US tariffs on China are illegal, says world trade body

[TU Curmudgeon]

From Associated Press

US tariffs on China are illegal, says world trade body
​

GENEVA (AP) — A World Trade Organization panel ruled Tuesday that Trump administration tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods are illegal, vindicating Beijing even if the United States has all but incapacitated the WTO’s ability to hand down a final, binding verdict.

The decision marks the first time that the Geneva-based trade body has ruled against a series of high-profile tariffs that President Donald Trump’s government has imposed on a number of countries — allies and rivals alike. Trump has repeatedly claimed that the WTO treats the U.S. unfairly.

The ruling, in theory, would allow China to impose retaliatory tariffs on billions’ worth of U.S. goods. But it is unlikely to have much practical impact, at least in the short term, because the U.S. can appeal the decision and the WTO’s appeals court is currently no longer functioning — largely because of Washington’s single-handed refusal to accept new members for it.

In its decision, the WTO’s dispute settlement body ruled against the U.S. government’s argument that China has wrongly engaged in practices harmful to U.S. interests on issues including intellectual property theft and technology transfer — and it quickly drew criticism of U.S. trade representative Robert Lighthizer.

COMMENT:-

While it is true that the US can appeal the ruling, the ruling stays in place until the appeal court stays it.

Since the appeal court can't sit until the US agrees to the appointment of the missing members on the appeals court, the ruling stays in place.

Of course China could simply go ahead and impose the retaliatory tariffs, at which point the US would have to go to the WTC to dispute them. Who knows, the US might even win. Of course China would then appeal that decision (while leaving the tariffs in place) and THAT appeal couldn't be heard until the US agrees to the appointment of the missing members on the appeals court.

It looks like the US has now out negotiated itself and that the only way that it can untangle the mess is to agree to the appointment of the missing members of the appeals court - but I could be wrong since Mr. Trump can always simply withdraw the US from the WTC (which would let the other nations of the world ignore whatever trade restrictions the US wants to place on them and to place any trade restrictions on the US that they feel like placing.

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of the President of this United States of America.
​

 

[Novichok]

Please, tell the WTO to **** itself or jump into the nearest lake.

Sincerely,

D. Trump

And it's "these", not "this".

 

[chuckiechan]

Please, tell the WTO to **** itself or jump into the nearest lake.

Sincerely,

D. Trump

And it's "these", not "this".

As they say in Russia, “toughski ****ski”. The world government idea left with Obama.

 

[Novichok]

As they say in Russia, “toughski ****ski”. The world government idea left with Obama.

In "America", we say FU.

 

[AmNat]

From Associated Press

US tariffs on China are illegal, says world trade body
​

GENEVA (AP) — A World Trade Organization panel ruled Tuesday that Trump administration tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods are illegal, vindicating Beijing even if the United States has all but incapacitated the WTO’s ability to hand down a final, binding verdict.

The decision marks the first time that the Geneva-based trade body has ruled against a series of high-profile tariffs that President Donald Trump’s government has imposed on a number of countries — allies and rivals alike. Trump has repeatedly claimed that the WTO treats the U.S. unfairly.

The ruling, in theory, would allow China to impose retaliatory tariffs on billions’ worth of U.S. goods. But it is unlikely to have much practical impact, at least in the short term, because the U.S. can appeal the decision and the WTO’s appeals court is currently no longer functioning — largely because of Washington’s single-handed refusal to accept new members for it.

In its decision, the WTO’s dispute settlement body ruled against the U.S. government’s argument that China has wrongly engaged in practices harmful to U.S. interests on issues including intellectual property theft and technology transfer — and it quickly drew criticism of U.S. trade representative Robert Lighthizer.

COMMENT:-

While it is true that the US can appeal the ruling, the ruling stays in place until the appeal court stays it.

Since the appeal court can't sit until the US agrees to the appointment of the missing members on the appeals court, the ruling stays in place.

Of course China could simply go ahead and impose the retaliatory tariffs, at which point the US would have to go to the WTC to dispute them. Who knows, the US might even win. Of course China would then appeal that decision (while leaving the tariffs in place) and THAT appeal couldn't be heard until the US agrees to the appointment of the missing members on the appeals court.

It looks like the US has now out negotiated itself and that the only way that it can untangle the mess is to agree to the appointment of the missing members of the appeals court - but I could be wrong since Mr. Trump can always simply withdraw the US from the WTC (which would let the other nations of the world ignore whatever trade restrictions the US wants to place on them and to place any trade restrictions on the US that they feel like placing.

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of the President of this United States of America.
​

Trump and Jinping will each do what they believe to be in the best interests of their respective countries. Nothing some self-important bureaucrat in Geneva says will make any difference.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Please, tell the WTO to **** itself or jump into the nearest lake.

Sincerely,

D. Trump

And it's "these", not "this".

Thank you for your nitpicking. You are correct. Rather than

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of the President of this United States of America.
​

it should have been

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of -the- _THIS_ President of the United States of America.
​

Mind you, it should NOT have been

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of the President of these United States of America.
​

I know, I have my badge.

​

now let's see yours.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Trump and Jinping will each do what they believe to be in the best interests of their respective countries. Nothing some self-important bureaucrat in Geneva says will make any difference.

If that were completely true, then the PRC wouldn't have bothered to go to the WTC in the first place.

Now that the WTC has ruled in favour of the PRC, the PRC has the mantle of respectability for any -retaliatory- compensatory actions which it wants to take and the US government doesn't have the option of whining "But they aren't playing by the rules (that we say apply to everyone but us).".

As before, the government of the United States of America is now hoist on its own petard since it cannot get any hearing on any appeal until it agrees to the filling of the vacancies on the Appeals Court bench. Of course, once it agrees to the filling of the vacancies on the Appeals Court bench then the appeals against the rulings favourable to the US can also proceed (and that means that applications for stays of those rulings can also proceed).

 

[Novichok]

Thank you for your nitpicking. You are correct. Rather than

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of the President of this United States of America.
​

it should have been

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of -the- _THIS_ President of the United States of America.
​

Mind you, it should NOT have been

I am constantly stunned by the intellectual level of the President of these United States of America.
​

I know, I have my badge.

View attachment 67295603​

now let's see yours.

My batch would have me banned.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

My batch would have me banned.

I'm sure.

 

[Hamish Howl]

And then the MAGA freaks get upset when Europe trades with China instead of us.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I wonder what the WTO has to say about the "infinity %" tariffs that China imposes on Google and Facebook.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

And then the MAGA freaks get upset when Europe trades with China instead of us.

The US currently comprises approximately 25% of the world market (based on total GDPs).

Based on population, the US comprises approximately 5% of the POTENTIAL world market.

An old friend of mine once remarked (paraphrased from memory)

"The Oriental way of doing business is to screw the customer as much as you can - the first time they are a customer because you have no idea if they will become a repeat customer - but to keep on giving the customer better and better deals the longer they remain a customer.

The American way of doing business is to give the customer the best deal you can - the first time they are a customer because you want them to become a repeat customer and then to give them worse and worse deals because you have them hooked.

The Oriental way of doing business depends on the customer realizing the benefits of being a repeat customer.

The American way of doing business depends on the customer NOT realizing the disadvantages of remaining a customer.

For the members of some societies (most notably the American society) the American way of doing business works in the long term.

For the members of other societies (and that means just about all societies except the American society) the Oriental way of doing business works in the long term.

The Orientals - generally - are quite prepared to play "the long game", Americans - generally - aren't.

The final outcome is almost inevitable and the only real question is 'How long is the long game?'."
​

Something to think about, eh wot?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I wonder what the WTO has to say about the "infinity %" tariffs that China imposes on Google and Facebook.

Probably nothing.

Mostly because they don't exist.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Probably nothing.

Mostly because they don't exist.

It's a figure of speech. Use of Facebook and many (if not all) Google services is completely banned in China.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It's a figure of speech. Use of Facebook and many (if not all) Google services is completely banned in China.

Yep, a "figure of speech", and calling a dog's tail a leg means that a dog has five legs.

However, I fully expect that the government of the PRC will take every possible advantage of the ruling and let the government of the US deal with the US lawsuits from the American companies that have to actually pay the tariffs over whether or not the government is allowed to collect an "illegal tax on Americans".

That should keep the US government busy in its spare time from attempting to convince the rest of the world that it has the authority to invoke the terms of an agreement that it has resiled from and its spare time from attempting to convince the governments of its allies that it really is OK for the US to punish them economically for not obeying US law outside of the United States of America.

 

[TomFitz]

Please, tell the WTO to **** itself or jump into the nearest lake.

Sincerely,

D. Trump

And it's "these", not "this".

Because trade wars are good! We learned that in the 1930’s.

 

[TomFitz]

And then the MAGA freaks get upset when Europe trades with China instead of us.

They haven’t figured that out yet.

As the United States increasingly gets left out or left behind in the global marketplace, the consequences of isolationism will become more apparant.

It will hit the sort of people in Trump’s base the hardest. They won’t see it coming. They never do. Most of them still believe in trickle down economics.

But when they increasingly realize that they’ve been left behind again, they’ll be the last to understand why.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The key part of that article from the OP, and why this conversation is largely worthless...

"The ruling, in theory, would allow China to impose retaliatory tariffs on billions’ worth of U.S. goods. But it is unlikely to have much practical impact, at least in the short term, because the U.S. can appeal the decision and the WTO’s appeals court is currently no longer functioning — largely because of Washington’s single-handed refusal to accept new members for it."

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The key part of that article from the OP, and why this conversation is largely worthless...

"The ruling, in theory, would allow China to impose retaliatory tariffs on billions’ worth of U.S. goods. But it is unlikely to have much practical impact, at least in the short term, because the U.S. can appeal the decision and the WTO’s appeals court is currently no longer functioning — largely because of Washington’s single-handed refusal to accept new members for it."

You are quite right, and the PRC can simply ignore the fact that the US has filed an appeal and impose the tariffs despite the appeal.

Of course, that would mean that the US could then file a new case with the WTO in protest over the Chinese tariffs and, if it wins, the Chinese could simply appeal to the non-functioning (due to deliberate action by the government of the United States of America) WTO Appeals Court.

In short, unless the US government stops its "obstruction" of the WTO, the US government has no realistic course of action should the Chinese simply go ahead and impost the retaliatory tariffs.

This is what is known in the trade as "Playing Hardball".