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US vs Russia

Do you want the US to directly intervene in Ukraine even if it leads to a nuclear conflict?


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grip

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Putin ain't getting the message that the world isn't happy with him. And he seems even more determined to take over Ukraine. It's becoming a staring down match between the West/Europe to see who blinks first.
 

Bok_Tukalo

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Nuclear conflict is bad, okay?

On a side note, this is why Iran wants to have nukes. It completely changes the strategic dynamic in the Middle East and circumscribes Saudi, Israeli, and US actions.
 

Rexedgar

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What will it take until the West has used all the arrows in the quiver short of troops/flights into Ukraine?

Not sure that I understand the reporte restraint at this stage.
 

Lutherf

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Putin ain't getting the message that the world isn't happy with him. And he seems even more determined to take over Ukraine. It's becoming a staring down match between the West/Europe to see who blinks first.
The world doesn't give a flying **** about Putin or Ukraine. They love the TV coverage and the opportunities for various politicians and pundits to go on camera and flap their lips but NO NATION is stepping up to offer Ukraine anything more than token assistance. If Putin walks into Kiev next Tuesday he'll still be on the UN security council and Biden will still be buying oil from him. A few weeks later sanctions will be eased for humanitarian reasons and a few months later Ukraine will be recognized as Russian territory, though not officially. The Ukrainian dead will be no more remembered than their ancestors in the 1930s are. Such is the glory of the new world order
 

Common Sense 1

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Well no don't want to see that but each day people are being slaughtered.
Do we wait till Russia attacks a NATO nation? Maybe nations in the area can supply
on the ground forces. We could supply more advanced tech warfare equipment.
Cruse missiles, drones, Cyber.

Ukraine is a target rich environment. 40 mile long of tanks and other vehicles lined up just waiting
to be destroyed. If Russia gets away with this........

Whatever happens there is no good alternative!!
 

phoenix2020

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The world doesn't give a flying **** about Putin or Ukraine. They love the TV coverage and the opportunities for various politicians and pundits to go on camera and flap their lips but NO NATION is stepping up to offer Ukraine anything more than token assistance. If Putin walks into Kiev next Tuesday he'll still be on the UN security council and Biden will still be buying oil from him. A few weeks later sanctions will be eased for humanitarian reasons and a few months later Ukraine will be recognized as Russian territory, though not officially. The Ukrainian dead will be no more remembered than their ancestors in the 1930s are. Such is the glory of the new world order
I hate this reality but you are completely correct. At the end of the day, nobody believes Ukraine is important to merit global conflict, and enough nations are firmly with Russia (particularly, China) that the arrows in our quiver aren't all that effective anyway.
 

Phys251

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Putin ain't getting the message that the world isn't happy with him. And he seems even more determined to take over Ukraine. It's becoming a staring down match between the West/Europe to see who blinks first.

This war is young. Let's see what happens to Putin when the Russian economy collapses, which it just might.
 

Tlrmln

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Putin ain't getting the message that the world isn't happy with him. And he seems even more determined to take over Ukraine. It's becoming a staring down match between the West/Europe to see who blinks first.

I don't understand the question or the answers.

When you say "let's take a chance," do you mean let's take a chance that he will use nukes (even though the question seems ask us to assume he will), or do you mean let's take a chance that we'll survive WHEN he uses nukes (as the question implies he will)?
 

rickc

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Putin is a rich man living a fabulous lifestyle. He has much to live for.

Do you really think he is suicidal?

We have fought the Russians for decades in these proxy wars without out going nuclear. Just because this one is on Russia' border does it really make a difference?
 

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Aw, it's sad and ****ed up for sure. Especially coming off a pandemic. Ugh, reliving history is a bear.

There was bound to be WW3, Putin isn't going to stand down, and so we should be preparing to go in. I don't think he will nuke anything, but never say never. The whole world is watching, it's not like we can just be done with it like the new reality show of the week.

If he's going to use nukes, he will on Ukraine. So, I doubt there's a choice here. He's an old man with illness, and he obviously knows by now, how he distances himself for others, that there are several notes on his head. Hopefully he just gets assassinated.
 
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Even if conflict, why does it automatically lead to nuclear conflict? It would be moronic for either side to destroy the world by launching any
 

rickc

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Aw, it's sad and ****ed up for sure. Especially coming off a pandemic. Ugh, reliving history is a bear.

There was bound to be WW3, Putin isn't going to stand down, and so we should be preparing to go in. I don't think he will nuke anything, but never say never. The whole world is watching, it's not like we can just be done with it like the new reality show of the week.

If he's going to use nukes, he will on Ukraine. So, I doubt there's a choice here. He's an old man with illness, and he obviously knows by now, how he distances himself for others, that there are several notes on his head. Hopefully he just gets assassinated.

Why would he want to contaminate territory he wants to assimilate with radiation. Conventional weapons are doing the job. Mabe a little slower but just as effective.
 

Peter

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Are you prepared for half the country to be on fire as the result of WW3?
I think some of you here are oblivious of just how many would die in such an event.
Being the last person alive on a dead world is not winning.
 

rickc

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Are you prepared for half the country to be on fire as the result of WW3?
I think some of you here are oblivious of just how many would die in such an event.
Being the last person alive on a dead world is not winning.

Do you believe Putin is?
 

BirdinHand

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I feel bad for the people of Ukraine.

I support sanctions, I support providing them arms.

But at the end of the day, the United States does not have a military alliance/defense pact with them via NATO or elsewise.

This isn’t our war to fight and I do not want war with Russia.

Nuclear weapons changes the entire “game”. At some point, American security takes precedence - and that point is not actively engaging Russia unless Russia violates a country we have an alliance via NATO with.

Evacuate Ukrainians, sanction Russia, supply Ukrainian forces with weapons.
 

Ginger Ale

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Why would he want to contaminate territory he wants to assimilate with radiation. Conventional weapons are doing the job. Mabe a little slower but just as effective.
Good point, but didn't he just bomb a nuclear plant? It was a lucky miss of a reactor but I see that tragedy coming. That's what I mean, I just think we will be seeing some radiation at some point over there.
 

rickc

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Good point, but didn't he just bomb a nuclear plant? It was a lucky miss of a reactor but I see that tragedy coming. That's what I mean, I just think we will be seeing some radiation at some point over there.

All the more reason to put a stop to it!
 

Ginger Ale

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All the more reason to put a stop to it!
Yeah, I know sensibly, we are doing what we can but emotionally you can't help wanting them to swoop in and take that dooshbag out.

I heard they've opened the doors to anyone, from anywhere, who want to help them fight. I thought, hm.....I wonder if anyone has taken them up on that?
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Aw, it's sad and ****ed up for sure. Especially coming off a pandemic. Ugh, reliving history is a bear.

There was bound to be WW3, Putin isn't going to stand down, and so we should be preparing to go in. I don't think he will nuke anything, but never say never. The whole world is watching, it's not like we can just be done with it like the new reality show of the week.

If he's going to use nukes, he will on Ukraine. So, I doubt there's a choice here. He's an old man with illness, and he obviously knows by now, how he distances himself for others, that there are several notes on his head. Hopefully he just gets assassinated.
Any direct confrontation in Ukraine will lead to a wider war, a wider war will likely end up with the use of nuclear weapons

Let’s say a no fly zone is attempted. A few nato planes get shot down by S400 systems based on Russia. Then NATO attacks those S400 systems in Russia. Russia responds by launching cruise missiles at NATO bases in Western Europe ( Air Force bases). That mobilizes NATO with the intent to remove Putin from power. Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons to hit NATO military forces which are far higher in quality and in number.

That will require a nuclear response from the US, UK or France, and Russia will respond as well. End of life as we know it

Providing weapons to Ukraine and no direct military support is very unlikely to lead to nuclear weapons. Direct military support will
 

reinaert

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What will it take until the West has used all the arrows in the quiver short of troops/flights into Ukraine?

Not sure that I understand the reporte restraint at this stage.
Lend-Lease is an option.
 

reinaert

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Even if conflict, why does it automatically lead to nuclear conflict? It would be moronic for either side to destroy the world by launching any
Why, as in, why does everyone say that's what will happen?
 

Jkca1

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The chances of nuclear war are ZERO and I am taking all bets. Do I have any takers? You get 365 days from today for a war to destroy us all. If not, pay up. ;)
 

rickc

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Why, as in, why does everyone say that's what will happen?

Putin is no more suicidal than we are.

He is just a bully. Every time he pushes we back up.

His military budget is 60 billion and we spend close to a trillion on ours. Add in all the rest of the world's military allign against him. He doesn't have a chance and knows it.
 

reinaert

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Putin is no more suicidal than we are.

He is just a bully. Every time he pushes we back up.

His military budget is 60 billion and we spend close to a trillion on ours. Add in all the rest of the world's military allign against him. He doesn't have a chance and knows it.
Are you hinting that it should be okay to roll the nuclear dice and risk the only place we're sure intelligent life (crows, elephants, dogs, that one owl who stole my lunch, otters...) exists?
 
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