA Dem Governor allowing the former VA Republican Governor to get his right to vote back after his felony conviction is served.

 

[Chomsky]

There is some dark humor in the VA Dem Governor allowing the former VA Republican Governor to get his right to vote back after his felony conviction is served.

I missed that connection until you brought it up, but you are absolutely right!

So the Republicans were behind it all! :mrgreen:

 

[Captain Adverse]

Misleading....

The problem with using recidivism rates to determine the rate of reoffending is readily apparent when considering the following example. If 100% of released molesters reoffended, but the rate of reporting is only 12%, and the conviction rate is half of this, than the recidivism rate would be reported as only 6%!

Prentky et al. (1997) examined recidivism rates on 115 child molesters and concluded that: (1) child molesters remain at risk to reoffend long after their discharge, in some cases 15-20 years after discharge; (2) there is a marked underestimation of recidivism rates. Recidivism and Child Molesters

Even MORE misleading. Conflating child molesters with all sex offenders.

The data Excon was referring to was "sex offenders," not "child molesters" which is a sub-classification of said group. The data he refers to (I think it is from FBI crime statistics) specifically excludes true pedophiles (people who molest children under the age of 13) who have one of the highest rates of criminal recidivism. But after excluding pedophiles, sex offenders do have the second lowest rate of recidivism of all criminal offenders.

Now I do agree that pedophilia is a mental disorder, and as such these types of offenders should be diverted to criminal psychiatric facilities rather than serve any time in prison. That they should have indefinite sentences subject to review by a psychiatric panel who must vote unanimously to release them back into society, and even then under certain restrictions and constant evaluation.

Other than those? Sex offender registration should be eliminated except in the case of serial rapists who should register for a term of years.

 

[Southern Dad]

This was a pretty blatant attempt to help Clinton. Now, I'm not opposed to felons being allowed to vote after they have served their sentences. However, changing the rules prior to an election? If this was indeed just about changing the rules, the change could have happened as of 01/01/2017. It's nothing new. Democrats support lawbreakers. They side with criminals over the state nearly all the time. They simply hope the felons will return the favor. What is next? Early parole? Two states actually allow convicted felons to vote WHILE serving time in prison.

 

[MickeyW]

In the State of Virginia, part of the debt to society resulting from their choice to commit the crimes they were convicted of was to forfeit their right to vote. It's rather lame to attempt to dismiss this fact.

What this action has done, is forgive part of the debt to society these convicted felons owe to society.

Indisputable fact.

Pretty clear to me.

IMO, unless the felon committed a gun crime, they should be allowed to own a gun again once their jail/parole term is complete.

OTOH, if they commit a sex crime, they should never be released from jail-parole-supervision.

But you just said, they should be able to use their gun.

 

[calamity]

Pretty clear to me.



But you just said, they should be able to use their gun.

Felons yes. Felons convicted of gun crimes no.

 

[Excon]

Yup, as soon as they leave jail and start rehabilitation outside of the prison walls, there is no need to keep them from voting.

Hilarious.
It is not insane. Again defective thinking was already demonstrated by the individual when they committed their crime.

And defective thinking? That is an oversimplification for why crimes happen. And even that should not rob them from their voting rights.

No it is not an oversimplification, and unless we are dealing with an exception to the rule type of crime, the "why" does not matter to the fact that the person engaged in defective thinking and purposely committed a crime.

There is no correlation between voting and having committed a crime.

****ing more hilarity.
No one is speaking of a correlation.
If you are thinking that it is ok to break the law for what ever selfish purpose you have, you are engaged in defective thinking.

​

Aren't you an Ex-convict?

Can you find a post where I say I am?
Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Excon]

IMO, unless the felon committed a gun crime, they should be allowed to own a gun again once their jail/parole term is complete.

OTOH, if they commit a sex crime, they should never be released from jail-parole-supervision.

Why?
If they paid their debt, it is paid. Not to mention that as a group they have the second to lowest recidivism rate.

Misleading....

No it isn't misleading, as a group they have the second to lowest recidivism rate.


(Keep in mind the difference between rearrest and conviction.)

5 PERCENT OF SEX OFFENDERS REARRESTED FOR ANOTHER SEX CRIME WITHIN 3 YEARS OF PRISON RELEASE

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Within 3 years following their 1994 state prison release, 5.3 percent of sex offenders (men who had committed rape or sexual assault) were [highlight]rearrested[/highlight] for another sex crime, the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) announced today. If all crimes are included, 43 percent of sex offenders were rearrested for various offenses.

Sex offenders were less likely than non-sex offenders to be rearrested for any offense—43 percent of sex offenders versus 68 percent of non-sex offenders. But sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison—5.3 percent of sex offenders versus 1.3 percent of non-sex offenders.

Sex offenders with the highest rate of rearrest for another sex offense were those who had a history of prior arrests for various crimes. While 3.3 percent of sex offenders with one prior arrest were arrested for another sex crime after their release, that percentage more than doubled (7.4 percent) for those with 16 or more prior arrests for different types of crimes. Of the released sex offenders who allegedly committed another sex crime, 40 percent perpetrated the new offense within a year or less from their prison discharge.

Of the almost 9,700 sex offenders released in 1994, nearly 4,300 were identified as child molesters. An estimated 3.3 percent of the 4,300 released child molesters were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years. Most of the children they were alleged to have molested after leaving prison were age 13 or younger.

Other BJS surveys have shown that 70 percent of all men in prison for a sex crime were men whose victim was a child. In almost half of the child-victim cases, the child was the prisoner's own son or daughter or other relative.

[...]

Of the released sex offenders, 3.5 percent were [highlight]reconvicted[/highlight] for a sex crime within the 3-year follow-up period, 24 percent were reconvicted for any new offense and 38.6 percent were returned to prison, either because they received another prison sentence or because of a parole violation.

Of the 9,700 sex offenders, 67 percent were white males and 32 percent were black males. The percentage rearrested for another sex crime after their release was 5.3 percent of white males and 5.6 percent of black males.

[...]​

5 PERCENT OF SEX OFFENDERS REARRESTED FOR ANOTHER SEX CRIME WITHIN 3 YEARS OF PRISON RELEASE​

5.3% (In-general category) were rearrested and only 3.5% were convicted.
While only 3.3% of child molesters (specific category) were rearrested, yet no percentage of actual conviction is mentioned. I wonder why that is? Would it also follow a similar pattern of being around 1/3 less?

Like I said; As a group they have the second to lowest recidivism rate.

 

[Southern Dad]

No it isn't misleading, as a group they have the second to lowest recidivism rate.

Could that be because of the long terms of supervised parole/probations that usually follow the incarceration for sexual offenders? The sexual offender registry and things like that?

 

[Caine]

Could that be because of the long terms of supervised parole/probations that usually follow the incarceration for sexual offenders? The sexual offender registry and things like that?

You think being on a registry is going to prevent someone from going out and re-offending if that is what they desire to do?

Please tell me how registering your name keeps this desire from popping up.

 

[Southern Dad]

You think being on a registry is going to prevent someone from going out and re-offending if that is what they desire to do?

Please tell me how registering your name keeps this desire from popping up.

Did I say that it keeps the desire from popping up? Well did I? Of course not, that's just you trolling in your post. The registry lets others know. It warns people. It causes them to have less access to children. In addition, the part of the post that you didn't even mention, most of these offenders have parole and/or probation after getting out of prison. Supervision with rules.

Know what cuts down their desire to go after kids? The fear of the repercussions. Whether that is the parents or the law.

 

[Caine]

Did I say that it keeps the desire from popping up? Well did I? Of course not, that's just you trolling in your post. The registry lets others know. It warns people. It causes them to have less access to children. In addition, the part of the post that you didn't even mention, most of these offenders have parole and/or probation after getting out of prison. Supervision with rules.

Know what cuts down their desire to go after kids? The fear of the repercussions. Whether that is the parents or the law.

LOL... You act like anyone on the sex offender registry is a child molester.

I find it funny you don't realize what a failure the sex offender registry is.

 

[jimbo]

I agree, I just remember asking former NAACP legal counsel and stanford professor Pam Karlan (who was spearheading an attempt to get black felons their voting rights back to help the Democrats) if she believed the same thing about second amendment rights and she did not. So in her case it was purely to help the party

MCauliffe is a piece of crap. Elected because the other piece of crap was worse. He has been DNC chairman, and co chaired both Bill's and Hillary's campaigns. He also rescinded the carry reciprocity agreements of all but one of the other states in a gun control administrative move. (He lost that one).

I don't disagree with having rights restored after doing your time, but this is being done for political reasons and without input from the representatives or voters.

Va is a centrist state. About as many RW as LW. If even 10% of the felons vote, it could change the results.

 

[Southern Dad]

LOL... You act like anyone on the sex offender registry is a child molester.

I find it funny you don't realize what a failure the sex offender registry is.

Here is what is funny. No where did I ever say that anyone on the sexual offender registry is a child molester. Obviously, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I know exactly what the sexual offender registry is. I also know how to read, how about you? Quote anywhere that I said anyone on the sexual registry is a child molester. You can't because you lied or just didn't understand what you read. Public school? GED?

 

[Caine]

Here is what is funny. No where did I ever say that anyone on the sexual offender registry is a child molester. Obviously, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I know exactly what the sexual offender registry is. I also know how to read, how about you? Quote anywhere that I said anyone on the sexual registry is a child molester. You can't because you lied or just didn't understand what you read. Public school? GED?

Did I say that it keeps the desire from popping up? Well did I? Of course not, that's just you trolling in your post. The registry lets others know. It warns people. It causes them to have less access to children. In addition, the part of the post that you didn't even mention, most of these offenders have parole and/or probation after getting out of prison. Supervision with rules.

Know what cuts down their desire to go after kids? The fear of the repercussions. Whether that is the parents or the law.

Would someone... PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!

 

[Southern Dad]

Would someone... PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!

Are child molesters on the sexual registry? Why yes. Yes, they are. What is your point? I certainly didn't say they were only ones. Maybe you have difficulty following conversations.

 

[Excon]

Could that be because of the long terms of supervised parole/probations that usually follow the incarceration for sexual offenders? The sexual offender registry and things like that?

Speculation as to the cause is tertiary to the point that was made and is therefore irrelevant to the specific discussion.
Let me give you an example of an argument that may drive the point home as to why speculative interjection is also irrelevant; The cause of such a low recidivism could be that they were wrongly charged and convicted in the first place, "and things like that".

 

[Ikari]

McAuliffe restores voting rights for 206K ex-felons; GOP calls it move to boost Clinton - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Virginia Politics

McAuliffe restores voting rights for 206K ex-felons; GOP calls it move to boost Clinton - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Virginia Politics


It doesn't get any slimier than this!

Outrageous......I hope Virginians vote this asshole out of office!

Once punishment has been completed in full, including parole/probation, then the full of one's rights and liberties should once again be recognized and protected.

 

[Caine]

Once punishment has been completed in full, including parole/probation, then the full of one's rights and liberties should once again be recognized and protected.

He has been governor since 2014...... Why do you suppose he started with this all of a sudden like?

Why don't you suppose he did this in 2014?, 2015?

Will he continue to sign these monthly restoration orders (article mentioned him having to do this every month as new people complete their sentences) in December?