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Utopia Nonfiction or Fiction

Loxd4

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Where did the Soviet Union fail at make a utopia? And how could a utopia be made? Is it imposable to make?
 
T

The Real McCoy

Loxd4 said:
Where did the Soviet Union fail at make a utopia? And how could a utopia be made? Is it imposable to make?
There's a myriad of reasons why the Soviets failed at creating a utopia. Most of them can be summed up by the fact that a large and powerful centralized government was necessary to carry out their socialistic policies and it couldn't bear the burden of it's own weight.

As for creating a utopia: due to people's selfish nature, a utopia is impossible... the only way I could envision a real utopia forming is if human nature evolves beyond our current self-centeredness and I don't see that happening for quite awhile.
 

Loxd4

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The Real McCoy said:
There's a myriad of reasons why the Soviets failed at creating a utopia. Most of them can be summed up by the fact that a large and powerful centralized government was necessary to carry out their socialistic policies and it couldn't bear the burden of it's own weight.

As for creating a utopia: due to people's selfish nature, a utopia is impossible... the only way I could envision a real utopia forming is if human nature evolves beyond our current self-centeredness and I don't see that happening for quite awhile.
So where did Soviets fail at make a utopia. And could a government as a human being ever get over it selfish nature, and is solicits and dictatorship like a utopia.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Loxd4 said:
So where did Soviets fail at make a utopia. And could a government as a human being ever get over it selfish nature, and is solicits and dictatorship like a utopia.
Since government's are made up of human beings, corruption is inevitable. And the only way a dictatorship could possibly be a utopia is if some Jesus-like figure was in charge.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Of course its immpossible.

Humans are flawed so any society that they produce will also be flawed. There will always be someone that wants what you have because there bigger or they work harder or there smart or there prettiter. Way to many variables to ever have a possibility
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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Well, Utopia means: Nowhere. So no, with our technology and culture,there can be no such thing as Utopia, becauses, unless you mind-control everyone, not everyone will believe the same thing you do or agree with you. That's a problem. Untill the day comes in which we can change that, it will always remain impossible.


The Soviet Union was a failure at Utopia from day one. Economic and social policy were against it. Following Marxist ideology was an intrinsic setback.
 
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Loxd4 said:
Where did the Soviet Union fail at make a utopia? And how could a utopia be made? Is it imposable to make?
Marx failed to make the connection that man is inherently evil and lustful of power so the evolution into a stateless system is impossible due to the fact that once given the power those in power will not give it up.
 

Loxd4

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Ok, what is the close you can get to a utopia in a government with humans flaws allowed? And is the Amish life style like a utopia. And if so I know they haven’t perfected it yet but could it be a big government in the near future.
 
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Loxd4 said:
Ok, what is the close you can get to a utopia in a government with humans flaws allowed? And is the Amish life style like a utopia. And if so I know they haven’t perfected it yet but could it be a big government in the near future.
Utopia is impossible, big government is not the answer and I would affirm that individualism is the best way to go.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Loxd4 said:
Ok, what is the close you can get to a utopia in a government with humans flaws allowed? And is the Amish life style like a utopia. And if so I know they haven’t perfected it yet but could it be a big government in the near future.
I say a libertarian society (not to be confused with all out anarchy) but that's just my humble opinion that the socialists will always demonize.

Amish life... no. The Amish continue to slip away from their orthodox lifestyle and with good reason.
 

Loxd4

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Utopia is impossible, big government is not the answer and I would affirm that individualism is the best way to go.
What type of government dose the Amish have? And you this work in a bigger goverment?
 

Loxd4

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Barter System Government without no money…Everyone is equal at the beginning of life to the day the die. The government would be self efficient by the people. People that work would receive food. No work no food will be served to them. The more they work the more receive.

What type of government is this? Is this a new type or a Utopia?
 

Comrade Brian

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Where did the Soviet Union fail at make a utopia?
Too big, repressive govt., recession in economy(reminds me of business cycles in capitalism).
Is it imposable to make?
Yes
Well, Utopia means: Nowhere.
Indeed it does, so its impossible to make a nowhere society.
Following Marxist ideology was an intrinsic setback
You're assuming it followed it.
Marx failed to make the connection that man is inherently evil and lustful of power
He actually did this better than many, he made it connected to capitalism, it couldn't work without it. And this is why the Utopian Socialist movement isn't a popular idea now, nor was Marx for it for those reasons.
big government is not the answer and I would affirm that individualism is the best way to go.
Communalism is best.
Big government sucks.
ALL govt. sucks.
 
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Loxd4 said:
Barter System Government without no money…Everyone is equal at the beginning of life to the day the die. The government would be self efficient by the people. People that work would receive food. No work no food will be served to them. The more they work the more receive.

What type of government is this? Is this a new type or a Utopia?
Somehow I don't see that working on a larger scale. Think about it, how would you get everyone on earth to choose one job? I mean being forced to be a farmer or a laborer isn't my idea of paradise.
 

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Well, things started to go wrong for them when Stalin, not Trotsky, took power...I wonder what would have happened if Trotsky won...
 

Calm2Chaos

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Loxd4 said:
Barter System Government without no money…Everyone is equal at the beginning of life to the day the die. The government would be self efficient by the people. People that work would receive food. No work no food will be served to them. The more they work the more receive.

What type of government is this? Is this a new type or a Utopia?
So the people that work have food the people that don't have none. So the people that don't kill those that do and take what they want..... That should work out brilliantly
 

Loxd4

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Calm2Chaos said:
So the people that work have food the people that don't have none. So the people that don't kill those that do and take what they want..... That should work out brilliantly
Best quote I ever seen...but what if you kick the people out that do not work...so they cant kill
 
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Loxd4 said:
Best quote I ever seen...but what if you kick the people out that do not work...so they cant kill
ya but how do you decide who gets to make that decision? Better yet how do you decide which people get to decide which people get to eat and which do not? This in itself would put in the neccessity of a state and then you got the Soviet Union all over again because if history has taught us anything it's that the state can not be trusted.

And besides how is living in a world in which you are not free to decide what you want to do with your life a utopia anyways?

I mean in our society the harder you work the better the job your going to get but in this society everyone would have to become one of the proletariat class in order for the society to function, sounds like classic Marxism to me,

wasn't it Reagan who said that: "How do you tell who is a communist? They read Marx and Lenin. How do you tell who is an anti-communist? They under stand Marx and Lennon."
 

Loxd4

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:2wave: The people would make there own decides just like in capitalism. They would work, leave or starve, so you would have a choice in the matter. The people that work, gets an equal amount of food. No work, no food! And ever one would have a job, but of course different jobs would have different standers. If a person wants to change jobs like the average American dose s/he would have to wait for a job opening just like in the U.S. In this government you are open free to come and go. To come you must work and to go there need’s no reason for that…beside you want to go or you are a free loader. If one person works harder then the other I can move up on the credit line. Credit line would work like money in the USA to buy stuff people want…not need because everything that a person need is equal given thought out the government. :spin: That is how the government would work and if you need people understanding this...please ask and i should have an answer...and would this be an know type of government or what is this type called and would this be better the other government.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Loxd4 said:
:2wave: The people would make there own decides just like in capitalism. They would work, leave or starve, so you would have a choice in the matter. The people that work, gets an equal amount of food. No work, no food!
So a neuro-surgeon who has to go through over a decade of post high-school education and a mindless drone who operates a cashier should get an equal amount of food? There'd be no incentive whatsoever to attain high-level jobs like lawyers and doctors.


Loxd4 said:
And ever one would have a job, but of course different jobs would have different standers. If a person wants to change jobs like the average American dose s/he would have to wait for a job opening just like in the U.S. In this government you are open free to come and go. To come you must work and to go there need’s no reason for that…beside you want to go or you are a free loader. If one person works harder then the other I can move up on the credit line. Credit line would work like money in the USA to buy stuff people want…not need because everything that a person need is equal given thought out the government. :spin: That is how the government would work and if you need people understanding this...please ask and i should have an answer...and would this be an know type of government or what is this type called and would this be better the other government.
Where does entrepreneurship and investing in new pro-growth ideas factor in to your plan?
 

Loxd4

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Well is there any way to have capitalism but make sure everyone has food and shelter? And maybe even have no unemployment?
 
T

The Real McCoy

Loxd4 said:
Well is there any way to have capitalism but make sure everyone has food and shelter? And maybe even have no unemployment?
Absolutely. But that's about all they'd have.
 
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