US guns are being aimed at Palestinian kids. Washington can take them away

[oneworld2]

But history shows otherwise -it was Jewish lands, the Jews bought the land in 1927 when it was just sand and rocks(*), and then got attacked and expelled by arabs.
Summary :
1. Group of Jews bought land which is just sand and rocks in 1927. Two years later the got expelled by arabs.
2. In the early 1930 they bought the land again and rebuilt it the land. Couple of years later they were executed by arabs.
3. in 1943 they returned again and rebuilt the land. Couple of years later got expelled and muredered.
4. Then after the 1967 war they return to the land they bought and got expelled many times before.It was their land.

Jews owned less than 8% of the land when the Partition Plan was agreed. When it comes to who has been ripped off from owning and haning on to land the Palestinians massively out do Jews. All of your dates precede the 48-49 war and so have no relevance in the territorial makeup after it. After the war Israel owned 78% of the partition plan territory. After that war Plastine was both occupied by Jordan and under Egyptian administration. Any Jewish claims to land in what didn't become Israel died along with those of the Palestinians. To try to peddle this junk is ridiculous. Everything built by Israel in territory not part of the Israeli state is illegal, end of.

you talking about stage 2, and even if I agree with your ridiculous claim, the Jews already bought the land in 1927.
So you wrong.

I was talking about that stage because that was the context being discussed before you shifted the goal posts. Regardless, ALL Israeli settlements built in the OPTs ,along with the Golan and at the time, the Sinai aree/were illegal. So, no, I'm not wrong.

Everything else in your post was based on the false presumption of ownership. The settlements are illegal. The Israeli govt advisors said so at the time but the annexation process continued with the full knowledge that it was and remains illegal

 

[oneworld2]

They are aggressors. And the ones who murder are murderers.
If you go outside of your house find a 5 year old girl and murder her, you're a murderer, no one cares if you claim that you are a victim for some bogus reasoning.
Your pro murder opinions carry no logic.

Nope, you cannot accept that Zionism, and the state of Israel that was spawned from it ,were/are the original aggressors. Whatever has happened since doesn't change that and never will.

You are talking to yourself and ignoring what others are saying to you because you have dug yourself a hole again. I have stated on numerous occassions already that the murder of children is a crime, regardless of who does it. You focus on it only when Palestinians are guilty of it and have tried to portray it as self defence when the IDF have done it. It's just obvious hypocrisy.

 

[Apocalypse]

Nope, you cannot accept that Zionism, and the state of Israel that was spawned from it ,were/are the original aggressors. Whatever has happened since doesn't change that and never will.

You are talking to yourself and ignoring what others are saying to you because you have dug yourself a hole again. I have stated on numerous occassions already that the murder of children is a crime, regardless of who does it. You focus on it only when Palestinians are guilty of it and have tried to portray it as self defence when the IDF have done it. It's just obvious hypocrisy.

If you murder a little girl no one cares if you claim to be a victim for a made up reason and calling others "the original aggressors", you're still just a murderer.

 

[oneworld2]

The West Bank is a territory and one that is part of the Jewish homeland. That is an indisputable historical fact.

Nope, it remains Occupied Palestinian Territory, recognized by the entire world except for Israel and maybe some radical and ignorant Americans

I'll ask again since each of your diversions only serve to expose the propaganda - how many Palestinians have been killed in 2020 that you claim Palestinians are "being killed in droves"?

The propaganda is by trying to focus on a sparser year so as to create a false impression.

Three times more Palestinian kids were killed by live rounds fired by IDF in a 7 year period than were Israelis and foreign nationals killed by rocket attacks over a 10 year period

Palestinians are obviously losing the propaganda war

 

[Apocalypse]

Nope, it remains Occupied Palestinian Territory, recognized by the entire world except for Israel and maybe some radical and ignorant Americans


The propaganda is by trying to focus on a sparser year so as to create a false impression.

Three times more Palestinian kids were killed by live rounds fired by IDF in a 7 year period than were Israelis and foreign nationals killed by rocket attacks over a 10 year period

Palestinians are obviously losing the propaganda war

"Palestinians are being killed in droves" would suggest they're being killed in droves right?
How many died today? Yesterday? This week so far? December? 2020??
3 of them? 4 of them?
To claim they are "being killed in droves" is just empty propaganda then.

The West Bank isn't part of any sovereign nation, that, again, is a fact.
Facts differ from opinions. An example for an opinion would be to say that the West Bank is a sovereign Palestinian territory. That is not a fact.

 

[oneworld2]

If you murder a little girl no one cares if you claim to be a victim for a made up reason and calling others "the original aggressors", you're still just a murderer.

Their victimhood is not " made up " but your own is when it comes to Israel/Palestine.

If you murder a child you are a murderer, no contention here. What the problem id that when a Palestinian does it you cry murder, if an Israeli does it you cry self defence. Thus it is your own position that closely resembles the " pro murder " trope you have been peddling

 

[Apocalypse]

Their victimhood is not " made up " but your own is when it comes to Israel/Palestine.

If you murder a child you are a murderer, no contention here. What the problem id that when a Palestinian does it you cry murder, if an Israeli does it you cry self defence. Thus it is your own position that closely resembles the " pro murder " trope you have been peddling

It certainly is made up but that's not the point.
The point here is you insisting on calling those of them who murder, "victims".
If you go outside your house and murder a little girl, who cares what you'd claim about how you're a victim of some imaginary original aggressor?

 

[oneworld2]

"Palestinians are being killed in droves" would suggest they're being killed in droves right?
How many died today? Yesterday? This week so far? December? 2020??
3 of them? 4 of them?
To claim they are "being killed in droves" is just empty propaganda then.

I gave you some stats and I explained why Israel is winning the propaganda war. You know what you are doing and so do I. You are trying to set parameters that hide the fact that Palestinians have been killed in droves on many occasions during the conflict. That's the true art of propaganda and I can only defer to your superiority at peddling it.

The West Bank isn't part of any sovereign nation, that, again, is a fact.
Facts differ from opinions. An example for an opinion would be to say that the West Bank is a sovereign Palestinian territory. That is not a fact.

I said it is part of the Palestinian state which as yet has no attained full sovereignty, that doesn't mean Israeli claims to it have any basis in the law. That's why nobody supports the illegal attempts at annexation

 

[oneworld2]

It certainly is made up but that's not the point.

No it's not, it's just a point you lose. Before Zionism and Israel there was no Israel/Palestine conflict. Jews emmigrating to Palestine with a goal of displacing and dispossessing the locals is the original aggression. Fact.

The point here is you insisting on calling those of them who murder, "victims".

The two are not mutually exclusive. You can be both victim and perpetrator. That you only see murder when a Palestinian does it is enlightening and rubbishes your claim to be morally superior

 

[Apocalypse]

I gave you some stats and I explained why Israel is winning the propaganda war. You know what you are doing and so do I. You are trying to set parameters that hide the fact that Palestinians have been killed in droves on many occasions during the conflict. That's the true art of propaganda and I can only defer to your superiority at peddling it.


I said it is part of the Palestinian state which as yet has no attained full sovereignty, that doesn't mean Israeli claims to it have any basis in the law. That's why nobody supports the illegal attempts at annexation

You said they "are being killed in droves", next time you'll call it a genocide. That's how propaganda campaigns make use of explosive terms to forward their independent-from-reality accusations.

The West Bank is not part of any sovereign state and hence the comparison with America is stupid.

 

[Apocalypse]

No it's not, it's just a point you lose. Before Zionism and Israel there was no Israel/Palestine conflict. Jews emmigrating to Palestine with a goal of displacing and dispossessing the locals is the original aggression. Fact.



The two are not mutually exclusive. You can be both victim and perpetrator. That you only see murder when a Palestinian does it is enlightening and rubbishes your claim to be morally superior

No you cannot be a victim when you murder people, you can only be a murderer, and that is something that you do not seem to understand.
Egypt attacking Israel and trying to destroy it on the day it was formed doesn't grant today the right to any average Israeli to grab a knife and stab a random Egyptian girl to death and doesn't make him a victim as he murders her.
Likewise, your Palestinian hero doesn't get to be a victim when he murders an innocent Jewish girl. He's a murderer.

 

[oneworld2]

No you cannot be a victim when you murder people, you can only be a murderer, and that is something that you do not seem to understand.
Egypt attacking Israel and trying to destroy it on the day it was formed doesn't grant today the right to any average Israeli to grab a knife and stab a random Egyptian girl to death and doesn't make him a victim as he murders her.
Likewise, your Palestinian hero doesn't get to be a victim when he murders an innocent Jewish girl. He's a murderer.

Your examples are getting more and more ridiculous as your arguments are getting debunked

You can be the victim of an ongoing repressive, abusive and violent occupation and still be the perpetrator of a crime. That you don't seem to understand this is pretty ridiculous tbh.

 

[oneworld2]

You said they "are being killed in droves", next time you'll call it a genocide. That's how propaganda campaigns make use of explosive terms to forward their independent-from-reality accusations.

Ive been posting here for a few years now and I can't recall me referring to events as a " genocide". There is a more accurate term but it is against the rules of the forum to state it, I'm sure you know what it is and why it's accurate.

Compared to the deaths of Israelis they are most definitely being killed in droves but that doesn't bother you because it's Palestinian lives being lost.

I made the comparison between the deaths of children killed by live fire rounds fired by IDF people and how they dwarf those killed by rockets from Gaza over a 1/3 longer period. Isrel is winning the propaganda war so your complaints are pretty much small potatoes.

The West Bank is not part of any sovereign state and hence the comparison with America is stupid.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn't have to be for people to understand the situation which is the actual point.

 

[Apocalypse]

Ive been posting here for a few years now and I can't recall me referring to events as a " genocide". There is a more accurate term but it is against the rules of the forum to state it, I'm sure you know what it is and why it's accurate.

Compared to the deaths of Israelis they are most definitely being killed in droves but that doesn't bother you because it's Palestinian lives being lost.

I made the comparison between the deaths of children killed by live fire rounds fired by IDF people and how they dwarf those killed by rockets from Gaza over a 1/3 longer period. Isrel is winning the propaganda war so your complaints are pretty much small potatoes.

The West Bank is not part of any sovereign state and hence the comparison with America is stupid.

It doesn't have to be for people to understand the situation which is the actual point.

No one claimed Israelis are killed in droves. You did claim Palestinians are being killed in droves.
Using explosive terms such as this one and the other one you were hinting at here that are completely independent from reality are key elements in propaganda 101.

 

[oneworld2]

No one claimed Israelis are killed in droves. You did claim Palestinians are being killed in droves.
Using explosive terms such as this one and the other one you were hinting at here that are completely independent from reality are key elements in propaganda 101.

No one has to, in comparison to Israelis the Palestinians are being killed in droves. That's just the reality, nothing propagandistic at all in it.

Oh please, lol, like you can try to lecture any here on the usage of " explosive terms" and/or the attempted spreading of propaganda. The poster who has resorted to the hypothetical murder of a 5 YO Jewish girl but has absolutely no comment about the reality of 150 odd Palestinian children that have been murdered/killed by the the IDF in live fire situations alone over the past 7 years.

 

[Apocalypse]

No one has to, in comparison to Israelis the Palestinians are being killed in droves. That's just the reality, nothing propagandistic at all in it.

Oh please, lol, like you can try to lecture any here on the usage of " explosive terms" and/or the attempted spreading of propaganda. The poster who has resorted to the hypothetical murder of a 5 YO Jewish girl but has absolutely no comment about the reality of 150 odd Palestinian children that have been murdered/killed by the the IDF in live fire situations alone over the past 7 years.

I am lecturing you on the usage of explosive terms.
Saying Palestinians are being killed in droves is propaganda 101 and you failed to make a case in your defense here.

 

[oneworld2]

I am lecturing you on the usage of explosive terms.

]

I know and I'm telling you that you are not in a position to.

Saying Palestinians are being killed in droves is propaganda 101 and you failed to make a case in your defense here.

Nope, compared to the deaths of Israeli citizens they are being killed in droves. I gave you the stats for the number of Palestinian childen killed by live fire rounds by the IDF in a 7 year period and compared that to those killed by rocket fire from Gaza over a 10 year period. The difference in coverage and scale shows that Israel is winning the propaganda war.

 

[Apocalypse]

]

I know and I'm telling you that you are not in a position to.



Nope, compared to the deaths of Israeli citizens they are being killed in droves. I gave you the stats for the number of Palestinian childen killed by live fire rounds by the IDF in a 7 year period and compared that to those killed by rocket fire from Gaza over a 10 year period. The difference in coverage and scale shows that Israel is winning the propaganda war.

Clearly I am in that position.
You said "they are being killed in droves".
How many died today? How many died yesterday?
In the entire past year? 3? 4?
That is not "being killed in droves", your statement is far from reality and is merely empty propaganda trying to use explosive terms to make your slander more meaningful to you. It's a waste of time.

 

[Fledermaus]

Clearly I am in that position.
You said "they are being killed in droves".
How many died today? How many died yesterday?
In the entire past year? 3? 4?
That is not "being killed in droves", your statement is far from reality and is merely empty propaganda trying to use explosive terms to make your slander more meaningful to you. It's a waste of time.

I got to the point of simply ignoring oneworld2's hyperbole and inflammatory speech unless it broke the irony meter.

One loses credibility when one makes mountains out of mole hills.

 

[NO1]

Judaism isn't a nation. Many who are followers of Judaism are passionately opposed to the Jewish state. You might think you speak for all Jewish people but you don't. Hysterical!!

Palestinian propaganda. You just parroting PLO narrative. There are people which their nationality is Jewish (member of the Jewish people) but they are not religious at all .

Awni Abd al-Hadi never accepted the British/French division of the Arab lands and THAT is the context with which to view his comment to the Peel Commission. He thought that Palestinians should be enjoying self rule as part of Syria and thus in that context his words are easily understood. Knowing that it also becomes obvious that your misrepresentation of them as some sort of denial of the territorial reality of Palestine and Palestinians is just a cheap propaganda trick aimed to decieve.

He thought that Arabs should be under Arab rule – Syria. He was against the term Palestinian because he saw himself part of big Syria, as he said – “There is no such country [as Palestine].... Palestine is a term the Zionists invented.... Our country was for centuries part of Syria.".

If you have the full testimony please share.

 

[oneworld2]

Clearly I am in that position.
You said "they are being killed in droves".
How many died today? How many died yesterday?
In the entire past year? 3? 4?
That is not "being killed in droves", your statement is far from reality and is merely empty propaganda trying to use explosive terms to make your slander more meaningful to you. It's a waste of time.

Obviously you are not.

You refer to a hypothetical killing of a child and ignore the mass killings of real children over a 7 year period because of the ethnicity of the children involved.

 

[NO1]

Your claim was that the occupation would have been short had the Palestinians sued for an agreement. I cited the instant building of illegal settlements as a rubbisher for that claim, which it clearly is, bearing in mind the Israeli reasoning for attacking it's Arab neighbours.

You wrong again, key part in discussion is to read what actually been told to you, re-read my post and you will see my claim was as I said- it Palestinian propaganda, it a Jewish land which bought already in 1927.

The fact remains that, no matter who had once owned/developed that piece of land , it now was outside of the state of Israel and was the first illegal settlement built after the 67 war.

That's not propaganda, thatis the facts of the matter.

The only fact that remains is your propaganda, you said it was Palestinian land while the history shows the land were bought by Jews in 1927, and they were expelled and murdered.

You tried to shift the goal posts from one claim to another when the first one was shown to be hogwash propaganda.

You just wrong. You should read the posts your are replaying to, that’s basic.

 

[oneworld2]

Palestinian propaganda. You just parroting PLO narrative. There are people which their nationality is Jewish (member of the Jewish people) but they are not religious at all .

Nope, the rejection of Israeli hasbara.

Judaism is a religion whereas Israel is a state, and a state that not all of those who practice Judaism think should even exist. It's hysterical to see how you lump all Jewish people into your preferred narrative even without their permission and against their beliefs.

 

[NO1]

Clearly I am in that position.
You said "they are being killed in droves".
How many died today? How many died yesterday?
In the entire past year? 3? 4?
That is not "being killed in droves", your statement is far from reality and is merely empty propaganda trying to use explosive terms to make your slander more meaningful to you. It's a waste of time.

Pure Propaganda.

 

[NO1]

Jews owned less than 8% of the land when the Partition Plan was agreed. When it comes to who has been ripped off from owning and haning on to land the Palestinians massively out do Jews. All of your dates precede the 48-49 war and so have no relevance in the territorial makeup after it. After the war Israel owned 78% of the partition plan territory. After that war Plastine was both occupied by Jordan and under Egyptian administration. Any Jewish claims to land in what didn't become Israel died along with those of the Palestinians. To try to peddle this junk is ridiculous. Everything built by Israel in territory not part of the Israeli state is illegal, end of.

I was talking about that stage because that was the context being discussed before you shifted the goal posts. Regardless, ALL Israeli settlements built in the OPTs ,along with the Golan and at the time, the Sinai aree/were illegal. So, no, I'm not wrong.

Everything else in your post was based on the false presumption of ownership. The settlements are illegal. The Israeli govt advisors said so at the time but the annexation process continued with the full knowledge that it was and remains illegal

Again you are off the point.
The Jews bought lands at that time by law, you can’t ignore it.

Once again you wrong, re-read my post.

The Jewish people are the only ones who have rights to lands of Judea and Samaria. The Palestinians never owned those lands at any point of time.