US Marines begin relocation from Okinawa to Guam (1 Viewer)

[Fledermaus]

Not when compared to the rest of the population, funnily enough.

An overwhelming majority went against the new base, and no amount of sputtering can change that.

So, yes. 30% is a large number....

 

[Tigerace117]

There were assults and rapes in the following decades....

Yep.

And we sent many offenders to Courts Martial.

The "completely immune to the consequences of such actions" is hyperbole.

None of which would have happened if the US military had left decades earlier, as the locals kept demanding over....and over....and over....and over...and over.

Instead the US military ignored such demands. Repeatedly.

The Koza riot occurred because US servicemen hit an Okinawan woman with a vehicle, killed her....and then were promptly acquitted.

And then, when yet another Okinawan civilian was hit by drunk Americans, rather than pay any attention to the incident, the MPs just tried to get the drunks out of there.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Gee, I wonder if something happened on Okinawa that was deeply traumatic to the locals and made them especially unwilling to put up with abuse from an unaccountable foreign military?

“In its history of the war, the Okinawa Prefectural Peace Memorial Museum[88] presents Okinawa as being caught between Japan and the United States. During the battle, the Imperial Japanese Army showed indifference to Okinawans' safety, and its soldiers used civilians as human shields or outright killed them. The Japanese military also confiscated food from the Okinawans and executed those who hid it, leading to mass starvation, and forced civilians out of their shelters. Japanese soldiers also killed about 1,000 people who spoke in the Okinawan language to suppress spying.[90]“

“Witnesses and historians claim that soldiers, mainly Japanese troops, raped Okinawan women during the battle. Rape by Japanese troops reportedly "became common" in June, after it became clear that the Imperial Japanese Army had been defeated.[35][19]: 462 “

“There are, however, numerous credible testimony accounts which note that a large number of rapes were committed by American forces during the battle. This includes stories of rape after trading sexual favors or even marrying Americans,[100] such as the alleged incident in the village of Katsuyama, where civilians said they had formed a vigilante group to ambush and kill three black American soldiers who they claimed would frequently rape the local girls there.[101]”

“Reportedly, three African-AmericanMarines of the United States Marines Corps began to repeatedly visit the village of Katsuyama, northwest of the city of Nago, and every time they violently took the village women into the nearby hills and raped them. The Marines became so confident that the villagers of Katsuyama were powerless to stop them, they came to the village without their weapons.[2]

The villagers took advantage of this and ambushed them with the help of two armed Imperial Japanese Army soldiers who were hiding in the nearby jungle.[2]Shinsei Higa, who was sixteen at the time, remembers that "I didn't see the actual killing because I was hiding in the mountains above, but I heard five or six gunshots and then a lot of footsteps and commotion. By late afternoon, we came down from the mountains and then everyone knew what had happened."[1]

Battle of Okinawa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1945 Katsuyama killing incident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All seem like good reasons for them to want the Americans to stick around.

 

[Fledermaus]

None of which would have happened if the US military had left decades earlier, as the locals kept demanding over....and over....and over....and over...and over.

Instead the US military ignored such demands. Repeatedly.

The Koza riot occurred because US servicemen hit an Okinawan woman with a vehicle, killed her....and then were promptly acquitted.

And then, when yet another Okinawan civilian was hit by drunk Americans, rather than pay any attention to the incident, the MPs just tried to get the drunks out of there.

Ah, the Tigerace mantra....

MURICA EVIL ....

The US has not departed because the bases are currently vital to US interests in the area. With the loss of Philippine bases it is even more so.

And "US military ignored such demands. Repeatedly" can be laughed at because of base closures that have occurred regularly on Okinawa. And the US attempt to move from MCAS Futenma has been blocked recently over other issues.

And Koza? Half a century ago.

 

[Rich2018]

Not when compared to the rest of the population, funnily enough.

An overwhelming majority went against the new base, and no amount of sputtering can change that.

Indeed, 70% wanting the USA to leave is a huge number. Not that the USA cares though, I dare say even more Cubans want the US military out of Cuba.

 

[Fledermaus]

Indeed, 70% wanting the USA to leave is a huge number. Not that the USA cares though, I dare say even more Cubans want the US military out of Cuba.

Guess what....

Okinawa can complain until the cows come home. It matters very little.

The government of Japan is the final arbiter of Base locations within Japan.

 

[Tigerace117]

All seem like good reasons for them to want the Americans to stick around.

Way to show you didn’t read past, like, the third sentence.

Since the latter paragraphs point out rather clearly that the US military committed plenty of abuses against the local population.....which shows, in great detail, why the overwhelming majority of the locals don’t want the Americans to stick around.

 

[Tigerace117]

Ah, the Tigerace mantra....

MURICA EVIL ....

The US has not departed because the bases are currently vital to US interests in the area. With the loss of Philippine bases it is even more so.

And "US military ignored such demands. Repeatedly" can be laughed at because of base closures that have occurred regularly on Okinawa. And the US attempt to move from MCAS Futenma has been blocked recently over other issues.

And Koza? Half a century ago.

The US military committing atrocities against civilian is blatantly evil, yes. Fascinating that the reasons why the overwhelming majority of the locals want US troops off their island— and have for decades— being pointed out makes you whine so much.

The US keeps its jackboot firmly pressed on the people of Okinawa’s necks, yes. The locals have been asking America to leave for decades. The US choosing to back a corrupt despot in the Philippines and that backfiring is not the Okinawans’ problem.

The Okinawans want the US off their island. Crying “but we closed some of the bases” does not address that demand.

Which shows that the Okinawans have protesting for a very long time...and the US has only just now finally gotten around to partly listening.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Way to show you didn’t read past, like, the third sentence.

Since the latter paragraphs point out rather clearly that the US military committed plenty of abuses against the local population.....which shows, in great detail, why the overwhelming majority of the locals don’t want the Americans to stick around.

I read it just fine. There were a quarter of a million American troops in Okinawa during that battle. It should surprise no one that some of them weren't so nice. You're stacking up widespread and systematic oppression and murder by the Japanese military against a handful of accounts of what a few American soldiers did in the middle of savage battle.

That's about the same as pointing to 3 sexual assaults by Marines in the last year, without identifying the rate of sexual assault among the general population.

 

[Oozlefinch]

All seem like good reasons for them to want the Americans to stick around.

A lot of people tend to forget that the Marines in Japan have been part of our mutual defense treaty with Japan for decades. One of the reasons they have such a small military relative to their size is because the US is guaranteeing their safety. And the number of US forces is actually decided by the National Government in Tokyo, not the people in Okinawa.

Or to look at it in another way, it would be like the people of New Jersey or Texas suddenly deciding they did not want military bases in their state anymore. Yeah, I wish them just as much luck if they try to order the US Government to close their bases there. I seem to remember that actually happening one over a century and a half ago, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Fledermaus]

The US military committing atrocities against civilian is blatantly evil, yes. Fascinating that the reasons why the overwhelming majority of the locals want US troops off their island— and have for decades— being pointed out makes you whine so much.

The US keeps its jackboot firmly pressed on the people of Okinawa’s necks, yes. The locals have been asking America to leave for decades. The US choosing to back a corrupt despot in the Philippines and that backfiring is not the Okinawans’ problem.

The Okinawans want the US off their island. Crying “but we closed some of the bases” does not address that demand.

Which shows that the Okinawans have protesting for a very long time...and the US has only just now finally gotten around to partly listening.

You read but do not understand.

The US has drawn down. Bases closed. Land given to Okinawa. One example was given of a large swath of land turned into Shopping, etc.

The most recent draw down was planned back in 2012 with planned execution 2024.

MCAS Futenma movement blocked by Okinawa. JAPAN stepped in and overturned Okinawa's objections.

And your "jackboot firmly pressed on the people of Okinawa’s necks" is yet more hyperbole and nonsense.

It is JAPAN that decides whether we leave or stay. And JAPAN isn't as enamored with the Okinawan people.

Okinawa may want the US off the island but it is JAPAN'S island.

 

[Fledermaus]

A lot of people tend to forget that the Marines in Japan have been part of our mutual defense treaty with Japan for decades. One of the reasons they have such a small military relative to their size is because the US is guaranteeing their safety. And the number of US forces is actually decided by the National Government in Tokyo, not the people in Okinawa.

Or to look at it in another way, it would be like the people of New Jersey or Texas suddenly deciding they did not want military bases in their state anymore. Yeah, I wish them just as much luck if they try to order the US Government to close their bases there. I seem to remember that actually happening one over a century and a half ago, and we all know how that turned out.

It simply interesting how Okinawa is less than a tenth of Japan's land mass but contains around two thirds of the US presence.

 

[Tigerace117]

I read it just fine. There were a quarter of a million American troops in Okinawa during that battle. It should surprise no one that some of them weren't so nice. You're stacking up widespread and systematic oppression and murder by the Japanese military against a handful of accounts of what a few American soldiers did in the middle of savage battle.

That's about the same as pointing to 3 sexual assaults by Marines in the last year, without identifying the rate of sexual assault among the general population.

Gee, the local people on Okinawa don’t seem to agree with you that Americans raping and abusing the local civilians isn’t as bad as the IJA doing it, strangely enough

And if the US military had left like the Okinawans have been demanding for decades, none of those assaults by Marines would have taken place.

Oh really? Because, as already pointed out, the three Marines who got killed weren’t even armed. Clearly they didn’t feel like they were in the middle of a “savage battle”.

“Okinawan historian Oshiro Masayasu (former director of the Okinawa Prefectural Historical Archives) writes:

Soon after the U.S. marines landed, all the women of a village on Motobu Peninsula fell into the hands of American soldiers. At the time, there were only women, children and old people in the village, as all the young men had been mobilized for the war. Soon after landing, the Marines "mopped up" the entire village, but found no signs of Japanese forces. Taking advantage of the situation, they started "hunting for women" in broad daylight and those who were hiding in the village or nearby air raid shelters were dragged out one after another.[7]

According to Toshiyuki Tanaka, 76 cases of rape or rape-murder were reported during the first five years of the American occupation of Okinawa. However, he asserts this is probably not the true figure, as most cases were unreported.[8]

Professor of East Asian Studies and expert on Okinawa Steve Rabson said: "I have read many accounts of such rapes in Okinawan newspapers and books, but few people know about them or are willing to talk about them".[5] Books, diaries, articles and other documents refer to rapes by American soldiers of various races and backgrounds. Masaie Ishihara, a sociology professor, supports this: "There is a lot of historical amnesia out there, many people don't want to acknowledge what really happened".[5]

Although Japanese reports of rape were largely ignored at the time due to lack of records, as many as 10,000 Okinawan women may have been raped according to an estimate from one Okinawan historian.[10] It has been claimed that the rape was so prevalent that most Okinawans over age 65 around the year 2000 either knew or had heard of a woman who was raped in the aftermath of the war. US Military officials stated in 2000 that there is no evidence of mass rapes.[5]“

An explanation given for why the US military has no record of any rapes is that few – if any – Okinawan women reported abuse, mostly out of fear and embarrassment. Those who did report them are believed by historians to have been ignored by the U.S. military police. A large scale effort to determine the extent of such crimes has also never been called for. Over five decades after the war has ended the women who were believed to have been raped still refused to give a public statement, with friends, local historians and university professors who had spoken with the women instead saying they preferred not to discuss it publicly. According to a Nago, Okinawan police spokesman: "Victimized women feel too ashamed to make it public".[5]”

Rape during the occupation of Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So no, it was a lot more than just a few isolated incidents.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I read it just fine. There were a quarter of a million American troops in Okinawa during that battle. It should surprise no one that some of them weren't so nice. You're stacking up widespread and systematic oppression and murder by the Japanese military against a handful of accounts of what a few American soldiers did in the middle of savage battle.

That's about the same as pointing to 3 sexual assaults by Marines in the last year, without identifying the rate of sexual assault among the general population.

Well, I already pointed out what it roughly is on a US college campus. And they were over 4 times more likely to be sexually assaulted on a college campus, even with a significant number of the students being females (which is definitely not the case on Okinawa). I could not find any crime breakdowns on Okinawa itself, but the fact that it is a high crime prefecture actually does tend to indicate that is likely a problem among the locals.

And for those that do not know, Okinawa is kind of an interesting place. In many ways it is the "Japanese Hawaii", with large numbers of tourists flocking there from the main islands during the winter. Because even in the winter months, the beaches and water is warm, unlike the much colder conditions on Okinawa. And the people of the Main Islands also tend to look down upon the people of Okinawa. They general stereotype is that they are stupid, ignorant, darker skinned semi-savages, who wear little clothes and have obsessions about turtles.

But knowing that the Japanese themselves tend to view it as a tourist destination, it is not surprising that crime rates are high. They typically are in tourist destinations. Where some of the locals will prey on the tourists, and some tourists will engage in bad behavior, assuming they will be going home before anything bad can happen to them.

And one also must not forget that there are three active Yakuza organizations on the island. And that alone should give an idea what things are like on the islands. As it is a fairly small prefecture, the entire prefecture is about the size of Jacksonville, Florida. However, as there are just under 1.5 million people there mostly crammed into two major cities, the population density is much higher.

That small of an area, yet with three organized crime syndicates all operating there.

 

[Tigerace117]

You read but do not understand.

The US has drawn down. Bases closed. Land given to Okinawa. One example was given of a large swath of land turned into Shopping, etc.

The most recent draw down was planned back in 2012 with planned execution 2024.

MCAS Futenma movement blocked by Okinawa. JAPAN stepped in and overturned Okinawa's objections.

And your "jackboot firmly pressed on the people of Okinawa’s necks" is yet more hyperbole and nonsense.

It is JAPAN that decides whether we leave or stay. And JAPAN isn't as enamored with the Okinawan people.

Okinawa may want the US off the island but it is JAPAN'S island.

I understand your desperate attempts to excuse continued oppression just fine. I also understand that the people of Okinawa have made it repeatedly and explicitly clear in a democratic fashion they have no interest in American troops on their island.

America choosing to ignore that is textbook imperialism, and desperate attempts to handwave away the mass abuse perpetuated over the course of decades by the occupying forces can’t change that.

Japan’s own brutal abuse of the Okinawans renders that sputtering meaningless.

Sounds like America should stop crying about protests from the people it oppresses.

 

[Fledermaus]

I understand your desperate attempts to excuse continued oppression just fine. I also understand that the people of Okinawa have made it repeatedly and explicitly clear in a democratic fashion they have no interest in American troops on their island.

America choosing to ignore that is textbook imperialism, and desperate attempts to handwave away the mass abuse perpetuated over the course of decades by the occupying forces can’t change that.

Japan’s own brutal abuse of the Okinawans renders that sputtering meaningless.

Sounds like America should stop crying about protests from the people it oppresses.

You start out with "continued oppression" and expect people to take you seriously?

Clue.

Try posting without the hyperbole and you might get laughed at less.

No one is sputtering, whining, crying when posting to you. You don't have the power to compel those responses.

And it is JAPAN that decides. Not Okinawa.

 

[Fledermaus]

Well, I already pointed out what it roughly is on a US college campus. And they were over 4 times more likely to be sexually assaulted on a college campus, even with a significant number of the students being females (which is definitely not the case on Okinawa). I could not find any crime breakdowns on Okinawa itself, but the fact that it is a high crime prefecture actually does tend to indicate that is likely a problem among the locals.

And for those that do not know, Okinawa is kind of an interesting place. In many ways it is the "Japanese Hawaii", with large numbers of tourists flocking there from the main islands during the winter. Because even in the winter months, the beaches and water is warm, unlike the much colder conditions on Okinawa. And the people of the Main Islands also tend to look down upon the people of Okinawa. They general stereotype is that they are stupid, ignorant, darker skinned semi-savages, who wear little clothes and have obsessions about turtles.

But knowing that the Japanese themselves tend to view it as a tourist destination, it is not surprising that crime rates are high. They typically are in tourist destinations. Where some of the locals will prey on the tourists, and some tourists will engage in bad behavior, assuming they will be going home before anything bad can happen to them.

And one also must not forget that there are three active Yakuza organizations on the island. And that alone should give an idea what things are like on the islands. As it is a fairly small prefecture, the entire prefecture is about the size of Jacksonville, Florida. However, as there are just under 1.5 million people there mostly crammed into two major cities, the population density is much higher.

That small of an area, yet with three organized crime syndicates all operating there.

I was in Okinawa when the hundredth anniversary of becoming the "final prefecture" happened.

The ceremony was held on the mainland.

And the governor of Okinawa wasn't invited.

 

[Tigerace117]

You start out with "continued oppression" and expect people to take you seriously?

Clue.

Try posting without the hyperbole and you might get laughed at less.

No one is sputtering, whining, crying when posting to you. You don't have the power to compel those responses.

And it is JAPAN that decides. Not Okinawa.

The people of Okinawa have repeatedly— for decades— expressed, democratically, and with a large majority, the desire for the US military to get off their island.

The US military has repeatedly ignored such requests.

Whining “but Okinawa’s colonial overlord is okay with the US military ignoring it” is not, in fact, an excuse.

“Laughter” comign from people who don’t even know basic history, as shown by the attempts to downplay the level of sexual violence faced by Okinawan civilians at Marine hands during the battle, is beyond meaningless.

Hell, Oozlefinch thinks Germany didn’t lose World War One. Gigglefits from people that ignorant, as just stated, carry zero weight.

America’s jackboot being pressed down on the Okinawans can’t be excused by frantic attempts at blame shifting.

The whining from you being forced to face the reality the US military is oppressing Okinawa.....very clearly.

 

[Oozlefinch]

It is JAPAN that decides whether we leave or stay. And JAPAN isn't as enamored with the Okinawan people.

Okinawa may want the US off the island but it is JAPAN'S island.

Japan has never really been "enamored" with the Okinawans. And the Okinawans are not all that thrilled with Japan either. But that goes back even farther, as most likely do not realize that like much of the Japanese Empire outside of the Home Islands, Okinawa was an independent nation with their own culture and language. And Japan spent decades fighting against that and stomping out all "Okinawan Cultural Identity" even before WWII. And the majority of those on the island blamed not the US for the high death rates during the battle, but the Japanese Soldiers.

When I was there in the 1980s, members of the Japanese Military were not even allowed to leave base. There were still a lot of survivors of the Battle of Okinawa, and they still had a huge grudge with the IJA and IJN (and the modern SDF), even over 4 decades later. However, now almost all of that generation is gone so it is not surprising that some of the younger generations are seeing things differently. Especially because Japan is known to highly censor their own history to their citizens.

It is not often you will find Okinawans in Japanese culture. The references are actually pretty rare, with few Okinawan characters in mainstream Japanese media. And about the only time it is brought up, it is so the Mainland characters can visit a "Tropical Island". In fact, almost laughingly one of the few TV shows set on Okinawa was "Stitch!". A localized Japanese version of Disney's Lilo & Stitch franchise where they were relocated from Hawaii to Okinawa. Love Hina also had a female character from Okinawa, with Mitsumi Otohime being so "air headed" that she came across as damned near mentally retarded. And Hajime No Ippo had a returning character that was a boxer from Okinawa named Iwao Shimabukuro, who was as a typical short, brutish, dark skinned person from the island. Who of course was a fisherman before he took up boxing, and was fighting because he wanted to protect the sea.

I often shake my head at the way they are portrayed even in Japanese media. Generally the butt of a joke, still an island of semi-savages that live as fishermen or farmers because nothing of importance comes out of Okinawa. And I would say even worse than how say West Virginia is typically portrayed in US media.

 

[Fledermaus]

The people of Okinawa have repeatedly— for decades— expressed, democratically, and with a large majority, the desire for the US military to get off their island.

The US military has repeatedly ignored such requests.

Whining “but Okinawa’s colonial overlord is okay with the US military ignoring it” is not, in fact, an excuse.

“Laughter” comign from people who don’t even know basic history, as shown by the attempts to downplay the level of sexual violence faced by Okinawan civilians at Marine hands during the battle, is beyond meaningless.

Hell, Oozlefinch thinks Germany didn’t lose World War One. Gigglefits from people that ignorant, as just stated, carry zero weight.

America’s jackboot being pressed down on the Okinawans can’t be excused by frantic attempts at blame shifting.

The whining from you being forced to face the reality the US military is oppressing Okinawa.....very clearly.

The Okinawans can protest to their hearts content.

JAPAN owns the island.

JAPAN decides.

Your hyperbole is laughed at. Heartily.

 

[Fledermaus]

Japan has never really been "enamored" with the Okinawans. And the Okinawans are not all that thrilled with Japan either. But that goes back even farther, as most likely do not realize that like much of the Japanese Empire outside of the Home Islands, Okinawa was an independent nation with their own culture and language. And Japan spent decades fighting against that and stomping out all "Okinawan Cultural Identity" even before WWII. And the majority of those on the island blamed not the US for the high death rates during the battle, but the Japanese Soldiers.

When I was there in the 1980s, members of the Japanese Military were not even allowed to leave base. There were still a lot of survivors of the Battle of Okinawa, and they still had a huge grudge with the IJA and IJN (and the modern SDF), even over 4 decades later. However, now almost all of that generation is gone so it is not surprising that some of the younger generations are seeing things differently. Especially because Japan is known to highly censor their own history to their citizens.

It is not often you will find Okinawans in Japanese culture. The references are actually pretty rare, with few Okinawan characters in mainstream Japanese media. And about the only time it is brought up, it is so the Mainland characters can visit a "Tropical Island". In fact, almost laughingly one of the few TV shows set on Okinawa was "Stitch!". A localized Japanese version of Disney's Lilo & Stitch franchise where they were relocated from Hawaii to Okinawa. Love Hina also had a female character from Okinawa, with Mitsumi Otohime being so "air headed" that she came across as damned near mentally retarded. And Hajime No Ippo had a returning character that was a boxer from Okinawa named Iwao Shimabukuro, who was as a typical short, brutish, dark skinned person from the island. Who of course was a fisherman before he took up boxing, and was fighting because he wanted to protect the sea.

I often shake my head at the way they are portrayed even in Japanese media. Generally the butt of a joke, still an island of semi-savages that live as fishermen or farmers because nothing of importance comes out of Okinawa. And I would say even worse than how say West Virginia is typically portrayed in US media.

I loved living in both Japan and Okinawa.

And yes. Japanese TV was interesting in how they saw things.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I was in Okinawa when the hundredth anniversary of becoming the "final prefecture" happened.

The ceremony was held on the mainland.

And the governor of Okinawa wasn't invited.

And in that, I am actually not surprised.

Unusually, being a diver I spent a lot more time in the "tourist areas" than most servicemembers that were on the island. While most rarely ventured more than a mile outside the main gate, I would often travel to the "tourist beaches" like Maeda, Sunabe, Motobu, and Manzamo Point (commonly called "Toilet Bowl"). And it was easy to see the disdain the tourists would have for the locals. During our surface breaks (especially at Manzamo) we would sometimes talk with the local dive masters and instructors. And the disrespect the tourists would show them often shocked us. With the Dive Masters almost constantly trying to get them out of the water and return to the shore because they had not spent enough time on the surface yet. Or trying to politely tell them not to do things we learned right away. Like not touching the coral, not breaking off pieces of coral for souvenirs, and not trying to take the sea life with them.

About half the time I dove on really the only two dive spots for us on the island (Kadena Seawall and Camp Schwab), but the other half I would go to other parts of the island. And seeing how the "Japanese" behaved like almost any other tourist was one of the first times I realized how much of their "manners" was a façade.

 

[Tigerace117]

The Okinawans can protest to their hearts content.

JAPAN owns the island.

JAPAN decides.

Your hyperbole is laughed at. Heartily.

You don’t get to cry about “freedom” when you proudly ignore the repeatedly stated democratic wishes of people whose land you occupy.

AMERICANS abused the Okinawans right up until the present.

AMERICANS don’t get to whine when they are described as oppressors for doing so.

As already established, sniveling “but their colonial overlord says it’s okay” is not an excuse.

Mindless gigglefits from those who have heartily demonstrated their historical ignorance mean nothing.

 

[Fledermaus]

And in that, I am actually not surprised.

Unusually, being a diver I spent a lot more time in the "tourist areas" than most servicemembers that were on the island. While most rarely ventured more than a mile outside the main gate, I would often travel to the "tourist beaches" like Maeda, Sunabe, Motobu, and Manzamo Point (commonly called "Toilet Bowl"). And it was easy to see the disdain the tourists would have for the locals. During our surface breaks (especially at Manzamo) we would sometimes talk with the local dive masters and instructors. And the disrespect the tourists would show them often shocked us. With the Dive Masters almost constantly trying to get them out of the water and return to the shore because they had not spent enough time on the surface yet. Or trying to politely tell them not to do things we learned right away. Like not touching the coral, not breaking off pieces of coral for souvenirs, and not trying to take the sea life with them.

About half the time I dove on really the only two dive spots for us on the island (Kadena Seawall and Camp Schwab), but the other half I would go to other parts of the island. And seeing how the "Japanese" behaved like almost any other tourist was one of the first times I realized how much of their "manners" was a façade.

I would walk from MCAS Futenma to Kadena AFB occasionally. I bicycled all over the southern part of the island checking out castles. Some lovingly restored. Others mere rubble. I visited the tomb of the first Ryukuan king.... Tucked away in someone's back yard. And not once was I in danger. I was able to pedal down to Naha for the giant tug of war. That was a spectacular event.

 

[Fledermaus]

You don’t get to cry about “freedom” when you proudly ignore the repeatedly stated democratic wishes of people whose land you occupy.

AMERICANS abused the Okinawans right up until the present.

AMERICANS don’t get to whine when they are described as oppressors for doing so.

As already established, sniveling “but their colonial overlord says it’s okay” is not an excuse.

Mindless gigglefits from those who have heartily demonstrated their historical ignorance mean nothing.

You said something?

I couldn't make it out because of all the hyperbole.