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US troops Fire at Freed Hostage.

Squawker

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Mr Berlusconi, a staunch supporter of the US-led invasion of Iraq, said there were "disquieting questions" that needed to be answered.
Do you suppose a question will be Why didn’t the car stop at the check point? Why do the liberals have their shorts in a wad over this?
US troops fire at freed hostage

Freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has been hurt by US troops firing at a car taking her to Baghdad airport soon after her release.
An Italian secret service agent was killed in the shooting at a checkpoint.
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi summoned the US ambassador demanding an explanation for what he called "such a serious incident".
The US military in Baghdad confirmed that forces shot at a vehicle and said an investigation had been launched.
"About 2100 [1800 GMT], a patrol in western Baghdad observed the vehicle speeding towards their checkpoint and attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," it said in a statement.
"When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."
'Dumbfounded'
Mr Berlusconi, a staunch supporter of the US-led invasion of Iraq, said there were "disquieting questions" that needed to be answered.
"We are petrified and dumbfounded by this fatality," he said of the death of the agent, named as Nicola Calipari.
Mr Calipari died trying to shield Ms Sgrena with his body when they came under fire, Mr Berlusconi said.
"It is a pity. This was a joyful moment which made all our compatriots happy, which has been transformed into profound pain by the death of a person who behaved so bravely."
Ms Sgrena had a minor operation to extract shrapnel from her shoulder and a second agent was reported injured.
Demands
Earlier, a video was broadcast on the Arabic al-Jazeera satellite network showing an apparently healthy Ms Sgrena thanking her captors for the way they treated her.
A little-known militant group, Islamic Jihad Organisation, had said it kidnapped her and demanded that Italy withdraw its troops from Iraq.
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Squawker said:
Do you suppose a question will be Why didn’t the car stop at the check point?
No.

Squawker said:
Why do the liberals have their shorts in a wad over this?
Because of their never ending efforts to make the military look bad.
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
Because of their never ending efforts to make the military look bad.
Actually, liberals have no interest in making the military look bad, only the man who runs the military, GW Bush. And making him look bad is extremely easy.
 

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anomaly said:
Actually, liberals have no interest in making the military look bad, only the man who runs the military, GW Bush.
Admitting libs want to make Bush look bad - regardless of what he does or the circumstances. A liberal that's not a :liar :p
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
Admitting libs want to make Bush look bad - regardless of what he does or the circumstances. A liberal that's not a :liar :p
We don't make him look bad, he does that to himself. We simply point it out! Beyond making him 'look bad', liberals just have problems with basically everything this idiot does (I still can't understand how people can like this guy!). Is it wrong to criticize and disagree with the most powerful man in the world?
 

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anomaly said:
We don't make him look bad
anomaly said:
Actually, liberals have no interest in making the military look bad, only the man who runs the military, GW Bush.
anomaly said:
Is it wrong to criticize and disagree with the most powerful man in the world?
No, it's not.
 

anomaly

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Yeah, the top part was poorly worded on my part. To correct it, here's what I'm trying to say overall: The guy's an idiot!
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
And it took you three times say that. :lamo .
Actually, I called Bush an idiot in my second post. Nice try on counting, though. Back on topic, though, how is he not an idiot? Obviously you and the rest of the ultra-patriotic right wing believe this guy is some kind of genius.
 

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anomaly said:
Actually, I called Bush an idiot in my second post. Nice try on counting, though. Back on topic, though, how is he not an idiot?
Actually the topic is :US troops Fire at Freed Hostage
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
Actually the topic is :US troops Fire at Freed Hostage
Terribly sorry for straying from the topic, but, if you remember (or just look up) I was responding to something you said.
 

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anomaly said:
Terribly sorry for straying from the topic, but, if you remember (or just look up) I was responding to something you said.
I brought up the fact that Bush was or was not an idiot? :confused:

anomaly said:
Back on topic, though, how is he not an idiot?

anomaly said:
here's what I'm trying to say overall: The guy's an idiot!
I think it's time for you to go night night.
 

anomaly

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Batman said:
I brought up the fact that Bush was or was not an idiot? :confused:






I think it's time for you to go night night.
You're taking everything I say in different posts, and then mashing them together. Look back, and you'll see that I originally responded to something you said. Sure, I said Bush was an idiot, and now I ask you to tell me how he's not one, since, obviously, you don't think he is an idiot. So perhaps you'd like to respond this time?
 

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How did this thread end up being a debate about GWB's intelligence? But since that the topic of the hour. You really think some one capable of piloting a military jet aircraft is a moron? I know I don't. I mean it's not like there were aides and assistants up there in the ****pit with him were there? I'm a pilot and I think navigating and landing even Cessna 172 requires some basic smarts. I can only imagine what's going on in the ****pit of a Convair F-102A "Delta Dagger" like he flew. So you guy's who want to call him dumb, knock yourselves out- I'm not buying it.

But again what the heck's that got to do with this thread?

As far as the actual subject at hand. I don't see how, with what info's been released to date, we can say anyone's to blame for anything. Well maybe the driver of the vehicle. I would think anyone in that entire country would know by now when you approach a check point- you stop. This is a lot like the shooting of the young man in the mosque who turned out to be unarmed. How can anyone have any idea what it was like or what threat was perceived by our soldiers at that place, at that time. We've got our guys (and Gals) over there enduring all kinds of violence everyday. Roadside bombings, incoming RPG's and constant small arms fire. Is it unreasonable to think they might be a little touchy on the trigger? And why the heck didn't this car stop? Who's got the right to second guess?
 

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To get back on topic, this is another story.
US attack against Italians in Baghdad was deliberate: companion
Published: 3/5/2005
ROME - The companion of freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena on Saturday leveled serious accusations at US troops who fired at her convoy as it was nearing Baghdad airport, saying the shooting had been deliberate.
"The Americans and Italians knew about (her) car coming," Pier Scolari said on leaving Rome's Celio military hospital where Sgrena is to undergo surgery following her return home.
"They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which means that they had passed all checkpoints."
The shooting late Friday was witnessed by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's office which was on the phone with one of the secret service agents, said Scolari. "Then the US military silenced the cellphones," he charged.
"Giuliana had information, and the US military did not want her to survive," he added.
When Sgrena was kidnapped on February 4 she was writing an article on refugees from Fallujah seeking shelter at a Baghdad mosque after US forces bombed the former Sunni rebel stronghold.
Sgrena told RaiNews24 television Saturday a "hail of bullets" rained down on the car taking her to safety at Baghdad airport, along with three secret service agents, killing one of them.
"I was speaking to (agent) Nicola Calipari (...) when he leant on me, probably to protect me, and then collapsed and I realized he was dead," said Sgrena, who was being questioned on Saturday by two Italian magistrates.
"They continued shooting and the driver couldn't even explain that we were Italians. It was really horrible," she added.
Sgrena, who was hospitalized with serious wounds to her left shoulder and lung after arriving back in Rome Saturday before noon, said she was "exhausted because of what happened above all in the last 24 hours".
"After all the risks I have been running I can say that I'm fine," she said.
"I thought that after I was handed over to the Italians danger was over, but then this shooting broke out and we were hit by a hail of bullets."
The chief editor of Sgrena's left-wing newspaper Il Manifesto Gabriele Polo meanwhile branded Calipari's death a "murder".
"He was hit in the head," he said.
Calipari will be given a state funeral Monday.
03/05/2005 13:43 GMT
AFP and Turkish Press
Source

I find it hard to believe our troops were in on a plot to assassinate Ms. Sgrena.
 

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I am not surprised that this happened, we learn from our grandfathers and great grandfathers that fought along side Americans, the US troops shoot first, shoot some more, then maybe ask a question or two.

I don't know if the US media covered this but, the Italians are ****ed off. The dead secret service guy has been given a distingished medal and a STATE funeral.

Italy, like the UK is not too fond of this Iraq war, and the Prime Minister is feeling the heat from the public, the opposition and his own party. Within a year at the most, Italians troops will pull out of the Iraq, because of the election - the Prime Minister is fighting for his career.

I have to laugh that Rumsfeld has said he is saddened by it all. Isn't he the guy that signs KIA letters to the soldier's family with a rubber stamp?

Oh by the way, the whole "truck sped towards the checkpoint" excuse isn't going to wash with the Italians. The Italian journalist said they passed THREE checkpoints, the Italian people and the Italian Government are demanding that Bush makes a public apology. Bush doesn't say sorry lol.
 

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GarzaUK said:
I am not surprised that this happened, we learn from our grandfathers and great grandfathers that fought along side Americans, the US troops shoot first, shoot some more, then maybe ask a question or two.

I don't know if the US media covered this but, the Italians are ****ed off. The dead secret service guy has been given a distingished medal and a STATE funeral.

Italy, like the UK is not too fond of this Iraq war, and the Prime Minister is feeling the heat from the public, the opposition and his own party. Within a year at the most, Italians troops will pull out of the Iraq, because of the election - the Prime Minister is fighting for his career.

I have to laugh that Rumsfeld has said he is saddened by it all. Isn't he the guy that signs KIA letters to the soldier's family with a rubber stamp?

Oh by the way, the whole "truck sped towards the checkpoint" excuse isn't going to wash with the Italians. The Italian journalist said they passed THREE checkpoints, the Italian people and the Italian Government are demanding that Bush makes a public apology. Bush doesn't say sorry lol.
Even with the success of the Iraqi elections the Italians are going to pull out? Interesting we finally start being successful and they leave.

Rummy didn't use a rubber stamp- he use a very nice auto pen. Much more personal. Rummy's quite a guy. It only took him a year and half and some public embarrassment to figure out how to get some troops some armor. Remember you go to war with the Sect. of Defense you have, not the one you'd like to have.

Is there any real proof their vehicle passed three other check points? And if it did, why was it going so fast toward this one? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I read some of Sgrena's statement. She claims it was going something like 50Km. Really that's not that slow. I'd hate to be in a country where car bombs are being used to kill soldiers everyday and have a car/truck come at me at 50Km/25mph and not slow down. I think there's every chance I'd shoot the da*m thing too.
 

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The Italians story differs that from the American story, compared to Europeans, Americans tend to be to eager to pull the trigger. Rather shoot first, think later, while we think first, then shoot. That's why I think the British have done better in peacekeeping than the Americans. Americans are not really traditional peacekeepers.

Do you call Iraq a sucess because of elections? Curious since they haven't had their first government meeting yet. Time will tell of course and I hope I'm wrong. Elections or no elections we now know that there was NO danger to our countries security from Iraq. We beleive we had no right to poke our nose there.

There is an Italian election in 2006, the Italian people dislike the Iraq war. Expect a pull out soon. Democracy is a bother to democratic leaders. lol :roll:

Do you remember in the 2nd Presidental debate 2004 when a woman asked about US allies becoming distant and the anti-american attitute abroad? Bush just replied "The World loves America." Sorry Bush lovers he just told another lie.
Just thought about it there now for some reason. lol
 

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GarzaUK said:
The Italians story differs that from the American story, compared to Europeans, Americans tend to be to eager to pull the trigger. Rather shoot first, think later, while we think first, then shoot. That's why I think the British have done better in peacekeeping than the Americans. Americans are not really traditional peacekeepers.

Do you call Iraq a sucess because of elections? Curious since they haven't had their first government meeting yet. Time will tell of course and I hope I'm wrong. Elections or no elections we now know that there was NO danger to our countries security from Iraq. We beleive we had no right to poke our nose there.

There is an Italian election in 2006, the Italian people dislike the Iraq war. Expect a pull out soon. Democracy is a bother to democratic leaders. lol :roll:

Do you remember in the 2nd Presidental debate 2004 when a woman asked about US allies becoming distant and the anti-american attitute abroad? Bush just replied "The World loves America." Sorry Bush lovers he just told another lie.
Just thought about it there now for some reason. lol
I didn't call Iraq a success- I called the elections a success. Little different. My point was we’re starting to see some successes- now the Italians are going to leave. I just thought that was interesting.

As for: Do you remember in the 2nd Presidental debate 2004 when a woman asked about US allies becoming distant and the anti-american attitute abroad? Bush just replied "The World loves America." Yes, I remember him saying that. I almost fell out of my chair laughing. But I’m left wondering is he lying or just delusional. Bush seems to surround himself with people who’ll tell him exactly what he wants to hear. Those that don’t are quickly replaced by those who will. So he may well believe the world still does love America. I mean if you watch Fox News over here we’re the most loved and admired country on the planet. And any news agency that reports otherwise is just spreading “evil” anti-American propaganda.
 
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