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US Urges Beijing to Cease Its Military Coercion (Barrage) Against Taiwan - Is This an 'Act of War' Against Taiwan by Beijing?

ouch

Holy Hardcore
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It's clear what's taking place over Taiwan. This activity in Taiwan's air space is increasing. By all rights, isn't this an act of war and eventually, if not very soon, should Taiwan try to peacefully guide one or two of China's fighter jets to land (doubt said fighter jets would cooperate) or simply down one or two of those fighter jets? Is this too irrational and dangerous to attempt? Will it spark war between Taiwan and China? While on that subject, isn't that the intentions of Beijing too have a physical war with Taiwan by this time?



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"The United States is very concerned by... China's provocative military activity near Taiwan, which is destabilizing, risks miscalculations and undermines regional peace and stability," the US state department said.

"We urge Beijing to cease its military, diplomatic and economic pressure and coercion against Taiwan."

On Saturday, a total of 39 Chinese military jets flew into the same area in two waves during the day and evening. It was the largest incursion by Beijing to date.

On Friday, four H-6 bombers, which can carry nuclear weapons, and an anti-submarine aircraft were among the 38 that flew in two waves over the course of the day.
 

TheParser

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The United States is "concerned."

The United States "urges."

Whoa!

Those dyed-hair tyrants must be shaking in their boots at such tough talk.

If we had a real President and a real Congress, China would be told in private (so that they do not lose face) to stop it, or the United States would take vigorous action, such as recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation.

Bullies -- whether they be nations or common predators that prowl our city streets 24/7 -- understand only one thing: the iron fist.
 

ouch

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The United States is "concerned."

The United States "urges."

Whoa!

Those dyed-hair tyrants must be shaking in their boots at such tough talk.

If we had a real President and a real Congress, China would be told in private (so that they do not lose face) to stop it, or the United States would take vigorous action, such as recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation.

Bullies -- whether they be nations or common predators that prowl our city streets 24/7 -- understand only one thing: the iron fist.
There's a chance that it's already been discussed with Beijing and such news that I've snatched up could be 48 hours old and just hitting the news agencies for print concerning this coercive barrage of aircraft poking at Taiwan. Or not.
 

Questerr

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The United States is "concerned."

The United States "urges."

Whoa!

Those dyed-hair tyrants must be shaking in their boots at such tough talk.

If we had a real President and a real Congress, China would be told in private (so that they do not lose face) to stop it, or the United States would take vigorous action, such as recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation.

Bullies -- whether they be nations or common predators that prowl our city streets 24/7 -- understand only one thing: the iron fist.

So you want to provoke a shooting war with a nuclear power?
 

TheParser

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So you want to provoke a shooting war with a nuclear power?
Sadly, the United States has to draw the line somewhere.

I can understand that some people feel that Taiwan is not worth it.

I believe that the U.S. and the USSR almost came to blows over Russian missiles in Cuba. Fortunately, the two superpowers both compromised in order to prevent war.

I do not think that China wants war. Yes, it could destroy the U.S. But it knows that China would not only be destroyed in return but also freed from Communist tyranny.

We little people can only hope that the Chinese & Americans are having secret talks about this Taiwan matter. (Japan, I hear, is deeply "concerned" about China's bullying of Taiwan.)
 

Questerr

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Sadly, the United States has to draw the line somewhere.

I can understand that some people feel that Taiwan is not worth it.

I believe that the U.S. and the USSR almost came to blows over Russian missiles in Cuba. Fortunately, the two superpowers both compromised in order to prevent war.

I do not think that China wants war. Yes, it could destroy the U.S. But it knows that China would not only be destroyed in return but also freed from Communist tyranny.

We little people can only hope that the Chinese & Americans are having secret talks about this Taiwan matter. (Japan, I hear, is deeply "concerned" about China's bullying of Taiwan.)

Explain how Taiwan is at all comparable to the Cuban missile crisis.
 

TheParser

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Explain how Taiwan is at all comparable to the Cuban missile crisis.
It is not.

That is why many (most?) Americans may be ready to sacrifice Taiwan to the wolves.

I hope that the United States can somehow find a way to persuade China to lay off Taiwan.

Maybe some official in the Dem administration (certainly not that silly little Secretary of State) can find a way.
 

Questerr

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It is not.

That is why many (most?) Americans may be ready to sacrifice Taiwan to the wolves.

I hope that the United States can somehow find a way to persuade China to lay off Taiwan.

Maybe some official in the Dem administration (certainly not that silly little Secretary of State) can find a way.

But you want the US to provoke a war over an island that you can't even explain why its significant enough to provoke a war over?
 

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So far, there's 4 of us males have made it to this thread. So far, I'm the only male that has highly suggested that this is an act of war by Beijing against Taiwan. Gentlemen, whilst your interesting debating continues on, would you also add your thoughts, iyo, if this is or isn't an act of war by Beijing against Taiwan. Greatly appreciated in advance.
 

Loulit01

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I don't know. Do the Taiwanese say it's an act of war? I defer to their government's position. I mean, because it's their country and everything.

The Chinese are having an energy crise. Their economy is in big trouble. Taking Taiwan, with all its wealth, manufacturing capabilities and so on, would give China a big boost. I think China is trying to provoke Taiwan into doing something stupid, like shooting at those aircraft, so that China has an excuse to shoot back and escalate things.

Should Taiwan declare it an act of war? What for? Taiwan isn't going to start a war with China. That's exactly what China wants.
 
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Oozlefinch

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By all rights, isn't this an act of war

Which is technically correct. Because according to the UN and most nations, Taiwan is not actually a "country".

Quite literally, China can do almost anything they want to Taiwan.

However, the more this all escalates, I have a feeling it will ultimately backfire on the PRC. And I think it is only a matter of time before some nation steps forward, and grants Taiwan official recognition as a nation. And at that point, this entire thing will either see the PRC slipping back quietly, or exploding in rage.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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China has not entered Taiwanese airspace. It has flown in international airspace that Taiwan has identified as its air defence identification zone.

An area that Taiwan wants all entering airplanes to identify themselves. Air defence identification zones have no legal basis, entering them is not an act of war
 

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There are several reasons the Chinese are doing this.

Ultimately everything falls behind keeping the CCP and Xi in power, so base your assumptions around that.

Sending a message... intelligence gathering... training.... generating hubris... testing Taiwan/USA/other allies response.
 

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China has not entered Taiwanese airspace. It has flown in international airspace that Taiwan has identified as its air defence identification zone.

An area that Taiwan wants all entering airplanes to identify themselves. Air defence identification zones have no legal basis, entering them is not an act of war
Taiwan has claimed such ADIZ was done illegally. One does wonder how exactly is it proven in that such an atmospheric boundary is breached by a foreign aircraft in flight in the moment. Unless so obvious that said foreign aircraft have directly crossed over at any point a land mass in violation. Experienced aviators, pleased advise. It's also noteworthy at this time to remind ourselves that Beijing has threatened Taiwan with force often.



Taiwanese defense ministry Sunday alleged that 19 warplanes from China entered Taiwan's Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) illegally, a day after a similar incursion by 38 jets of the Chinese military.


The ministry said the Chinese planes entered the ADIZ through the southwest area on Saturday night.


However, Beijing says it is a rebel province that must be reunified with the rest of the country and has noted on several occasions that it intends to recover the territory by force if necessary. EFE
 

Lord Tammerlain

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There is no illegal entry of an ADIZ. ADIZ’s are not a legally enforceable construct.

As for Taiwan, it was founded by the former leader of China. Taiwan still officially claims that it is the rightful ruler of mainland China.
 

Tigerace117

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There is no illegal entry of an ADIZ. ADIZ’s are not a legally enforceable construct.

As for Taiwan, it was founded by the former leader of China. Taiwan still officially claims that it is the rightful ruler of mainland China.

Because the PRC has gleefully promised to invade in order to subjugate the democracy next door if they dare drop those claims. Duh.
 

Grand Mal

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The United States is "concerned."

The United States "urges."

Whoa!

Those dyed-hair tyrants must be shaking in their boots at such tough talk.

If we had a real President and a real Congress, China would be told in private (so that they do not lose face) to stop it, or the United States would take vigorous action, such as recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation.

Bullies -- whether they be nations or common predators that prowl our city streets 24/7 -- understand only one thing: the iron fist.
Nobody believes the USA would go to war with China to protect Taiwan. Least of all China.
Your 'iron fist' ain't what you think it is.
 

Grand Mal

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There is no illegal entry of an ADIZ. ADIZ’s are not a legally enforceable construct.

As for Taiwan, it was founded by the former leader of China. Taiwan still officially claims that it is the rightful ruler of mainland China.
Yes. Taiwan was just a province of China that Chuang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang retreated to in '49. And the US officially tossed them under the China bus when the PRC was recognized and took Taiwan's seat in the U.N..
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Yes. Taiwan was just a province of China that Chuang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang retreated to in '49. And the US officially tossed them under the China bus when the PRC was recognized and took Taiwan's seat in the U.N..

If I am not mistaken at that time Taiwan was still a military dictatorship, only becoming democratic in either the late 80’s or early 90’s.

Taiwan being one of the 5 permanent members of the security council would be a stupid idea. The US pushed that through to counter the USSR
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Nobody believes the USA would go to war with China to protect Taiwan. Least of all China.
Your 'iron fist' ain't what you think it is.


China would only use the military to take over Taiwan if it declared formal independence. If that was to occur it would be nearly a 100% guarantee it would use military force no matter the cost.

Other than that I doubt China would invade. It has spent far to much on infrastructure in China which would be severely damaged in a war to just invade on a whim
 

Oozlefinch

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China has not entered Taiwanese airspace. It has flown in international airspace that Taiwan has identified as its air defence identification zone.

An area that Taiwan wants all entering airplanes to identify themselves. Air defence identification zones have no legal basis, entering them is not an act of war

Not true. All nations have their own National Airspace, and all aircraft (Private, National, or Military) have to identify themselves prior to entering it. It is part of International Law, actually. As well as they make first contact and identify themselves in English. And such zones do indeed have a legal basis, just as the naval zones did in the era before aircraft. Most aviation laws are actual descendants of older naval laws.


Your claims are about half right, and very slanted. True, entering them is not an act of war. But they are legal, and Taiwan is hardly the only nation that has them. In fact, most nations do, so long as they have the infrastructure to enforce them.
 

Questerr

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Not true. All nations have their own National Airspace, and all aircraft (Private, National, or Military) have to identify themselves prior to entering it. It is part of International Law, actually. As well as they make first contact and identify themselves in English. And such zones do indeed have a legal basis, just as the naval zones did in the era before aircraft. Most aviation laws are actual descendants of older naval laws.


Your claims are about half right, and very slanted. True, entering them is not an act of war. But they are legal, and Taiwan is hardly the only nation that has them. In fact, most nations do, so long as they have the infrastructure to enforce them.

An EEZ is not the same thing as an ADIZ. The former actually has international law supporting it.
 

Oozlefinch

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However, Beijing says it is a rebel province that must be reunified with the rest of the country and has noted on several occasions that it intends to recover the territory by force if necessary. EFE

Which is really what this ultimately is about. Like Hong Kong before, the PRC is almost obsessed over Taiwan. And they are starting to push harder and harder.

But I have a feeling that will backfire on them. Because a lot of countries like the US will not be pushed by such tactics. I would not expect it under the current Administration, but it would not surprise me if a future President returned the US to a "Two China Policy". Once again granting full recognition, and telling the PRC to "go piss on a rope". For over 70 years now, the PRC has been obsessing over that 35,808 square kilometer (13,826 sq mi) island. And trying to hold the world in blackmail, that you either recognize the PRC, or you recognize the ROC. They even finally got the UN to swap in their favor.

I for one to be honest am sick of it. That would be like North Korea screaming at any nation that recognized South Korea, or the US screaming at any nation that recognized Cuba. I have no problem if they do not want to recognize it, that is their own choice, but a foolish one as they have existed independent for over 70 years now. But to be honest, I am tired of their bullying, and wish some nation would take the first step and grant them official recognition again.

It does not matter what it started as, that Republic broke away from Mainland China in 1949 for goodness sakes. We have had entire "Official Nations" rise, fall, then rise and fall again multiple times during that time. Yet nobody is screaming that they should be returned to their "Home Nation". And I for one wish the PRC would just STFU about it. They have tried negotiations for decades, and now they are trying threats of force.

In fact, I would actually laugh my butt off if Japan and India took the lead in this. Especially as both nations have enough naval power to make the PRC step back and blink if they decided to put them to use defending Taiwan.
 

Oozlefinch

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An EEZ is not the same thing as an ADIZ. The former actually has international law supporting it.

Might want to read the actual article, not just the header.

However, international law does not prohibit coastal States from establishing ADIZs for security reasons in the international airspace within their EEZ. For example, an aircraft approaching national airspace may be required to identify itself while in international airspace as a condition of entry approval. ADIZs are justified in international law on the basis that a State has the right to impose reasonable conditions for entry into its national airspace. States that have standing ADIZs include Indonesia (over the island of Java), U.S., Japan, Canada, and France. U.S. ADIZs are set forth in 14 CFR 99.42, 99.43, 99.45, and 99.47 for the continental U.S, Alaska, Guam, and Hawaii respectively.

It is quite a long article, from Tuft's University mostly dealing with Laws of the Sea. But as aviation laws followed those, it applies and is covered also. But it does indeed have International Law supporting it.
 
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