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US pullout in doubt after day of slaughter on streets of Baghdad

Renae

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Extremists struck at the Iraqi Government with a wave of bombings and mortar attacks, killing at least 95 people and injuring more than 560 and raising new doubts about the withdrawal of US soldiers from the country.

The bombings were directed against the main centres of power, including the ministries of finance, foreign affairs, health, education and housing, as well as the parliament and cabinet buildings.

A lorry packed with explosives that went off within 30ft of the Foreign Ministry is reported to have killed up to 59 people and injured 250. The ministry’s compound wall was flattened and the ten-storey building all but destroyed. Cars and buildings in the vicinity were devastated and houses five miles away were shaken
US pullout in doubt after day of slaughter on streets of Baghdad - Times Online


Gee... wasn't that one of Bush's big concerns, if we leave too soon, the country will get hammered by violence... oh look, PBO rushed out and ... gasp!
 

Crunch

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What?? No commentary on this story??

What's to say? It was easily predictable, just like the sun coming up each morning.

Gosh, isn't Barry a genius?… It’s so nice to have such an articulate man in the White House.

[/sarcasm]
 

disneydude

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Crunch

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When will you neocons ever figure out that it is not our calling to police the world. We should have never been in there in the first place and we have no business being there now. Period.

Get your prayer rug cleaned... with your attitude you're going to need it.
 

The Mark

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When will you neocons ever figure out that it is not our calling to police the world. We should have never been in there in the first place and we have no business being there now. Period.

That is your opinion of the situation.

Thus, I would assume the reason that "neocons" (or more precisely, those who disagree with your position, classified as "neocons" by you) can't "figure out" what you describe because it's not a matter of "figuring out" anything.

They just don't agree with your opinion.
 

apdst

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When will you neocons ever figure out that it is not our calling to police the world. We should have never been in there in the first place and we have no business being there now. Period.

If we leave, without completing the mission, we'll have to go right back. Just like we did in 2003 when we went back to Iraq after leaving things half finished in 91. Just like we went back to Afghanistan after ****ing up the end game in the 80's.
 

disneydude

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That is your opinion of the situation.

Thus, I would assume the reason that "neocons" (or more precisely, those who disagree with your position, classified as "neocons" by you) can't "figure out" what you describe because it's not a matter of "figuring out" anything.

They just don't agree with your opinion.

They are called "neocons" not because they disagree with my position, but because they believe in an imperialist agenda of invading countries and trying to convert them to our system of "Democracy". There are a lot of people who I disagree with that are not neo-cons. I don't throw the word around willy-nilly, only where applicable to the situation.

The reality is, there was no reason for us to go into Iraq, other than the fact that Rumsfield and Cheney had been trying to do so for decades.
The way they manipulated Bush to use 911 to manipulate the public to justify their agenda is unforgiveable in that they used our military men and women as play pieces in their "games".

The United States is not the "policer" of the world. We have no business in Iraq now and never have. The sooner we realize that and leave, the better.
 

disneydude

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If we leave, without completing the mission, we'll have to go right back. Just like we did in 2003 when we went back to Iraq after leaving things half finished in 91. Just like we went back to Afghanistan after ****ing up the end game in the 80's.

and what is "the mission". To promote the imperialist ideals of the neo-cons?
 

Crunch

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They are called "neocons" not because they disagree with my position, but because they believe in an imperialist agenda of invading countries and trying to convert them to our system of "Democracy". There are a lot of people who I disagree with that are not neo-cons. I don't throw the word around willy-nilly, only where applicable to the situation.

The reality is, there was no reason for us to go into Iraq, other than the fact that Rumsfield and Cheney had been trying to do so for decades.
The way they manipulated Bush to use 911 to manipulate the public to justify their agenda is unforgiveable in that they used our military men and women as play pieces in their "games".

The United States is not the "policer" of the world. We have no business in Iraq now and never have. The sooner we realize that and leave, the better.

Not much on "National Security"... are you.
 

Crunch

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and what is "the mission". To promote the imperialist ideals of the neo-cons?

Last I heard we killed 20,000 jihadist in Iraq.... better there than here.

Guess I'm one of those "not in my backyard" type people.
 

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When will you neocons ever figure out that it is not our calling to police the world. We should have never been in there in the first place and we have no business being there now. Period.

Up to the point of boots on the ground, your argument had merit.

Once our men and women started to die over there, their lives are not to be tossed aside for political gain...

But you don't care about their lives, if they died, were maimed... lost friends now for nothing because we tucked tail and ran.

Nope, it's "WOO HOO POLITICAL GAIN!!!"

Makes me sick reading people so callous towards the sacrifices of our troops wasted.
 

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Not much on "National Security"... are you.

I am when it actually has something to do with our National Security.

Oh...that's right....Did you buy into that Bush Administration link between 911 and Iraq?
 

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Up to the point of boots on the ground, your argument had merit.

Once our men and women started to die over there, their lives are not to be tossed aside for political gain...

But you don't care about their lives, if they died, were maimed... lost friends now for nothing because we tucked tail and ran.

Nope, it's "WOO HOO POLITICAL GAIN!!!"

Makes me sick reading people so callous towards the sacrifices of our troops wasted.


Thats where you are completely wrong.

Caring about them, their lives...their limbs means caring about why they are there in the first place.

It makes me sick when I read about people who are so callous towards the lives of our troops that they care not at all about the lies and the manipulation that were promulgated to use them to advance an agenda such as this.
When you justify their actions, you are as guilty as they in playing with our soldiers lives like they are checkers on a checkboard. Sad
 

Crunch

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I am when it actually has something to do with our National Security.

Oh...that's right....Did you buy into that Bush Administration link between 911 and Iraq?

No... I bought into that myth about Islamic jihadists being dangerous.
 

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Thats where you are completely wrong.

Caring about them, their lives...their limbs means caring about why they are there in the first place.

It makes me sick when I read about people who are so callous towards the lives of our troops that they care not at all about the lies and the manipulation that were promulgated to use them to advance an agenda such as this.
When you justify their actions, you are as guilty as they in playing with our soldiers lives like they are checkers on a checkboard. Sad

Dude, once they are in combat, and dying, you have no moral ground to demand those lost lives be wasted for nothing.

End of story, you, and people like you are why Al-Quada propaganda is basically "Just kill enough of them and wait it out, they'll turn tail and run home!! American's are soft!"
 

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No... I bought into that myth about Islamic jihadists being dangerous.

If that were true than why would you justify us taking our eyes off of those who ACTUALLY attacked us and support and administration who lied and manipulated the public fear from 911 to justify an attack that Rumsfield and Cheney had been planning for years?
 

disneydude

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Dude, once they are in combat, and dying, you have no moral ground to demand those lost lives be wasted for nothing.

End of story, you, and people like you are why Al-Quada propaganda is basically "Just kill enough of them and wait it out, they'll turn tail and run home!! American's are soft!"

Sorry....but I'm not a "prime the pump" kinda guy like you are suggesting. Well....since they've killed 1000 of our soliders we have to sacrifice more to justify those who died even though we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

That rationale makes absolutely no sense.

(P.S....the actual Al-Qaeda propoganda is "Join us, the United States is evil and believes that they are the controllers of the world, just look at their imperialistic actions that they continue to take...." it is THAT idiotic foreign policy agenda that has put us all at risk.
 
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The Mark

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They are called "neocons" not because they disagree with my position, but because they believe in an imperialist agenda of invading countries and trying to convert them to our system of "Democracy". There are a lot of people who I disagree with that are not neo-cons. I don't throw the word around willy-nilly, only where applicable to the situation.

Perhaps.

And perhaps you are attributing thoughts to others which they do not think.

The reality is, there was no reason for us to go into Iraq, other than the fact that Rumsfield and Cheney had been trying to do so for decades.
The way they manipulated Bush to use 911 to manipulate the public to justify their agenda is unforgivable in that they used our military men and women as play pieces in their "games".

Some would disagree with your statement.

As I said, it is your opinion. It may be backed up with facts, but facts are simply a way to support an opinion...and they can be twisted to fit specific views.

The United States is not the "policer" of the world. We have no business in Iraq now and never have. The sooner we realize that and leave, the better.

This statement is perhaps true.

But some may disagree with you.

Others may say that the "the USA is not the police of the world" argument does not apply to this situation.

It is a matter of opinion.
 

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Actually, they're called "neo-conservatives" because they used to be liberals, Marxists even, but they turned conservative. Hence, they were new (neo) conservatives.

But, I'm fully aware that people don't know that, and some think it just sounds like "neo-Nazi," so it must mean the same thing.

Of course, for still OTHERS, it's just a derogatory code word for "Jew."
 
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To bad Bush did not realize that if we had not gone there in the first place this would not be happening at all.

Moe

That's like crying over spilt milk.
 

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That's like crying over spilt milk.

Spilt milk? More like they burned the entire dairy to the ground. My last job we had a couple of Yemeni Arabs working with us. Talking with them Saddam is now a hero and a martyr in the Middle East. Apparently according to them when Saddam was hung a false report was made that he was frightened. But a few days later a video tape was released showing that Saddam faced death bravely.

This makes Saddam a hero. Not a coward. Because to them it is not how a man lives but rather how he dies that is important to Muslims. Thus all his sins are forgiven and he is now a martyr for the cause.
Good job Mr Bush.

20,000 Jihadists. How many Jihadists were in Iraq before the invasion? How active was Al Queda?

If they were looking to really deal a fatal blow to terrorism and end the trouble in the Middle East why didn’t they take on Iran? That is where the nuclear weapons programs are, That is the Nation that is funding terrorists and that is the nation that wants to truly dominate the middle east and spread Jihad world wide right into our own back yards.

Moe
 

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I enjoy all this "stop being the police for the world" bumper sticker arguments, but then go on to act completely oblivious to the 800 or so installations in at least 38 other countries. It's like "damn Neo-Conservatives sending us to Iraq" then to go on about the day giving silent confirmation, whether out of ignorance or plain stupidity, to the other deployments. Sure, we don't hear about the 1200 or so troops in Serbia, nor the 9600 or so in Italy. Yet they're a shrill indicator of our 'policing,' yet they are given a free pass? Caimpaigns that were started by everyone but so called Neo-Conservatives, are given a free pass? Sure, can't expect much more from some people.

Really, it's a tad disappointing and shows that people willing to jump on the "isolationist" bandwagon are not doing if for any more reason then to further their own narrow points. If you're against policing the world, I'd suggest you look past the Democrat Party's talking points, so I can look at you and see more than a sheople.
 

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I enjoy all this "stop being the police for the world" bumper sticker arguments, but then go on to act completely oblivious to the 800 or so installations in at least 38 other countries. It's like "damn Neo-Conservatives sending us to Iraq" then to go on about the day giving silent confirmation,

Many more factors involved than just neo conservatives. This was a Bush clique decision and they used devious methods to bring it about. Saddam was an evil man that no one can doubt. But he was not a threat to the US. The so called war on terror was used as an excuse to invade to settle personal issues rather than national.

Although the Saddam regime was brutal it was stable. Now the Iraqi people are being brutalized and the country is not stable. Not to mention that most of the support for the war against terrorism has evaporated because of Iraq.

Moe
 
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