US Supreme Court to hear case of Washington football coach who led students in prayer

[j brown's body]

Yeah, I see news reports of them being fired all over the place....not.

How many need to be fired for it to matter?

 

[Noodlegawd]

I guess that is the question we await finding the answer to How confident are you in your no?

I'm 100% confident that it is the right answer. I'm also confident that the Supreme Court will probably get it wrong.

 

[j brown's body]

Same thing back, how would you know unless there is some obvious manifestation of retribution.

BTW thanks for the link to the audio, listening now.

No kid should be put in that position where it could happen.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.”

Look a devout leftist Christian who can prooftext scripture! Lol.

^^^ believers can disregard this nonsense, this is bad faith argumentation by people who want to use what they think are your rules against you.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I'm 100% confident that it is the right answer. I'm also confident that the Supreme Court will probably get it wrong.

The Supreme Court is the supreme governing junta of America, they cannot be wrong. It is literally impossible

 

[Airyaman]

Happens in Dearborn. MI

Faith, Fasting, Football: The story of the Fordson High School football team

Skokie is a suburb north of Chicago that is known for having a large Jewish population. But on this September 11th evening, I hopped in my car and headed to a movie theatre in Skokie – one of only …

my52wow.com

"Although the movie was about Fordson High, I thought that one especially moving portion of the movie came when we saw the football team Fordson’s cross-town rival, Dearborn High pray before the game. First, the Muslim players recited the al-Fâtiha prayer…then their Christian teammates recited the Lord’s prayer. As each group prayed, those that did not practice that religion stood silently, respectfully. I imagine that some team members chose to say neither. But that portion of the movie showed how we can stand shoulder to shoulder, with different beliefs, and respect each other, if we so choose."

You obviously don't understand the prior rulings. Students can lead their own prayers as they are not employees of the government.

 

[j brown's body]

No.

The possibility of coercion here is non-existent.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I'd like to think the court would decide this is a clear case of the coach having gone to far -- but with the court stacked with right-wing operatives, I'd expect it to go the other way.

One reality check is to picture how the community would react if it had been a religious message they weren't as comfortable with. For example, what if the coach went out and lay down a pentagram and said prayers to Lucifer? What if he'd brought out a Muslim prayer rug, and gave a sermon to team members about how there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet? What if it had been a sermon about how eating meat is evil, or how those with a faith in God should not seek medical attention for illnesses, but instead should trust in prayer? What if he gave an inspirational talk built on the idea that there is no God and so the players could only trust in each other and their own preparation? Or how about if his sermon had been about how Black people are inferior (a position that some religions have, in fact, taken)?

I'm pretty sure the community would have taken the view that any of those things would be inappropriate for kids to be participating in on government property, led by a government employee, during a government-financed event. I don't think they would have taken the view that it's OK because the kids were free not to join in.

If I'm right, and the community would have treated that as an abuse of his position if he'd been pushing messages of that sort, then of course they need to treat it that way for any prayer. Otherwise, the rule is effectively that government promotion of religion is OK, as long as it's the RIGHT religion. And that's exactly the kind of government intrusion on religious matters we should be avoiding.

Well I mean you make a mistake of assuming the constitution treat all claimed religions equally. The constitution as written does not protect satanism and it is in fact morally compelled the government legally proscribe such beliefs and use force to prevent their practice

 

[j brown's body]

The Supreme Court is the supreme governing junta of America, they cannot be wrong. It is literally impossible

Only when they are overturned later by another infallible court.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You obviously don't understand the prior rulings. Students can lead their own prayers as they are not employees of the government.

The prior rulings are wrong anyway. Any Supreme Court ruling that says local government officials cannot privilege religious belief or practice is simply an incorrect ruling, usually one made after the 1950s because of communist influence in the legal community

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Only when they are overturned later by another infallible court.

But that’s like the King issuing a new proclamation.

 

[j brown's body]

Well I mean you make a mistake of assuming the constitution treat all claimed religions equally. The constitution as written does not protect satanism and it is in fact morally compelled the government legally proscribe such beliefs and use force to prevent their practice

Why doesn't the first amendment protect satanism?

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Well I mean you make a mistake of assuming the constitution treat all claimed religions equally. The constitution as written does not protect satanism and it is in fact morally compelled the government legally proscribe such beliefs and use force to prevent their practice

Catholics routinely practice Satanism.

 

[Noodlegawd]

The constitution as written does not protect satanism

Why not?

and it is in fact morally compelled the government legally proscribe such beliefs and use force to prevent their practice

Where do you see this?

 

[j brown's body]

The prior rulings are wrong anyway. Any Supreme Court ruling that says local government officials cannot privilege religious belief or practice is simply an incorrect ruling, usually one made after the 1950s because of communist influence in the legal community

We can tell what rulings are right or wrong based on whether you agree with them or not.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why doesn't the first amendment protect satanism?

Because it’s not a religious practice but celebration of evil. It would be if the claimed satanist were really following Satan, but in nearly all cases they’re atheists who want to use symbology for shock value, and their symbology can be declared obscene and banned that way.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Catholics routinely practice Satanism.

No, they don’t.

 

[Airyaman]

The prior rulings are wrong anyway. Any Supreme Court ruling that says local government officials cannot privilege religious belief or practice is simply an incorrect ruling, usually one made after the 1950s because of communist influence in the legal community

You should try to get appointed to SCOTUS.

 

[Liberal7360]

The SCOTUS need to get this one right and rule that this man, as expressed in the first amendment, has a right to the freedom of expression of his religious beliefs. Even in a government school setting.

The act of this man, on his own going to the center of the field and silently praying after games is in no way, shape or form "CONGRESS MAKING A LAW RESPECTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A RELIGION".

The fact that students voluntarily joined him is of no consequence either.

US Supreme Court to hear case of Washington football coach who led students in prayer

Joseph Kennedy, a former football coach at Bremerton High School, would kneel at the center of the field and lead students in prayer. The school district asked him to stop.

www.al.com

I sure hope so and I hope that the Supreme Court rules against that coach but they won't. The court is ruled by conservatives who ignore the separation of church and state and freedom of religion.

I just hope that a muslim starts to lead students in muslim prayers and hopefully they will be christian students.

Or how about a Pagan leading christians in Pagan prayers. Or how about a satanist leading christians in satan prayers?

Why do people who aren't christian have to be tolerant of being forced to witness christian prayers?

A football game or any sport isn't the place for religion.

I'm not christian or muslim or jewish and after all these decades of christians forcing their faith on everyone in places that religion has no business being, christians have gone way too far.

If you want to pray, go to church.

Stop forcing it on everyone else.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

No, they don’t.

Yes they do. I witnessed it for years.

 

[Cope]

What he did, according to the article, is delivered religious talks -- a prayer in the locker room before games, then a talk with religious references at the 50 yard line. I think that stepped over the line. Praying in way that didn't engage others is fine. But since he's a government employee in a government setting in a taxpayer-financed event, abusing that position to promote his own religion to others was wrong, especially to kids. But, I expect the wingnut-stacked high court will disagree.

Did you think the same by a paid individual on his paid time on the field?

Just to be clear, when you say I'm likely not right, are you predicting that the USSC will decide against him?

I was saying that you are likely not right to the part I quoted. The "if I'm right" when talking about the community.

 

[Mina]

Well I mean you make a mistake of assuming the constitution treat all claimed religions equally. The constitution as written does not protect satanism and it is in fact morally compelled the government legally proscribe such beliefs and use force to prevent their practice

What makes you think that?

 

[Cope]

I sure hope so and I hope that the Supreme Court rules against that coach but they won't. The court is ruled by conservatives who ignore the separation of church and state and freedom of religion.

This sounds like a bunch of jibber jabber excuses.

I just hope that a muslim starts to lead students in muslim prayers and hopefully they will be christian students.

Me too

Or how about a Pagan leading christians in Pagan prayers. Or how about a satanist leading christians in satan prayers?

Why do people who aren't christian have to be tolerant of being forced to witness christian prayers?

Because it's polite.

A football game or any sport isn't the place for religion.

Neither is it a place for political positions but meh, they happen.

I'm not christian or muslim or jewish and after all these decades of christians forcing their faith on everyone in places that religion has no business being, christians have gone way too far.

Me either.

If you want to pray, go to church.

They can pray wherever they wish to pray, if there are consequences from that, let them bear them. If the school had fired him for something along those lines, I'd probably be ok with it. They employ him to coach not lead prayers. Him bowing his head was perfectly fine and reasonable.

Stop forcing it on everyone else.

He/they usually didn't. Then again, I think our interpretations of "forced upon" are very different.

 

[Cope]

The Supreme Court is the supreme governing junta of America, they cannot be wrong. It is literally impossible

They can be wrong, when decided they are wrong, by themselves.

 

[j brown's body]

Because it’s not a religious practice but celebration of evil. It would be if the claimed satanist were really following Satan, but in nearly all cases they’re atheists who want to use symbology for shock value, and their symbology can be declared obscene and banned that way.

Where is your evidence?