Utah governor says he'll veto transgender youth sports ban

[jotathought]

Finally some common sense on this issue.

Utah governor says he'll veto transgender youth sports ban

Without his support, Utah is unlikely to join the 11 Republican-led states that have recently banned trans women and girls from participating on female sports teams.

www.nbcnews.com

Less able to oppress gay people since the nationwide legalization of gay marriage, social conservatives have focused their ignorant hate on trans people, in particular, trans female athletes. What the social cons never admit is that (1) these are an extremely tiny number of athletes, and (2) many many more trans people are forced to endure transphobic hatred, bullying, and discrimination. That should be addressed first.

Furthermore, if transphobes are so "concerned" (a word they use as a euphemism for hate-filled) that trans female athletes actually have advantages, then they should allow trans youth to, under the care of professional physicians, receive the hormone therapy that they deserve. But some transphobes are opposed to that, too, because their goal is to just keep trans people down.

Excellent!

Nothing like attempting to trump (pun intended) actual females with more dominant males who pretend to be females.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Finally some common sense on this issue.

Utah governor says he'll veto transgender youth sports ban

Without his support, Utah is unlikely to join the 11 Republican-led states that have recently banned trans women and girls from participating on female sports teams.

www.nbcnews.com

Less able to oppress gay people since the nationwide legalization of gay marriage, social conservatives have focused their ignorant hate on trans people, in particular, trans female athletes. What the social cons never admit is that (1) these are an extremely tiny number of athletes, and (2) many many more trans people are forced to endure transphobic hatred, bullying, and discrimination. That should be addressed first.

Furthermore, if transphobes are so "concerned" (a word they use as a euphemism for hate-filled) that trans female athletes actually have advantages, then they should allow trans youth to, under the care of professional physicians, receive the hormone therapy that they deserve. But some transphobes are opposed to that, too, because their goal is to just keep trans people down.

Does fair not mean anything to the left anymore? Is it just more important to recognize as normal any behavior that someone wants to exhibit? Transgirls/women are not girls/ women. They are men with mens bodies and the advantages that being born male provides physically. You can't compensate for that, so it's inherently unfair to allow them to compete agains biological girls/women.
This acceptance of these abnormal behaviors doesn't mean that you should punish others in the process. Acceptance doesn't have to mean approval of anything they want.
If transgender people want to compete, then have a transgender classification. The left idea of multiple genders should separate all those genders for physical competition.

 

[Redress]

I think you should read what was ACTUALLY said and stop making up retarded lies and strawman, that way your post won't look so stupid and get the shit kicked out of them so easily when you cant defend them as proven LMAO
or dont and keep up out entertainment, either way nothing changes, why lpost so many lies?

fact remains your argument stated is based on your subjective feelings

I see... You fabricate the basis for my argument just to create an opportunity to attack and insult me... Which is what you have been doing for years on this forum.

I really thought that after this many years you would have grown up and stopped your childish trolling, but I obviously overestimated you.

Moderator's Warning:

There are appropriate places for the childish fued you two have, but it is not upstairs. I suggest you end this now.

 

[Ginger Ale]

^ This is what projection looks like. The Far Right does not care about women athletes and certainly not about trans people but about their far-right agenda.

It's hilarious on here right now. Black people have had a proven disadvantage for years, and I'll I hear from conservatives is, they're imagining it. But when it comes to a handful of trans wanting to play sports, it's so unfair.

I'm realizing you can pick a topic, and they'll just jump to the other side for good posture.

I don't think for a second they care if anyone has a disadvantage or not.

From reading the article you posted they don't seem to have much of an advantage. Seems they'll work it out. But hopefully all concerns are addressed.

 

[lwf]

This is one of those issues where I can see both sides; however, I tilt ever so slightly toward total equality. Yes, women are at a disadvantage in some sports when competing with trans-male-to-female. In other areas, men may be disadvantaged by trans-female-to-male. Not everything in life is fair; however, everything in life should be basically equal.

Yes, I know that probably made no sense to anyone but me, lol.

Makes sense to me. The other aspect of this is how large of a problem this unfairness to women actually is. Last time I checked, (within the year) there were less than 100 transgender athletes currently competing in college sports across the entire US, and that includes transmen as well. How many individual incidents of deliberate cheating in sports do you suppose there are there in just one university over the course of a whole year?

This isn't actually about fairness in sports. It's solely about society's personal and irrational discomfort with gender bending.

 

[Gaius46]

It's hilarious on here right now. Black people have had a proven disadvantage for years, and I'll I hear from conservatives is, they're imagining it. But when it comes to a handful of trans wanting to play sports, it's so unfair.

I'm realizing you can pick a topic, and they'll just jump to the other side for good posture.

I don't think for a second they care if anyone has a disadvantage or not.

From reading the article you posted they don't seem to have much of an advantage. Seems they'll work it out. But hopefully all concerns are addressed.

Trans women have a huge advantage in strength. That is physiological reality. And sincw strength underpins many sports they then have an advantage in those sports.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Trans women have a huge advantage in strength. That is physiological reality. And sincw strength underpins many sports they then have an advantage in those sports.

That's questionable. Especially on the high school level. Are we going to start testing the testosterone of all women, to see who's at a disadvantage? Go through all the sports and see which matter, and which don't.

If it was a huge advantage as you say, and the link to this male hormone was the kicker, trans women would be winning all the competitions. Are they? No. High testosterone is associated with better performance in a very small number of athletic disciplines.

All female athletes are different as well. Are we going to test everyone to make sure their talents, or anatomies are even?

What about female football players? Unfair?

Female football player dreams of making NFL, gets to star in Super Bowl commercial for Toyota

A sophomore female football player will star in a Toyota ad telling people she’s going to play in the Super Bowl someday.

www.usatoday.com

This 16-year-old is defying stereotypes: She’s starting free safety on her high school varsity football team

“I like being aggressive, and I have a highly competitive side,” says Brooklyn Harker of Chapel Hill High School in North Carolina.

www.aol.com

“She’s always been really rough and tumble,” says mom Jennifer Harker. “She really can hold her own out there with the boys, and she’s played so many different positions. That’s the big ‘wow’ factor.”

If people are really upset, or complaining and there's a clear disadvantage then yeah, but so far that isn't the case. Seems like politicians care more about it then the actual kids do.

I think things will have to change a bit in the future, as we get more open about who people really are, and allow them to be themselves.

 

[Phys251]

Does fair not mean anything to the left anymore? Is it just more important to recognize as normal any behavior that someone wants to exhibit? Transgirls/women are not girls/ women. They are men with mens bodies and the advantages that being born male provides physically. You can't compensate for that, so it's inherently unfair to allow them to compete agains biological girls/women.
This acceptance of these abnormal behaviors doesn't mean that you should punish others in the process. Acceptance doesn't have to mean approval of anything they want.
If transgender people want to compete, then have a transgender classification. The left idea of multiple genders should separate all those genders for physical competition.

Whatever claim for "fairness" might be in there is polluted by transphobic bullshit.

 

[Phys251]

There are some legitimate concerns that go beyond your liberal name calling.

I'm sorry that you don't want to call transphobia for what it is.

In sports we always seek competitive advantage, and we always seek to maximize that competitive advantage. So it's not outside of reason to worry or caution that transgender athletes will tilt the scales in women's sports to the point where most if not all of the starting lineup in women's sports is transgender.

It won't be women's sports at all. It's the ultimate form of male dominance in the sports world.

If you seek to deny those who were born women and still identify as women from as chance to compete on a level playing field in organized sports, then by all means proceed.

Already addressed by the article.

No reason we can't have transgender sports, I know that is separate but equal, but we already accept this with men's and women's sports because it gives women many opportunities they would otherwise be denied. You seem to be seeking to deny them anyway.

"Separate but equal." Where have we heard that before?

 

[TurtleDude]

BOOM!!!!! proven right again, triggered meltdown right on cue!!! LMAO
there was NOTHING in this thread that needs addressing based on "MY stance" nor anything that factually harms "my stance"
your post loses again thanks for playing
quick make another one full of retarded dishonest assumptions and strawmen . . ready . . go!!!!

SJWs!!!!! GRRRRRR!!

more parrot squawking throwing "triggered" and meltdown" around mindlessly with malice aforethought. It's pavlovian with you-when you don't have the ability to actually address a point, you spew the same mindless bullshit. The only loser I see on this thread, is the idiotic posts that think society is better off letting fake women compete against real ones

 

[TurtleDude]

Whatever claim for "fairness" might be in there is polluted by transphobic bullshit.

can you actually comprehend that plenty of people are not transphobic-we just don't believe that real women should be denied titles or athletic success by those who have an artificial advantage-like that "woman"at the U of Penn who was a minor leaguer as a male swimmer and now has been winning tons of races, swimming against real women.

 

[American]

This is one of those issues where I can see both sides; however, I tilt ever so slightly toward total equality. Yes, women are at a disadvantage in some sports when competing with trans-male-to-female. In other areas, men may be disadvantaged by trans-female-to-male. Not everything in life is fair; however, everything in life should be basically equal.

Yes, I know that probably made no sense to anyone but me, lol.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[AGENT J]

more parrot squawking throwing "triggered" and meltdown" around mindlessly with malice aforethought. It's pavlovian with you-when you don't have the ability to actually address a point, you spew the same mindless bullshit. The only loser I see on this thread, is the idiotic posts that think society is better off letting fake women compete against real ones

sweet irony a triggered meltdown post all about ME, full of lies, not the topic and dodging anything "I" anything I ACTUALLY said, VERY telling.
I love when these types of posts just keep proving me right. "Fake women" LMAO
QUick make another failed random triggered post about nothing I said. I love it!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

none of the people who think XYs ought to compete against XXs care about fair competition or the good of the sport. It is all about pushing an agenda onto society

Why not just leave it up to the state high school athletic associations? That is traditionally where issues relating to rules and qualifying for different sports have been handled. Moreover, its traditionally where conservatives said issues related to school sports should be handled. That is what tells me that ultimately this is just another culture war whipping post to gin up the religious right/social conservatives.

BTW, I do not think that male to female transgendered athletes should be able to compete in women's sports where they have a clear biological advantage (basically anywhere muscle mass or vo2 max is an advantage). I am just not sure why this should not be left up to athletic associations.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Finally some common sense on this issue.

Utah governor says he'll veto transgender youth sports ban

Without his support, Utah is unlikely to join the 11 Republican-led states that have recently banned trans women and girls from participating on female sports teams.

www.nbcnews.com

Less able to oppress gay people since the nationwide legalization of gay marriage, social conservatives have focused their ignorant hate on trans people, in particular, trans female athletes. What the social cons never admit is that (1) these are an extremely tiny number of athletes, and (2) many many more trans people are forced to endure transphobic hatred, bullying, and discrimination. That should be addressed first.

Furthermore, if transphobes are so "concerned" (a word they use as a euphemism for hate-filled) that trans female athletes actually have advantages, then they should allow trans youth to, under the care of professional physicians, receive the hormone therapy that they deserve. But some transphobes are opposed to that, too, because their goal is to just keep trans people down.

It's not hate. It's the recognition of reality, there are advantages to having been a man, and it's not "trans female" it's "transwoman" - female is a sex, and sex is different than gender. Sex and gender are not the same thing. A transwoman is still sexually male, and that's where the advantage comes from, due physiology and genetics.

The differences and advantages may not be as great if you transition a child pre-pubescent, but then you're destroying that kid's body at a time when they aren't fully aware of the import in their actions. Hormone blockers and surgery in little kids is child abuse. What some need is therapy to learn to accept themselves, and be happy. A boy dressing up in dresses isn't necessarily "really a girl." He could be gay, he could be going through a phase, he could just be playing around and likes to dress up in girls' clothes, he could like being a drag queen, who knows? By the time he's 14, 16, 18 or 21, whatever it was can and will change.

Trans youth have no shortage of physicians available, like everyone else. The issue for the trans lobby is that most doctors don't meet with a patient and hear "you know I think I was born in the wrong body" and go straight to "ok, I'm going to prescribe you some puberty blockers, and we'll get you ready for surgery." Most will evaluate over a signficant period of time what the problem is, referrals might be made for psychiatric treatment or therapy, and some understanding of what is going on with the patient will be done.

But, the idea that dads who don't want their daughters to lose their women's sports scholarships to a male who identifies as female - the idea that that is "hate" is just the Left's bullshit narrative and smear tacting against their "enemies." Everyone with a different opinion - and now everyone who even thinks humans are sexually dimorphic species of primate - are "hating" people - it's the same old tired refrain - everyone is racist, everyone is sexist, everyone is homophobic blah blah blah blah.

 

[vegas giants]

Finally some common sense on this issue.

Utah governor says he'll veto transgender youth sports ban

Without his support, Utah is unlikely to join the 11 Republican-led states that have recently banned trans women and girls from participating on female sports teams.

www.nbcnews.com

Less able to oppress gay people since the nationwide legalization of gay marriage, social conservatives have focused their ignorant hate on trans people, in particular, trans female athletes. What the social cons never admit is that (1) these are an extremely tiny number of athletes, and (2) many many more trans people are forced to endure transphobic hatred, bullying, and discrimination. That should be addressed first.

Furthermore, if transphobes are so "concerned" (a word they use as a euphemism for hate-filled) that trans female athletes actually have advantages, then they should allow trans youth to, under the care of professional physicians, receive the hormone therapy that they deserve. But some transphobes are opposed to that, too, because their goal is to just keep trans people down.

Should that tiny number be allowed a competitive advantage? Should a make athlete that was ranked 200th in his state and now wins most events as a trans woman be allowed that competitive advantage?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Natural born "cis" females have unfair privileges.

Oh, well, some people are taller, so they can reach higher things. Some people are shorter, so they can duck quicker. Some people have faster reflexes. Others are faster runners.

When I was growing up, I was terrible at sports, both because of an apparent genetic lack of coordination and native ability, but also due to eyesight problems. My parents stuck me in baseball, one of the worst sports for a kid with coke-bottle glasses, and who was never taught to hold a baseball properly or swing a bat until I got to little league. So, were the other kids "privileged" because they had parents who knew the game and helped them train and learn? (mine were foreigners so, they didn't know shit about baseball), Were the others privileged because they were faster, quicker, stronger, or had better eyesight?

The answer is -- no. That's not "privilege." And, that's not "unfair." It's no more of a privilege or unfairness than the fact that the early bird gets the worm, or the strongest silverback gorilla gets the most mates.

This whole idea that every inequality is an unfairness, every natural advantage is a "privilege" is a foolish waste of time and energy and it is just false. Elon Musk isn't "privileged" - he's smarter and more skilled than others. Good for him. Kobe Bryant is not "privileged" because of his size, strength and athletic ability.

the Left needs to cut this crap out, because it's getting old and tiresome - the constant bitching from the Left is insufferable, and every frickin' issue is them demanding that other people cater to them because they are somehow in every respect "underprivileged" and "oppressed." Stop. You're not. You're like everybody else. Cut the crap.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It's not hate. It's the recognition of reality, there are advantages to having been a man, and it's not "trans female" it's "transwoman" - female is a sex, and sex is different than gender. Sex and gender are not the same thing. A transwoman is still sexually male, and that's where the advantage comes from, due physiology and genetics.

That is an over simplification. A male to female trans does not have all the advantages of a male athlete. Part of the transition involves suppressing testosterone which reduces muscle percentage, hematocrit, and increases recovery times. Where they have an advantage is heart and lung capacity and the fact that they do not have menstrual cycles and their accompanying blood loss. Point being, in some sports a male to female trans has some advantages over a genetically female athlete, but it is not the same advantages a male athlete has over a female athlete in those sports.

This is why this should be handled by athletic boards rather than used as culture war whipping post by state legislatures.

 

[Phys251]

It's not hate. It's the recognition of reality, there are advantages to having been a man, and it's not "trans female" it's "transwoman"

Your opinion does not change who trans women are. The people who want to discriminate against trans people are the same ones who don't want them to receive the hormone therapy that they are entitled to. For instance:

- female is a sex, and sex is different than gender. Sex and gender are not the same thing. A transwoman is still sexually male, and that's where the advantage comes from, due physiology and genetics.

The differences and advantages may not be as great if you transition a child pre-pubescent, but then you're destroying that kid's body at a time when they aren't fully aware of the import in their actions. Hormone blockers and surgery in little kids is child abuse. What some need is therapy to learn to accept themselves, and be happy. A boy dressing up in dresses isn't necessarily "really a girl." He could be gay, he could be going through a phase, he could just be playing around and likes to dress up in girls' clothes, he could like being a drag queen, who knows? By the time he's 14, 16, 18 or 21, whatever it was can and will change.

Trans youth have no shortage of physicians available, like everyone else. The issue for the trans lobby is that most doctors don't meet with a patient and hear "you know I think I was born in the wrong body" and go straight to "ok, I'm going to prescribe you some puberty blockers, and we'll get you ready for surgery." Most will evaluate over a signficant period of time what the problem is, referrals might be made for psychiatric treatment or therapy, and some understanding of what is going on with the patient will be done.

But, the idea that dads who don't want their daughters to lose their women's sports scholarships to a male who identifies as female - the idea that that is "hate" is just the Left's bullshit narrative and smear tacting against their "enemies." Everyone with a different opinion - and now everyone who even thinks humans are sexually dimorphic species of primate - are "hating" people - it's the same old tired refrain - everyone is racist, everyone is sexist, everyone is homophobic blah blah blah blah.

How do you manage to lie so much in one single post? You act as if you know trans people better than they know themselves. You don't.