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US Looks Really Screwed up from the Outside Looking in

Redress said:
So how is that alcoholism problem in Canada going?
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Other than in the Native and Inuit communities, I'm unaware of Canada's alcoholism problem.

Just a reminder, this thread is about American politics, but I do appreciate the attempt to change the subject.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Just looking at the political climate in the US these days, people like me on the outside are wondering what the hell's in the water there and when is the insanity going to stop?
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Hell's bells. Normal people here on the inside are wondering the same damn thing. :mrgreen:
 
CanadaJohn said:
Rest his soul - perhaps the best Mayor Toronto has ever had. Hundreds of thousands marched from City Hall to the Cathedral, through the streets of Toronto, to his funeral and fondly remembered the man as a terrific person - flawed, no doubt - but a true servant of the people. He spent countless hours in social housing ghettos visiting with the residents and ensuring that they got their buildings properly maintained and cleaned. He gave out his direct office line at City Hall as well as his home phone number and cellphone number and responded to all constituent calls and helped them with their problems/concerns.

Sure, there were political opponents, both on Council and in the media, who hated the man because he was so loved and so good at storefront politics. He was a rich man who never acted like it - generous to a fault. Liberals hated him because he refused to spend taxpayer dollars and funded his needs out of his own pocket. If he travelled on city business, he covered the cost. To give you an idea of how liberals hated him, his liberal colleagues on council had him investigated for conflict of interest because he wrote a letter, on city letterhead, and raised $3000 for a neighbourhood football team that needed money for uniforms and supplies. They hated the fact that Mayor Ford constantly brought to the attention of the media and the public the trough feeders on council who wasted taxpayer dollars on themselves and their egos and they hated the man for it.

Mayor Ford was a great man and this world would be a far greater place if all politicians, or even many more, where half the person he was.
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Greetings, CJ. :2wave:

Great tribute from you, CJ! :thumbs: It sounds as if he lived up to his own personal conscience in spite of those attacking him, and it's unfortunate that sort of thing has become so rare these days! RIP Honorable Mr. Rob Ford. :peace:
 
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CanadaJohn said:
Just looking at the political climate in the US these days, people like me on the outside are wondering what the hell's in the water there and when is the insanity going to stop?

Some issues of note:

1. Two Presidential candidates that everyone seems to pretty much hate and nobody wants as President.

2. A Supreme Court that is totally dysfunctional, unable to honor their oaths of office because too many believe they have a higher obligation to ideology and thus all votes are deadlocked and nothing is settled.

3. An obsession with guns and gun violence that never ceases and each side on the political spectrum use the issue to pander to their followers with nothing gained.

4. An adolescent Congress where grown men and women sit on the floor in a hissy fit because they lack the power to force others to their will on an issue where there is no consensus in the general public for any particular action.

There are others, but that should set the tone.

To my friends in America, aren't you a little embarrassed by what is happening in your great country??
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Glad I moved to Canada, lol... let's just put it that way. And the more Americans who think that Canada sucks, the better.

I left the U.S. in the early 2000's after what went down with Bush because I knew it would just get worse. Low and behold, it has. I still love the people and many places, but the politics are a powder keg right now and there's no sign it'll get better. Don't want to be within U.S. borders when SHTF.

And yeah, Trudeau is a clown... would still prefer the Candian gov and its small time political problems (like elbowing other MPs, lolol) over what's going on down south. Any day.
 
Removable Mind said:
You won't get it from me. Got a spare room? Besides, this South Central Texas heat, mixed with the gulf air mass that brings in buckets of humidity, is cranking up pretty good for this time of year. :lol:
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Actually it happens every year. That's why we call it Junurary. Since yesterday morning it snowed at higher elevations on the north shore, hailed here at sea level, rained, a wind storm and now it's quite tropical. All of the seasons and never leave home
 
Northern Light said:
Glad I moved to Canada, lol... let's just put it that way. And the more Americans who think that Canada sucks, the better.

I left the U.S. in the early 2000's after what went down with Bush because I knew it would just get worse. Low and behold, it has. I still love the people and many places, but the politics are a powder keg right now and there's no sign it'll get better. Don't want to be within U.S. borders when SHTF.

And yeah, Trudeau is a clown... would still prefer the Candian gov and its small time political problems (like elbowing other MPs, lolol) over what's going on down south. Any day.
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We'll trade Hillary and Trump for Trudeau.

Think about it - you'll also get Bill in the trade.
 
Northern Light said:
Glad I moved to Canada, lol... let's just put it that way. And the more Americans who think that Canada sucks, the better.

I left the U.S. in the early 2000's after what went down with Bush because I knew it would just get worse. Low and behold, it has. I still love the people and many places, but the politics are a powder keg right now and there's no sign it'll get better. Don't want to be within U.S. borders when SHTF.

And yeah, Trudeau is a clown... would still prefer the Candian gov and its small time political problems (like elbowing other MPs, lolol) over what's going on down south. Any day.
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thank you for leaving.
 
blaxshep said:
What you are seeing is an internal struggle between people that want America to be America and love the constitution against the liberals that hate America and the constitution and want us to be converted into a utopia like they have in Venezuela.
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This is an excellent example of the polarity that conservatives have helped caused in this nation. Disagree and you hate America. It's comments like this that show why change rarely happens.
 
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PeteEU said:
Yes, the crazies got excuses to do even more crazy things..

The 2000 election was the end of the myth that the US was the defender of democracy... the whole world saw it and the respect for the US went out the window.
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the 'grand experiment' was only a slight improvement on despotism and only for land-owning white men. The myth should've never taken off, and 2000 was certainly not the first time the electoral college triumphed over the popular vote. There's even been worse, like the congress decided the presidency in favor of jefferson when the electoral college was tied

really the only thing to say about the american system of government is it persists. That is a pathetic justification for a senator's salary and power, but i have also seen true democracy (we have "ballot initiatives" galore) as a weapon of oppression. Trust me, the tyrannical uninformed majority is not a superior method
 
chromium said:
the 'grand experiment' was only a slight improvement on despotism and only for land-owning white men. The myth should've never taken off, and 2000 was certainly not the first time the electoral college triumphed over the popular vote. There's even been worse, like the congress decided the presidency in favor of jefferson when the electoral college was tied
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Yes but back then the US was no democracy and was irrelevant on the world scene.. so no one cared.

really the only thing to say about the american system of government is it persists. That is a pathetic justification for a senator's salary and power, but i have also seen true democracy (we have "ballot initiatives" galore) as a weapon of oppression. Trust me, the tyrannical uninformed majority is not a superior method
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Oh I dont disagree at all.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
This is an excellent example of the polarity that conservatives have caused in this nation. Disagree and you hate America. It's comments like this that show why change rarely happens.
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conservatives tend to not want change so they've no reason to care about your attempts to shame them. Just as liberals, not being nationalistic simpletons, should only laugh at accusations that they hate america

simply have to beat the conservatives and watch them squirm after change is accomplished. Appeal to the so-called undecideds
 
chromium said:
conservatives tend to not want change so they've no reason to care about your attempts to shame them. Just as liberals, not being nationalistic simpletons, should only laugh at accusations that they hate america

simply have to beat the conservatives and watch them squirm after change is accomplished. Appeal to the so-called undecideds
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I'm not really trying to appeal to anyone. I'm just pointing out silly partisan hackery as an example of the problems this country faces. I understand that no conservative hack... or liberal hack for that matter is really going to attend to the message... that political hackery in all forms is what has caused the ills of this country probably dating back to the Clinton Presidency... if not the Adams Presidency. My intent is just to point it out so those who do so can be identified. They'll continue doing it, but their identification will make it easier for others to just ignore.
 
Hypothetical said:
What would you, an outsider, recommend as solutions? I am interested to hear your opinion.

EDIT: as far as the candidates... I can tell you that the reason we have Trump and that Bernie Sanders almost had a chance , is because a LOT of people are tired of politics as usual... at least imho.
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As another outsider, I'd recommend voting for a third party; especially one which promotes electoral reforms to mitigate such an absolute duopoly.

Both the hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil attitude and the mind-numbing polarisation of issues like gun control are symptoms, I'd guess.
 
chromium said:
conservatives tend to not want change so they've no reason to care about your attempts to shame them. Just as liberals, not being nationalistic simpletons, should only laugh at accusations that they hate america

simply have to beat the conservatives and watch them squirm after change is accomplished. Appeal to the so-called undecideds
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See.... that is the problem with making blanket statements like you did here. It makes no sense to lump all conservatives into one pile because we are made up up splinter groups just like the liberals are. There are fiscal conservatives who could could sway either way on social issues...... like abortion, bathrooms and gay marriage. There are Constitutional conservatives that want the actions of all politicians to fall in line with the guidelines of the original documents.....and if anything, they fall inline with many social issues. There are Evangelical conservatives and they tend to believe that the liberals are always attacking them.......whether it is real or perceived doesn't really matter to me. They obviously, are against gay marriage. There are a few lesser groups that I could throw in but I think you get my point.
 
PeteEU said:
Yes but back then the US was no democracy and was irrelevant on the world scene.. so no one cared.



Oh I dont disagree at all.
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when was it ever a democracy? Not in 1996 when the same nightmare of hanging chads and electoral votes and the supreme court voting along party lines could've just as easily happened. The supreme court has been hyper partisan since 1970s. That's why every judge today has 90%+ agreement with 3 others and why so many decisions are 4-4

before that the struggle to register black voters was bloody indeed
 
CanadaJohn said:
Just looking at the political climate in the US these days, people like me on the outside are wondering what the hell's in the water there and when is the insanity going to stop?

Some issues of note:

1. Two Presidential candidates that everyone seems to pretty much hate and nobody wants as President.

2. A Supreme Court that is totally dysfunctional, unable to honor their oaths of office because too many believe they have a higher obligation to ideology and thus all votes are deadlocked and nothing is settled.

3. An obsession with guns and gun violence that never ceases and each side on the political spectrum use the issue to pander to their followers with nothing gained.

4. An adolescent Congress where grown men and women sit on the floor in a hissy fit because they lack the power to force others to their will on an issue where there is no consensus in the general public for any particular action.

There are others, but that should set the tone.

To my friends in America, aren't you a little embarrassed by what is happening in your great country??
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I'm practically in mourning. Paraphrased, " Give me one generation, and I can change the world." It's always been taken as a warning because of the man who said it. I think that generation has been born.
 
blaxshep said:
What you are seeing is an internal struggle between people that want America to be America and love the constitution against the liberals that hate America and the constitution and want us to be converted into a utopia like they have in Venezuela.
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I'll give you this much- you've pretty well illustrated the problem.
 
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