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using deaths of military personal in debates...

VoodooChild

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After seeing this happening on this forum a couple of times I’m just going to speak my mind…

Several thousand men and women have died in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 9 years. **** sucks. May they rest in peace, and my condolences go out to their families. But what pisses me off about the whole thing (other than terrorist killing my fellow Americans) is how their deaths are used to justify ending a war.

Being a active duty Marine who is hoping to be able to hop on an upcoming afgan deployment, it’s nothing but a kick in the balls when I hear some little punk bitch collage kid crying about how we are sending marines and soldiers to their death. Shut up. Every Marine I know is wishing they were in Afghanistan getting shot at so they could kill a terrorist. Not for country or any of that bull****… But because they joined to see combat and they want to experience it. You go to an infantry barracks back at Lejeune and I want you to ask everyone there if they want to kill a terrorist. The answer will be yes. I want you to find me a Marine who doesn’t want to see a 500lb JDAM level an insurgent’s position. Or witness a couple LAVs firing their 25mm’s bringing death and destruction to the enemies of this nation. I’m coming up on 3 years now and I haven’t found one.

The fact of the matter is people who join, especially the infantry, want to see combat. For all of the marines that have died do you think they would be insulted to hear that some liberal punk, who doesn’t even know them, used there their death as a tool to somehow get others to feel sympathy for him and his buddies in the name of peace and harmony? F@#$ NO! Stop using the death of marines and soldiers to end a war.

There are reasons to stay and reasons to pullout. It’s debated all over the news, internet, and this very forum. But don’t throw around the deaths of Marines and Soldiers to better your argument of why we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If you truly respect those who have lost their lives, don’t do it…
 

rathi

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You have no right to pretend that you speak for every marine. Like any group of people, everyone in the Marines have their own reasons for what they do. You expose your hypocrisy for committing the same sin you denounce others for.
 

ecofarm

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No soldier wants the war ended (in failure) because of their own sacrifice. While casualties may be a macro-factor, no soldier wants their own noble acts of sacrifice for country and friends to be used in ending the mission. We want our sacrifice to be meaningful and to push us towards our objective. It is disheartening to think that our ultimate sacrifice could actually work against the mission.

82nd Abn Inf 90-94


ps. Where'd you serve, rathi?
 
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Civil1z@tion

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I understand the idea that soldiers don't want their deaths to be used against the very mission they signed up for. Using soldier death counts as an anti-war move does make a lot more sense when the soldiers have been drafted, and of course the US military is currently an all volunteer force. And of course after nearly 9 years in Afghanistan and 7 years in Iraq, every soldier who has enlisted or re-enlisted at this point knows that deployment to one of those two war zones at some point is not only possible, but is probable. So if anti-war people want to use casualty figures, those of American soldiers probably aren't the best to use. However, there is a semi-neglected figure that could be used, that of civilian casualties. In many cases they would have no such qualms about their deaths being used to fuel the anti-war movement and a lot more civilians have died than American troops (most killed by insurgents but that's not all that important for the anti-war people as if US soldiers hadn't come in then the insurgents wouldn't have been around to kill civilians). But this number is far more rarely used primarily on the theory that Americans don't give a crap about the deaths of foreigners, at least not nearly as much as they care about the death of soldiers.
 

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Personally, I don't have so much of a problem with people using numbers as I do with them using names of dead soldiers. Using numbers is certainly still disrespectful, but to many intelligent people, comparing numbers to other wars and how we conducted those wars and are currently conducting wars, taking into account weapons and training and restrictions on wars of the past and those now and how they could affect those numbers, shows that the casualties we are currently seeing are not really that bad, overall. Also, numbers are really impersonal to me. (Now, I do think any casualty is sad, but I don't think that's the point of the thread.) I have a huge problem with someone using the names of the dead soldiers to further their side, considering most of them and most likely their families are not asked, especially true when talking about anti-war groups. I absolutely believe that it is extremely disrespectful and should be wrong to use anyone's name to further a cause without their or at least, their family's permission.
 

roughdraft274

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Every Marine I know is wishing they were in Afghanistan getting shot at so they could kill a terrorist. Not for country or any of that bull****… But because they joined to see combat and they want to experience it. You go to an infantry barracks back at Lejeune and I want you to ask everyone there if they want to kill a terrorist. The answer will be yes. I want you to find me a Marine who doesn’t want to see a 500lb JDAM level an insurgent’s position. Or witness a couple LAVs firing their 25mm’s bringing death and destruction to the enemies of this nation. I’m coming up on 3 years now and I haven’t found one.

If what I'm getting from your post is true and our marines just joined to kill people and see combat and not because they love their country and want to serve and help they're country and help keep america safe (which I don't think is true at all) then we are in more trouble than I ever thought.

I'm trying to figure out a more respectful way to put this but I'm coming up short, but, if you joined the marines because you wanted to experience killing someone and not "for your country or any of that bull****" then you shouldn't be in the marines.
 

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You have no right to pretend that you speak for every marine. Like any group of people, everyone in the Marines have their own reasons for what they do. You expose your hypocrisy for committing the same sin you denounce others for.

I spent my first enlistment with the Grunts; i can back his general experience. sure you might have your random outliers, but the general majority of Marines (especially grunts) would prefer to deploy and take the fight to the enemy. frankly, if peace breaks out, i will probably get out of the military. how horrible it must be to be in a peacetime military. as an 0351, it was every Assaultmans' dream to be able to put a rocket into an enemy position.
 

cpwill

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If what I'm getting from your post is true and our marines just joined to kill people and see combat and not because they love their country and want to serve and help they're country and help keep america safe (which I don't think is true at all) then we are in more trouble than I ever thought.

I'm trying to figure out a more respectful way to put this but I'm coming up short, but, if you joined the marines because you wanted to experience killing someone and not "for your country or any of that bull****" then you shouldn't be in the marines.

hmmm... I don't really know how to explain it to you without either sounding insulting, or coming off as a psycho. I will say that this is one of those things that you probably should be hesitant to make judgements on unless you have been there, and I would highly recommend to you On Killing by Col. Grossman. What VoodooChild is describing is actually a defensive mechanism. Marines are trained, taught, and impressed to want to kill the enemy because killing other human beings is generally an unnatural act for today's society. Without that deliberate training (and later, constant, encouragement), the act of killing can become psychologically destructive to the actor or (worse) he will probably refuse to do so, and be killed in turn. Before Marines kill, it is vitally important that they be primed and prepped to do so, and after they kill (so long as they are not out murdering innocents) it is vitally important that they be commended and rewarded.

On top of that, there is a strong sense of community. My boys just left to go over to Afghanistan last week. I know it's going to rip me up that I am not there with them when they start to take casualties; when Marines are in the fight, every other Marine wants to run to the sound of the guns and fight with them.
 
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ecofarm

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I'm surprised that I was moved from "it's all about the motive" to "it's all about the urgency" so quickly. Nice show.
 

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If what I'm getting from your post is true and our marines just joined to kill people and see combat and not because they love their country and want to serve and help they're country and help keep america safe (which I don't think is true at all) then we are in more trouble than I ever thought.

I'm trying to figure out a more respectful way to put this but I'm coming up short, but, if you joined the marines because you wanted to experience killing someone and not "for your country or any of that bull****" then you shouldn't be in the marines.





I think it's odd for one who has not signed on the line to be opining on why others chose to sign on the line....


The Good Reverend joined to kill people and blow things up.


I was already patriotic. :shrug:
 

ReverendHellh0und

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hmmm... I don't really know how to explain it to you without either sounding insulting, or coming off as a psycho. I will say that this is one of those things that you probably should be hesitant to make judgements on unless you have been there, and I would highly recommend to you On Killing by Col. Grossman. What VoodooChild is describing is actually a defensive mechanism. Marines are trained, taught, and impressed to want to kill the enemy because killing other human beings is generally an unnatural act for today's society. Without that deliberate training (and later, constant, encouragement), the act of killing can become psychologically destructive to the actor or (worse) he will probably refuse to do so, and be killed in turn. Before Marines kill, it is vitally important that they be primed and prepped to do so, and after they kill (so long as they are not out murdering innocents) it is vitally important that they be commended and rewarded.

On top of that, there is a strong sense of community. My boys just left to go over to Afghanistan last week. I know it's going to rip me up that I am not there with them when they start to take casualties; when Marines are in the fight, every other Marine wants to run to the sound of the guns and fight with them.




I don't recommend that book for mortals, its like the jimmy buffet song, mannana "Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it", this book lets mortals think they can do just that. ;)
 

roughdraft274

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I think it's odd for one who has not signed on the line to be opining on why others chose to sign on the line....


The Good Reverend joined to kill people and blow things up.


I was already patriotic. :shrug:

And when you joined up were you also thinking "I'm doing this Not for country or any of that bull****… but just cause I want to blow **** up."

It's fine if killing terrorists and blowing **** up gets you excited, I understand that. But would you call signing up for the marines out of love of country or out of pride of being an american bull****? Cause he just did.

Also, the idea that the military in general can't be criticized under any circumstances by anyone who hasn't served, or that it's odd that I even dare to give my opinion on a matter is retarded. It was stupid when people acted like this under Bush and it's still stupid under Obama. I love my country, I always wish the best for our military and hope they come home safe etc, but that doesn't mean that they're beyond criticism or in any way better than other Americans that chose to do something else.
 

roughdraft274

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hmmm... I don't really know how to explain it to you without either sounding insulting, or coming off as a psycho. I will say that this is one of those things that you probably should be hesitant to make judgements on unless you have been there, and I would highly recommend to you On Killing by Col. Grossman. What VoodooChild is describing is actually a defensive mechanism. Marines are trained, taught, and impressed to want to kill the enemy because killing other human beings is generally an unnatural act for today's society. Without that deliberate training (and later, constant, encouragement), the act of killing can become psychologically destructive to the actor or (worse) he will probably refuse to do so, and be killed in turn. Before Marines kill, it is vitally important that they be primed and prepped to do so, and after they kill (so long as they are not out murdering innocents) it is vitally important that they be commended and rewarded.

On top of that, there is a strong sense of community. My boys just left to go over to Afghanistan last week. I know it's going to rip me up that I am not there with them when they start to take casualties; when Marines are in the fight, every other Marine wants to run to the sound of the guns and fight with them.
I'm willing to bet that if I go to my grandfather or any of his old war buddies that served and said "you didn't fight for your country or any of that bull****, right? just cause you wanted to kill people, right?" that they would take offense to that entire notion.

I'm willing to bet that if John Kerry said during the 2004 campaign that he didn't sign up "for love of country or any of that bull****" that all the people in this thread would still be talking about how big of an ass he had made of himself.

I understand everything you said, and alot of it makes sense, you have to ingrain some of this into people to get them to be as they need to be in order to deal with combat. It's not pretty, I'm sure, but required.

But, if someone tells me that he signed up just to blow **** up and kill people, and it had nothing to do with love of country, wanting to protect his fellow Americans, etc. it makes me start to wonder if what he/she did was really all that noble in the first place simply cause of motive, which I don't even like admitting just cause of the sound of it, but I'm just being honest.

But in the end, I still don't believe that blowing stuff up and killing people is anywhere near the top of the list for most people that sign up.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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And when you joined up were you also thinking "I'm doing this Not for country or any of that bull****… but just cause I want to blow **** up."


Nah I was thinking if I got the job I wanted, (and I did), that I'd have all the fillies in my stable. (and I did). :pimpdaddy:


It's fine if killing terrorists and blowing **** up gets you excited, I understand that. But would you call signing up for the marines out of love of country or out of pride of being an american bull****? Cause he just did.


People sign up for many reasons, you wouldn't know. :shrug:


Also, the idea that the military in general can't be criticized under any circumstances by anyone who hasn't served, or that it's odd that I even dare to give my opinion on a matter is retarded. It was stupid when people acted like this under Bush and it's still stupid under Obama. I love my country, I always wish the best for our military and hope they come home safe etc, but that doesn't mean that they're beyond criticism or in any way better than other Americans that chose to do something else.

Strawman. Never claimed this. However there are certain perspectives that we can give you that you should listen to. No more than you could describe how it is to be in the band KISS could you describe military life and motivation of its members.

Critisize us all you want. Just make sure your claims are not coming from a position of ignorance.
 

Aunt Spiker

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After seeing this happening on this forum a couple of times I’m just going to speak my mind…

Several thousand men and women have died in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 9 years. **** sucks. May they rest in peace, and my condolences go out to their families. But what pisses me off about the whole thing (other than terrorist killing my fellow Americans) is how their deaths are used to justify ending a war.

Being a active duty Marine who is hoping to be able to hop on an upcoming afgan deployment, it’s nothing but a kick in the balls when I hear some little punk bitch collage kid crying about how we are sending marines and soldiers to their death. Shut up. Every Marine I know is wishing they were in Afghanistan getting shot at so they could kill a terrorist. Not for country or any of that bull****… But because they joined to see combat and they want to experience it. You go to an infantry barracks back at Lejeune and I want you to ask everyone there if they want to kill a terrorist. The answer will be yes. I want you to find me a Marine who doesn’t want to see a 500lb JDAM level an insurgent’s position. Or witness a couple LAVs firing their 25mm’s bringing death and destruction to the enemies of this nation. I’m coming up on 3 years now and I haven’t found one.

The fact of the matter is people who join, especially the infantry, want to see combat. For all of the marines that have died do you think they would be insulted to hear that some liberal punk, who doesn’t even know them, used there their death as a tool to somehow get others to feel sympathy for him and his buddies in the name of peace and harmony? F@#$ NO! Stop using the death of marines and soldiers to end a war.

There are reasons to stay and reasons to pullout. It’s debated all over the news, internet, and this very forum. But don’t throw around the deaths of Marines and Soldiers to better your argument of why we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If you truly respect those who have lost their lives, don’t do it…

Hooah! Yep! My husband joined because he wanted to fight. And fight he did.
He's been in for 18 years, now - with a break inbetween for a short while so he's actually been a soldier for going on 22 years.

He wanted blood, guts and all that juicy "only in the movies" action - and he got it - lots of it - even when our country wasn't at war.

You know what happened?

He handled **** while he was gone - but coming back? That proved harder. It almost always is. While on duty in Iraq a few years ago he was injured and taken out of the loop, came home, had several surgeries - years of therapy. He became an alcoholic, suffers from PTSD, went through several restart programs that are there to help soldiers through the worst of times.

Now he works as a recoup specialist. He went through the rehab program that he's in charge of. Now he helps people get their **** together after they've been deployed and rung through the ringer and then spit back out, all ****ed up.

He intervenes when Johny Come Lately has a gun to his wife's head.
He intervenes when Susan Ain't Saintly tries to kill her husband
He steps in when there are too many cooks in the kitchen and he helps douse the flames. He's strong when the marine, the engineer, the specialist is lost and needs help.

Being deployed in a war zone isn't a cakewalk. It's 24/7 of you being a walking target. No real sleep. No real safety. No real peace. No real quiet. No real time off. 24/7 Mortaritaville - 6 months, 12 months, 18 months. . . .a long freaking time. It's no fun and games and a lot of the best of the best have a hard time coping with the 'it feels like forever' factor - and don't manage to pull through with the smile that drove them there.

The PTSD and Shellshock doesn't go away when the tour is over. The psychological aftermath and destruction of war doesn't end when you step off the battlefield. It doesn't stop when you stop. It doesn't fade away when you fly back home. It's not a video game that can be defeated and the turned off. It stays with people for the rest of their lives.

They train you to go away but they can't train you to come back.

War duties are essential for the whole war complex, sure. And it's almost a necessary part in the maturing process of a soldier's overall development. So, join young, go to war, hooah, have a good one or two, then come back and that's when people like my husband will help you pick up the pieces when calm, casual, basic and stagnant civilian life is just too much to handle. When you can't readjust and you have your nightmares - people who've been there and done all that several times over, hooah hooah, they will help you out when you realize what war really is, what it takes from you, and what it doesn't give back.

You can't help but be excited, that's how you've been trained, and that's fine. But keep it in check, stay in touch with reality and never forget what really matters.
 
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roughdraft274

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People sign up for many reasons, you wouldn't know. :shrug:

Never claimed that I knew everyones reasons for signing up, I only gave my opinion on one particular reason.



Strawman. Never claimed this. However there are certain perspectives that we can give you that you should listen to. No more than you could describe how it is to be in the band KISS could you describe military life and motivation of its members.

Critisize us all you want. Just make sure your claims are not coming from a position of ignorance.
You never claimed that it was odd for me to give my opinion on this subject? Really? I understand that you never said that the military can't be criticised, I never made the claim that you did, I meant to just point out that that's a larger problem that I think what you said fits into, that it's odd that I even dare to give my opinion on something military related simply cause I didn't serve.

I probable couldn't give an accurate description on how it is to be in the band kiss, but I'm quite sure that if I were to say that Kiss started up their band cause they wanted fame and fortune and for love of music, you wouldn't have given me some condescending remark of how odd it is for me to opine on KISS since I've never been in the band.

All in all, my original point is that I don't think that many, maybe just a tiny percentage, of people sign up for the military sign up simply cause they want to blow **** up and kill people and that love of country "and all that bull****" has nothing to do with it. You can disagree with my point, and I may be wrong, but to act as though it's odd for me to even express my opinion is the debating equivalent of "you are rubber and I am glue."
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Never claimed that I knew everyones reasons for signing up, I only gave my opinion on one particular reason.


:shrug:



You never claimed that it was odd for me to give my opinion on this subject? Really? I understand that you never said that the military can't be criticised, I never made the claim that you did, I meant to just point out that that's a larger problem that I think what you said fits into, that it's odd that I even dare to give my opinion on something military related simply cause I didn't serve.


Your point here is lost in a failure to construct a coherent thought. Could you rephrase this so I am getting what you are actually stating here?


I probable couldn't give an accurate description on how it is to be in the band kiss, but I'm quite sure that if I were to say that Kiss started up their band cause they wanted fame and fortune and for love of music, you wouldn't have given me some condescending remark of how odd it is for me to opine on KISS since I've never been in the band.


What condescending remark has you all up in a wad?


All in all, my original point is that I don't think that many, maybe just a tiny percentage, of people sign up for the military sign up simply cause they want to blow **** up and kill people and that love of country "and all that bull****" has nothing to do with it. You can disagree with my point, and I may be wrong, but to act as though it's odd for me to even express my opinion is the debating equivalent of "you are rubber and I am glue."


I gave my opinion and it wasn't this, so again, I don't really get what your point is at this juncture.
 

roughdraft274

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roughdraft274 said:
All in all, my original point is that I don't think that many, maybe just a tiny percentage, of people sign up for the military sign up simply cause they want to blow **** up and kill people and that love of country "and all that bull****" has nothing to do with it. You can disagree with my point, and I may be wrong, but to act as though it's odd for me to even express my opinion is the debating equivalent of "you are rubber and I am glue."

I gave my opinion and it wasn't this, so again, I don't really get what your point is at this juncture.

In your very first post you said "I think it's odd for one who has not signed on the line to be opining on why others chose to sign on the line.... ".

If you're going to act like you never said it or act as though you can't wrap your head around the rather simple point I'm making then I think I'd rather be in other threads where people remember what they said and don't act is if everyone person who responds to their posts are getting in a "wad".
 

ReverendHellh0und

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In your very first post you said "I think it's odd for one who has not signed on the line to be opining on why others chose to sign on the line.... ".

If you're going to act like you never said it or act as though you can't wrap your head around the rather simple point I'm making then I think I'd rather be in other threads where people remember what they said and don't act is if everyone person who responds to their posts are getting in a "wad".



Oh that. Well that I stand by. I do find it odd you telling us why we chose to sign on the line. Just as Kiss would tell you its odd if you told them why they chose to donn the makeup. :shrug:
 

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If what I'm getting from your post is true and our marines just joined to kill people and see combat and not because they love their country and want to serve and help they're country and help keep america safe (which I don't think is true at all) then we are in more trouble than I ever thought.

I'm trying to figure out a more respectful way to put this but I'm coming up short, but, if you joined the marines because you wanted to experience killing someone and not "for your country or any of that bull****" then you shouldn't be in the marines.

Its not an easy view to articulate or express. But, he is pretty much on the money. I joined an UK infantry unit who served in NI/Gulf 91 and Bosnia and can add it was what i like to term 'a purple patch' by that i mean pretty damn awesome.
Deployment was the ultimate privilege and you were pretty pissed to be passed by with another unit going instead. Too experience combat is like nothing else, the down side is the rest of your life feels somewhat like a never ending anti climax. Even now [i left 13yrs ago] i still get hairs on my neck 'stand on end' thats just from reading about present exploits and talking to serving members. The only thing that stopped me going back for 'another crack' was my wife and kids.

Paul
 

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After seeing this happening on this forum a couple of times I’m just going to speak my mind…

Several thousand men and women have died in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 9 years. **** sucks. May they rest in peace, and my condolences go out to their families. But what pisses me off about the whole thing (other than terrorist killing my fellow Americans) is how their deaths are used to justify ending a war.

Being a active duty Marine who is hoping to be able to hop on an upcoming afgan deployment, it’s nothing but a kick in the balls when I hear some little punk bitch collage kid crying about how we are sending marines and soldiers to their death. Shut up. Every Marine I know is wishing they were in Afghanistan getting shot at so they could kill a terrorist. Not for country or any of that bull****… But because they joined to see combat and they want to experience it. You go to an infantry barracks back at Lejeune and I want you to ask everyone there if they want to kill a terrorist. The answer will be yes. I want you to find me a Marine who doesn’t want to see a 500lb JDAM level an insurgent’s position. Or witness a couple LAVs firing their 25mm’s bringing death and destruction to the enemies of this nation. I’m coming up on 3 years now and I haven’t found one.

The fact of the matter is people who join, especially the infantry, want to see combat. For all of the marines that have died do you think they would be insulted to hear that some liberal punk, who doesn’t even know them, used there their death as a tool to somehow get others to feel sympathy for him and his buddies in the name of peace and harmony? F@#$ NO! Stop using the death of marines and soldiers to end a war.

There are reasons to stay and reasons to pullout. It’s debated all over the news, internet, and this very forum. But don’t throw around the deaths of Marines and Soldiers to better your argument of why we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If you truly respect those who have lost their lives, don’t do it…

Well, the army must be a helluva lot different than the Marines, because I know plenty of soldiers who don't want to go to Afghanistan and who don't want to kill a "terrorist" (or anybody else).

They know what their job entails, and they're willing to do what they have to do, but it's not like they're chomping at the bit for a damn deployment.

I also know soldiers who believe we shouldn't be in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You can't lump everybody into the same category; even military personnel are individuals and have their own thoughts and opinions, on the war and on everything else.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Talk is cheap. With talk anyone can say anything. Anything to fit in, seem cool, rugged, cut out and chiseled. Men have been doing it for centuries.

I know it's not really that way. Marine, Air Force, Army, Reserve - everyone's human. Everyone feels and everyone fears. And an unbelievable number of guys go Awol when they don't want it to show. My husband has to track them down and talk them out of the bottle all the time.

"I'm not afraid" . . . I say bull****.
"I can't wait!" . . . I say bull****.

It's easy to get worked up thinking it's going to be a party - hot time in the litter box - easy street - boats n hoes. But it ****ing sucks and all too often guys really just have to go and find out for their selves that this is the fact.

Now - per the actual OP - using deaths of the fallen in debate. I say it's fair game. I can debate the possible future fate of my husband all I pretty well please because it's not just about him getting his face taken off in a blast. It's about our children, our family. He always tells me "I'm not worried, you'll be fine, I'm worth 2million dead" - is that so? As if money is the glue holding us together? If he dies, hooah? Then what? The rest of our lives without a father, role model and family leader. I think that's pretty damn ****ty. Yep, I'll use that reality in a debate any day if it will get one tool to realize that soldiers are human and their lives do matter.

Don't fool yourself, Voodoo, it's a serious, dangerous theater out there.
 
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apdst

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You have no right to pretend that you speak for every marine. Like any group of people, everyone in the Marines have their own reasons for what they do. You expose your hypocrisy for committing the same sin you denounce others for.

Your error is, VoodooChild is a serving member of the military. His opinion counts more than your's, unless, of course, you are a serving member of the United States military. Are you?
 

apdst

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And when you joined up were you also thinking "I'm doing this Not for country or any of that bull****… but just cause I want to blow **** up."

It's fine if killing terrorists and blowing **** up gets you excited, I understand that. But would you call signing up for the marines out of love of country or out of pride of being an american bull****? Cause he just did.

Also, the idea that the military in general can't be criticized under any circumstances by anyone who hasn't served, or that it's odd that I even dare to give my opinion on a matter is retarded. It was stupid when people acted like this under Bush and it's still stupid under Obama. I love my country, I always wish the best for our military and hope they come home safe etc, but that doesn't mean that they're beyond criticism or in any way better than other Americans that chose to do something else.

I was thinking, "I want to do my duty to my country...and blow **** up". It's why I joined the infantry, to blow **** up. The Green Machine did not let me down. Hooah?!?

It's fine if killing terrorists and blowing **** up gets you excited, I understand that. But would you call signing up for the marines out of love of country or out of pride of being an american bull****? Cause he just did.

Anyone, in the military, has more moral authority than anyone who isn't in the military, to explain why they decided to serve their country. That's his right. He earned it when he took up arms to serve this great nation of ours. No one in, or out, of uniform has the right to tell him he's wrong.
 

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They train you to go away but they can't train you to come back.

You can't help but be excited, that's how you've been trained, and that's fine. But keep it in check, stay in touch with reality and never forget what really matters.

This is the ugly downside of getting all Gung Ho for combat and then not being trained how to throttle it back. The military "could" do a much better job at this. They just choose not to.

Kudos to your hubby for turning his situation around. From what I read, more and more are not able to make that adjustment back into civilian life. I believe the suicide and domestic violence rates are the highest they've ever been. It's a damn shame.
 
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