US warns Nicarguans that it's only democracy when we say so (1 Viewer)

[LeftyHenry]

The US has basically stated that if Nicaraguans chose the frontrunner Mr. Ortega who was elected twice in the 1980's that they will embargo Nicaragua.


US warns Nicaraguans not to back Sandinista

By Adam Thomson in Managua
Published: September 15 2006 03:00 | Last updated: September 15 2006 03:00
The US ambassador to Nicaragua has issued a vigorous warning to this smallCentral American country's electors against supporting Daniel Ortega, the veteran leftwing Sandinista leader and the frontrunner in November's presidential election.

In a frank interview with the FT, Paul Trivelli said Mr Ortega was "undemocratic" and would roll back much of the advances made in recent years. And, underlining the concern felt in Washington about the regional influence of President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, the ambassador said he had no doubt that Venezuela was playing an important role in the election.

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"It's one thing to be truly democratic. It's another thing to do what the Sandinistas really have done, which is to distort and manipulate democracy for partisan and personal benefit," Mr Trivelli said. "The fact that [Mr Ortega] has been in charge of the Sandinista movement for 25 years or more gives you a clue about his democratic tendencies."

The ambassador said that an Ortega victory - while vague on many issues, the 60-year-old former rebel leader has talked of increasing the role of the state and renegotiating Cafta, the trade agreement between the US and Central America - would force Washington to "re-evaluate" relations.

"He has made it pretty clear what kind of model he would put in place. And I think that under those conditions . . . [bilateral relations] would definitely be re-examined - and not only by the executive or the State Department or the White House but by the US Congress."

The US has had a long and - in many cases - unfortunate history in Nicaragua. During the 1980s it earned international criticism for its illegal funding of the so-called Contra war against Mr Ortega's democratically elected administration....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/b6eafab4-4456-11db-8965-0000779e2340.html

 

[TurtleDude]

ain't it great to have the power to back up the threats:mrgreen:

Ortega is scum-face it

 

[TheNextEra]

ain't it great to have the power to back up the threats:mrgreen:

Ortega is scum-face it

Why doesn't the Bush Administration just admit to the world what it really means. The Bush Administration wants to rule the world.

 

[TurtleDude]

Why doesn't the Bush Administration just admit to the world what it really means. The Bush Administration wants to rule the world.

I think Bush wants to proactively deal with problems that can interfere with American interests. We can debate whether his attempts to achieve those goals are correctly executed. Saying he wants to rule the world appears to be unfounded drama queen nonsense IMHO

 

[TheNextEra]

Saying he wants to rule the world appears to be unfounded drama queen nonsense IMHO

Not really, He seems to want U.S. policy to dominate the world.

Remember it's ok for the U.S. to support a nation, but not anyone else if that nation is against the U.S.

 

[TurtleDude]

Not really, He seems to want U.S. policy to dominate the world.

Remember it's ok for the U.S. to support a nation, but not anyone else if that nation is against the U.S.

and there is a problem with this. I admit it-I worry what's best for the USA. sometimes that means we have to do one thing, sometimes another. sometimes its not obvious. but if US best interests may be deleterious to another nation, I don't lose any sleep over it

 

[TheNextEra]

and there is a problem with this. I admit it-I worry what's best for the USA. sometimes that means we have to do one thing, sometimes another. sometimes its not obvious. but if US best interests may be deleterious to another nation, I don't lose any sleep over it

Then stop delusioning yourself, you agree with the U.s. making policy for the world. so just admit you want the U.S. to rule the world.

 

[GarzaUK]

This is one of the hypocriscies of not only the Bush Administration but American foreign policy as a whole. (The UK is guilty of it as well.)

America only wants democracy in foreign countries that our pro-American. In fact America would rather have pro-American despots, much easier to handle. America especially freaks out if an anti-American government (democracy or not) springs up in the Americas - considered to be America's zone of influence. Venezula and Cuba are such examples. The US overthrew a democratically elected government in Chile and replaced it with a pro-american dictator. The Cold war came to a end over a decade yet Cuba still has a trade embargo over her! WTF?

IT's worth noting that Venezula has NOT had a trade embargo over her from the US, because of a three letter word - oil.

Meh! Don't feel so bad about American government hypocriscy, most governments are the same.

 

[TurtleDude]

Then stop delusioning yourself, you agree with the U.s. making policy for the world. so just admit you want the U.S. to rule the world.

just admit you have no frgn clue what I wrote above. There are plenty of nations that don't create a threat or a problem for the USA. I don't see us having anything to do with Finland for example or other nations not within our sphere of influence.

Face it and stop delusioning yourself-you agree that America is bad and you want to subordinate her interests to that of some "international community" which is at best, ambivalent towards us

 

[Gill]

Meh! Don't feel so bad about American government hypocriscy, most governments are the same.

This is about the only sensible sentence I've read in this thread, except it should say ALL governments are the same.

Nothing to see here.......move along.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The US has basically stated that if Nicaraguans chose the frontrunner Mr. Ortega who was elected twice in the 1980's that they will embargo Nicaragua.


US warns Nicaraguans not to back Sandinista

By Adam Thomson in Managua
Published: September 15 2006 03:00 | Last updated: September 15 2006 03:00
The US ambassador to Nicaragua has issued a vigorous warning to this smallCentral American country's electors against supporting Daniel Ortega, the veteran leftwing Sandinista leader and the frontrunner in November's presidential election.

In a frank interview with the FT, Paul Trivelli said Mr Ortega was "undemocratic" and would roll back much of the advances made in recent years. And, underlining the concern felt in Washington about the regional influence of President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, the ambassador said he had no doubt that Venezuela was playing an important role in the election.

ADVERTISEMENT
"It's one thing to be truly democratic. It's another thing to do what the Sandinistas really have done, which is to distort and manipulate democracy for partisan and personal benefit," Mr Trivelli said. "The fact that [Mr Ortega] has been in charge of the Sandinista movement for 25 years or more gives you a clue about his democratic tendencies."

The ambassador said that an Ortega victory - while vague on many issues, the 60-year-old former rebel leader has talked of increasing the role of the state and renegotiating Cafta, the trade agreement between the US and Central America - would force Washington to "re-evaluate" relations.

"He has made it pretty clear what kind of model he would put in place. And I think that under those conditions . . . [bilateral relations] would definitely be re-examined - and not only by the executive or the State Department or the White House but by the US Congress."

The US has had a long and - in many cases - unfortunate history in Nicaragua. During the 1980s it earned international criticism for its illegal funding of the so-called Contra war against Mr Ortega's democratically elected administration....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/b6eafab4-4456-11db-8965-0000779e2340.html

lol you support the genocidal Sandinista regime?

 

[TheNextEra]

lol you support the genocidal Sandinista regime?

Do you buy products from China? Then you are supporting the human rights violations that China does.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The US overthrew a democratically elected government in Chile and replaced it with a pro-american dictator.

The U.S. may have funded political opposition groups within Chile but their is absolutely no evidence that we funded or supplied the Coup plotters; furthermore, Pinochet was ordered by the Chamber of Deputy's to forcably remove Allende.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Do you buy products from China? Then you are supporting the human rights violations that China does.

Free Trade and Open Markets are the harbingers of Democracy ie Capitalism won the Cold War so by buying Chinese products I am actually supporting Democratic reform in China.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Why doesn't the Bush Administration just admit to the world what it really means. The Bush Administration wants to rule the world.

Excellent mwuhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahah....................mwuhahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Synch]

Do you buy products from China? Then you are supporting the human rights violations that China does.

Humans rights are a priority, but most people are not irrational enough to screw themselves over over human rights.

The cost of embargoing Nicaragua is minute, while we would be devastated ourselves if we stopped trading with China.

Human rights are important, but more people will not have the benefit of the US if we were to stop trading with China right now, for both our economies would collapse. Millions of Chinese would be out of jobs, living standards in the US would plummet, stock prices fall.

 

[Synch]

Then stop delusioning yourself, you agree with the U.s. making policy for the world. so just admit you want the U.S. to rule the world.

I wonder, are you serious or just indirectly attacking him?

 

[TurtleDude]

I wonder, are you serious or just indirectly attacking him?

I think he failed on both counts:mrgreen:

I have no problem admitting I am an America first person. the only issue is how to accomplish that

 

[LeftyHenry]

lol you support the genocidal Sandinista regime?

lol you support genocidal Israel and rascist America? :roll:

Wtf are you talking about? The FSLN brought free elections, democracy, and social justice to Nicargua for the first time ever. Of course the US could have none of that and they funded terrorist contras.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

lol you support genocidal Israel and rascist America? :roll:

Israel does not commit genocide and people in America are guaranteed equality under the 14th amendment.

Wtf are you talking about? The FSLN brought free elections, democracy, and social justice to Nicargua for the first time ever. Of course the US could have none of that and they funded terrorist contras.

Forced relocation and genocide of thousands of Misqitos? Is that your idea of social justice?

 

[LeftyHenry]

Free Trade and Open Markets are the harbingers of Democracy ie Capitalism won the Cold War so by buying Chinese products I am actually supporting Democratic reform in China.

Bullshit! Democracy is a political system. Capitalism is economic. Your dumass proved yourself wrong in the same paragraph. China is both Capitalist and undemocratic. Chile under Pinochet was Capitalist and totalitarian. Cuba under Batista was both Capitalist, and totalitarian. Mexico is both capitalist, and undemocratic. The list goes on and on...

 

[TurtleDude]

Bullshit! Democracy is a political system. Capitalism is economic. Your dumass proved yourself wrong in the same paragraph. China is both Capitalist and undemocratic. Chile under Pinochet was Capitalist and totalitarian. Cuba under Batista was both Capitalist, and totalitarian. Mexico is both capitalist, and undemocratic. The list goes on and on...

and communism is still a scourge and ought to be eradicated wherever encountered. communism has a body count that nears 100 million

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Bullshit! Democracy is a political system. Capitalism is economic. Your dumass proved yourself wrong in the same paragraph.

So are you saying that the Soviet Union didn't convert to Democracy because of the influences of capitalism?

China is both Capitalist and undemocratic.

No they are Communist with trace amounts of capitalism which is tightly regulated by the state.

Chile under Pinochet was Capitalist and totalitarian.

And now they're free and Democratic.

Cuba under Batista was both Capitalist, and totalitarian.

And would have become Democratic if not for the rise of Castro ever Latin American country is now free except for Cuba.

Mexico is both capitalist, and undemocratic.

Actually they were undemoratic under their socialist one party state now they are totally free.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Israel does not commit genocide and people in America are guaranteed equality under the 14th amendment.

Israel targets Lebanese and Palenstinian civilian women and Children. Have you heard of that little incident in Qana?

Forced relocation and genocide of thousands of Misqitos? Is that your idea of social justice?

Electricity, clothing, food, shelter, and healthcare for the working class. That's what I call social justice. Especially in the face of US supported terrorists who tried to bomb every acheivement the sandinistas made. There was no genocide of the Miskitos. That is upsurd. The Sandinistas were harsh on the Miskitos, however they became the first Latin American coutntry/government to recognize their indigenous people and give them equal linguistic, economic, cultural, civil, and religious rights.

Besides, look at how wonderfully America treated it's Native people.

This is what the Sandinistas came inherited when they came to power

The Sandinistas inherited a country in ruins with a debt of 1.6 billion dollars (US), an estimated 50,000 war dead, 600,000 homeless, and a devastated economic infrastructure.

and with the help of cuba they achieved this...

Cuba was instrumental in the Nicaraguan Literacy Campaign. Nicaragua was a country with a very high rate of illiteracy, but the campaign succeeded in lowering the rate from 50% to 12%. This was a huge campaign to take on but it succeeded with the help of Cuba. Cuba not only served as a model for Nicaragua but also provided technical assistance and advice to Nicaragua. The Nicaraguan Literacy Campaign was one of the success stories of the Sandinistas' reign and Cuba played an important part in this; Cuba provided teachers on yearly basis after the revolution. Prevost states that “Teachers were not the only ones studying in Cuba, about 2,000 primary and secondary students were studying on the Isle of Youth and the cost was covered by the host country (Cuba)” (Prevost, 126).
Critics of the campaign contend that this effort was thinly disguised communist indoctrination, and point to the fact that elementary school books taught basic mathematics with illustrations of hand grenades. The suppression of catholic schools, and the introduction of foreigners in a lead role in this effort caused resentment among the campesino population.
[edit]
Healthcare
Healthcare was another area where the Sandinistas made incredible gains and are widely recognized for this accomplishment. In this area Cuba also played a role by again offering expertise and know-how to Nicaragua. According to Prevost, over 1,500 Cuban doctors worked in Nicaragua and provided more than five million consultations. Also Cuban personnel have been essential in the elimination of polio, decrease in measles and lowering the infant morality rate. Prevost also states that Cuban personnel have made it possible for Nicaragua to have a truly national healthcare system reaching a majority of its citizens. (Prevost 127)
[edit]
Vocational assistance
Cuba has participated in the training of Nicaraguan workers in the use of new machinery imported to Nicaragua. The Nicaraguan revolution put the country’s government on the United States' black book; therefore the Sandinistas would not received any aid from the United States or even other Western countries. There was also a trade embargo imposed by the United States in May of 1985 which made it impossible for Nicaragua to receive spare parts for American-made machines, so this led Nicaragua to look to other socialist countries for help. Cuba was the best choice because of the language and proximity and also it had imported such machinery over the years. Nicaraguans would come to Cuba for short periods of 3 to 6 months and this training closely involved close to 3,000 workers (Prevost, 128).
[edit]
Industry building
Cuba has helped Nicaragua in huge projects such as building roads, railway, power plants and sugar mills. Cuba helped Nicaragua build the first overland route linking Nicaragua’s Atlantic and Pacific coasts in order to expedite the flow of the $1 Billion in Soviet military aid used to enable the FSLNs iron fisted rule. The road crossed 260 miles of jungle although full completion of the road and usage was hindered by the Contra war. Another significant feat was the building of the Tipitapa-Malacatoya sugar mill. It was completed and inaugurated during a visit by Fidel Castro in January of 1985. The plant used the newest technology available and was built by workers trained in Cuba. Also during this visit Castro announced that all debts incurred on this project were absolved (Prevost, 127). Cuba also provided numerous technicians to aid in the sugar harvest and assist in the rejuvenation of several old sugar mills. Cubans also assisted in building schools and other projects that would ensure the survival of the Nicaraguan revolutionary government.

Link

Sandinistas were the best thing to happen to Nicargua. The Nicaraguan people have finally now recognized that.

 

[LeftyHenry]

So are you saying that the Soviet Union didn't convert to Democracy because of the influences of capitalism?

Russia isn't Democratic. You're very own freedomhouse proves it. It's another perfect example of capitalist dictatorships.

No they are Communist with trace amounts of capitalism which is tightly regulated by the state.

LOL since when do communists make multi-billion dollar deals with major corporations to pay their workers slave wages? Since when do communist countries have classes? China was never communist, and has been capitalist since Deng.

And now they're free and Democratic.

They were before. The US didn't like who was elected so they supported pinochet.

And would have become Democratic if not for the rise of Castro ever Latin American country is now free except for Cuba.

It does have strong democratic roots in the CDRs and People's Power.

Actually they were undemoratic under their socialist one party state now they are totally free.

LOL typical neo-con bullshit. "it's not democracy unless we agree with it". Mexico is NOT democratic. This election has proved it with the massive voting fraud and stuffed ballot boxes.

Mexico wasn't a one party state under the PRI. And the PRI are not socialist but liberal reformists.