Utah Bans Transition Care for Transgender Youth

[Irredentist]

Yes you have.

Nope. Delaying natural puberty at the proper age cause irreversible harm.

Yes it is.

Such as, a man believing he is/should be a woman.

They don’t WANT to be. They think they are.

Correct. Thinking you AREA the president is. Such as a man thinking they are a woman.

Yes. A man thinking they are a woman is delusional.

You do not seem to have a very clear understanding of what it means to be transgender. Transgender people do not believe themselves to be a different biological sex than what they are. A biological male who is transgender knows that he is biologically a male. But his biological maleness conflicts with his internal gender identity as a woman. That is why transgender people often seek surgery to alter their bodies to be more in line with their internal identities. Think about it, if transgender people truly were under the delusion that their biological sex was different than what it was, why would they feel the need to get surgery to correct it?

 

[Irredentist]

If believing one is the opposite sex, and actually going through medical procedures to look like the opposite sex, doesn't make someone transgender, then WTF does that word even mean now?

Sounds like a No True Scotsman fallacy, combined with a bit of gender mysticism that being trans is some metaphysical state of being.

By the way, laws like this exist so that children DON'T make those poor decisions.

Transgender people do not believe themselves to be a different biological sex than what they are. Transgender people are fully aware of their biological sex. It's just that their biological sex is in conflict with their internal gender identity. That is why they often seek surgery to alter their outward appearance to be more in line with their internal gender identity.

 

[rahl]

You do not seem to have a very clear understanding of what it means to be transgender.

Of course I do.

Transgender people do not believe themselves to be a different biological sex than what they are. A biological male who is transgender knows that he is biologically a male. But his biological maleness conflicts with his internal gender identity as a woman.

There is no such thing as a internal gender. You are either male, or female.

That is why transgender people often seek surgery to alter their bodies to be more in line with their internal identities.

Which, as an adult, they are free to have whatever mutilating elective surgery they would like. Inflicting children with mutilating and permanent surgery is child abuse.

Think about it, if transgender people truly were under the delusion that their biological sex was different than what it was, why would they feel the need to get surgery to correct it?

Because they believe they are in the wrong body. Pandering to that mental illness is not doing anyone any good.

 

[Irredentist]

Of course I do.

There is no such thing as a internal gender. You are either male, or female.

You cannot claim to understand what it means to be transgender, while simultaneously rejecting the concept of gender identity, as it is essential to the definition.

Which, as an adult, they are free to have whatever mutilating elective surgery they would like. Inflicting children with mutilating and permanent surgery is child abuse.

What are your opinions on circumcision?

Because they believe they are in the wrong body. Pandering to that mental illness is not doing anyone any good.

Wanting to have a different body than you do is not a delusion. If it was, everyone who ever went to the gym or got plastic surgery would be delusional, which obviously is not the case.

 

[rahl]

You cannot claim to understand what it means to be transgender, while simultaneously rejecting the concept of gender identity, as it is essential to the definition.

Of course I can. Reality doesn't care about your ideology, or feelings. You are either male or female (barring a genetic aberration)

What are your opinions on circumcision?

I'm circumcised.

Wanting to have a different body than you do is not a delusion.

If you are a male and want a female body, because you "Feel" like a female, you are delusional.

If it was, everyone who ever went to the gym or got plastic surgery would be delusional, which obviously is not the case.

lol no.

 

[Irredentist]

Of course I can. Reality doesn't care about your ideology, or feelings. You are either male or female (barring a genetic aberration)

I'm circumcised.

Oh, so you actually do support subjecting infants to permanent mutilation? Interesting.

If you are a male and want a female body, because you "Feel" like a female, you are delusional.

lol no.

Again, being a biological male but wanting a female body is not a delusion. Wanting to be something that you are not is not a delusion.

 

[rahl]

Oh, so you actually do support subjecting infants to permanent mutilation? Interesting.

I simply said I was circumsized.

Again, being a biological male but wanting a female body is not a delusion.

yes, it is.

Wanting to be something that you are not is not a delusion.

A male that wants to be female, is delusional. A man can't become a female.

 

[Irredentist]

I simply said I was circumsized.

yes, it is.

A male that wants to be female, is delusional. A man can't become a female.

So now you don't understand the definition of a delusion? Wanting to be something other than what you are, is not a delusion. Me wanting to be the President of the United States is not a delusion.

 

[rahl]

So now you don't understand the definition of a delusion?

I have cited the DSM criteria in dozens of threads on this topic.

Wanting to be something other than what you are, is not a delusion.

If you are a male, and think you are/should be a female (what a transgender is) is by definition and diagnosis, delusional.

Me wanting to be the President of the United States is not a delusion.

You THINKING you ARE the president, is. Just like a male that thinks they are really a female inside is.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I thought that was the point.

Utah Bans Transition Care for Transgender Youth (NYT, Subscription)​

Gov. Spencer Cox of Utah signed a bill on Saturday that blocks minors from receiving gender-transition health care, the first such measure in the country this year in what is expected to be a wave of legislation by state lawmakers to restrict transgender rights.

The law prohibits transgender youth in the state from receiving gender-affirming surgery and places an indefinite ban on hormone therapy, with limited exceptions.

Mr. Cox, a Republican, said in a statement that banning these treatments was necessary until more research could be done on their long-term effects.

“While we understand our words will be of little comfort to those who disagree with us, we sincerely hope that we can treat our transgender families with more love and respect as we work to better understand the science and consequences behind these procedures,” the governor said.

Once again, a State ignores medical science (yes, I know they claim not to), the wishes of parents (so much for "family values") and pushes to harm a significant part of the US population as political theater. I expect this will be struck down in short order. The Supreme Court - particularly the "conservatives" - have long pushed the fundamental interest of parents in the care and raising of children:

"The liberty interest at issue in this case-the interest of parents in the care, custody, and control of their childrenis perhaps the oldest of the fundamental liberty interests recognized by this Court. More than 75 years ago, in Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U. S. 390, 399, 401 (1923), we held that the "liberty" protected by the Due Process Clause includes the right of parents to "establish a home and bring up children" and "to control the education of their own." Two years later, in Pierce v. Society of Sisters, 268 U. S. 510, 534-535 (1925), we again held that the "liberty of parents and guardians" includes the right "to direct the upbringing and education of children under their control." We explained in Pierce that "[t]he child is not the mere creature of the State; those who nurture him and direct his destiny have the right, coupled with the high duty, to recognize and prepare him for additional obligations." Id., at 535. We returned to the subject in Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U. S. 158 (1944), and again confirmed that there is a constitutional dimension to the right of parents to direct the upbringing of their children. "It is cardinal with us that the custody, care and nurture of the child reside first in the parents, whose primary function and freedom include preparation for obligations the state can neither supply nor hinder." Id., at 166.

Continued.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Dictating which medical procedures can and cannot be done is highly intrusive into a person's rights.

I remember a time when women of America had to confront a system that still banned mid wives and home birthing. And then claim to be the "freest nation on earth"...which is only true when spoken by wealthy white men.

I say this again: Americans are NOT free. You are more controlled by the state than you realize. "Freedom" is just another word for the right to hurl when they want something banned.

 

[Irredentist]

I have cited the DSM criteria in dozens of threads on this topic.

If you are a male, and think you are/should be a female (what a transgender is) is by definition and diagnosis, delusional.

You THINKING you ARE the president, is. Just like a male that thinks they are really a female inside is.

The DSM does not define gender dysphoria as a delusion, try again.

 

[vegas giants]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Dictating which medical procedures can and cannot be done is highly intrusive into a person's rights.

I remember a time when women of America had to confront a system that still banned mid wives and home birthing. And then claim to be the "freest nation on earth"...which is only true when spoken by wealthy white men.

I say this again: Americans are NOT free. You are more controlled by the state than you realize. "Freedom" is just another word for the right to hurl when they want something banned.

Lots of treatments are banned such as conversion therapy

 

[rahl]

The DSM does not define gender dysphoria as a delusion, try again.

That is a separate mental illness from delusional disorder. Believing you are something you are provably not, is by definition and diagnosis, delusional.

 

[Gatsby]

Transgender people do not believe themselves to be a different biological sex than what they are. Transgender people are fully aware of their biological sex. It's just that their biological sex is in conflict with their internal gender identity. That is why they often seek surgery to alter their outward appearance to be more in line with their internal gender identity.

Then how is it possible for detransitioners to be No True Trans? They believed they were the opposite gender, and even went as far as making medical changes to their bodies. Which sounds like they were, by definition, trans.

The fact that you are blaming this on a "bad decision" by a CHILD is exactly the problem. We have laws to protect children from such bad decisions. In most states you can't even get a tattoo until you're 18. It's raving insanity to want kids to be able to change their bodies to match the opposite sex.

 

[NWRatCon]

Of kids? You better believe it

Of death and disfigurement. It's more likely from non-treatment, as I just demonstrated. I guess you skipped that part (again).

 

[vegas giants]

Of death and disfigurement. It's more likely from non-treatment, as I just demonstrated. I guess you skipped that part (again).

You never answered


Why do you hate kids?

 

[NWRatCon]

Provide all the psychiatric care they need free of charge. Fine with me

Your fixation is frankly dangerous.

 

[vegas giants]

Your fixation is frankly dangerous.

Have you always hated kids?


We can do this personal stuff forever if you want

 

[NWRatCon]

Feminizing hormone therapy - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

Some of the physical changes caused by feminizing hormone therapy can be reversed if you stop taking it. Others, such as breast development, cannot be reversed.

And infertility

Cherry picking and pretending Mayo agrees with you is just plain dishonest:

"Feminizing hormone therapy can:

• Improve psychological and social well-being.
• Ease psychological and emotional distress related to gender.
• Improve satisfaction with sex.
• Improve quality of life...."

It's why the Mayo Clinic provides that therapy.

 

[vegas giants]

Cherry picking and pretending Mayo agrees with you is just plain dishonest:

"Feminizing hormone therapy can:

• Improve psychological and social well-being.
• Ease psychological and emotional distress related to gender.
• Improve satisfaction with sex.
• Improve quality of life...."

It's why the Mayo Clinic provides that therapy.

Feminizing hormone therapy might limit your fertility. If possible, it's best to make decisions about fertility before starting treatment. The risk of permanent infertility increases with long-term use of hormones. That is particularly true for those who start hormone therapy before puberty begins. Even after stopping hormone therapy, your testicles might not recover enough to ensure conception without infertility treatment.

 

[NWRatCon]

I care about ALL kids

That is not apparent from your posts.

 

[vegas giants]

That is not apparent from your posts.

Did you always hate kids?

 

[Lisa]

What the science tells us is that gender dysphoria resolves naturally with puberty in the vast majority of cases. So it seems prudent that such permanent body modification surgeries and puberty blockers be prohibited for children.

No it doesn't resolve naturally with age at puberty. Where did you get that absurd claim? Many people question their gender identity but gender dysphoria that is created with a persons biological sex is significantly incongruent with their gender identity to cause anxiety and depression, doesn't resolve itself naturally, ever.

Call someone at the Wexner clinic and they will explain it to you, free of charge.

Gender-Affirming Care | Ohio State Medical Center

Here is some info from Ohio State – improving lives through excellence in research, education and patient care.

wexnermedical.osu.edu

Did you always hate kids?

Why do you hate transgender kids, or don't they exist in your world? You want to ignore the problem until the age of 18 and then consider treating it but you also refuse to accept the responsibility of the damage that your idea creates, or how many will have committed suicide or have lifelong mental health problems because of your head-in-the-sand ideas. What are their lives worth and how much do you have in liability insurance to pay for that care or the damage your ideas have created?

 

[NWRatCon]

Why do you hate transgender kids, or don't they exist in your world? You want to ignore the problem until the age of 18 and then consider treating it but you also refuse to accept the responsibility of the damage that your idea creates, or how many will have committed suicide or have lifelong mental health problems because of your head-in-the-sand ideas. What are their lives worth and how much do you have in liability insurance to pay for that care or the damage your ideas have created?

He's making a weak effort to troll me and just looking ridiculous in the process. He lost the intellectual/rational fight pages ago and just keeps coming back to the same failed assertion in an attempt to be annoying. I'm not sure what inspired it, but it certainly is tedious and childish.