US finalizing plans to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine, US officials say

[MTAtech]

 

[bave]

Abrams tanks are shipped by what means? By air, by sea? Given their weight, 60-80 tons, I would think by ship would be more realistic.

That raises a question, If we are to supply top drawer armor to Ukraine, is the armor fair game on the trip over?

Logistical supply lines for a war have always been fair game by any metric.

These M1's won't be meaningfully operable for at least a year. There are *zero* Abrams support facilities or trained personnel in all of Europe.

 

[Rexedgar]

Logistical supply lines for a war have always been fair game by any metric.

These M1's won't be meaningfully operable for at least a year. There are *zero* Abrams support facilities or trained personnel in all of Europe.

I’m looking through a smaller tunnel. What if Russia preemptively sinks a ship full of Abrams tanks?

 

[TomFitz]

That doesn't mean they preferred them, that's how our primary system works. We generally get to choose between one party from each person when it gets to a general ballot. That means in most cases these people got elected because it was either them, or someone from the other party. So you end up picking your poison.



Right, and before that a lot of people thought Trump was illegitimate. People are going to say things when they don't like the outcomes. If you don't think underhanded stuff happens in western elections, you're nuts.



That's why I am saying we should change it. We have spent 2x what all of the EU has in Ukraine despite it being an EU problem. Europe is no longer a material part of America's strategic interest. It is no longer in our interests to spend tens of billions a year stationing troops and assets in a region of the world that is set to become less relevant for decades to come.

“
That doesn't mean they preferred them, that's how our primary system works. We generally get to choose between one party from each person when it gets to a general ballot. That means in most cases these people got elected because it was either them, or someone from the other party. So you end up picking your poison.”

Which is how we got trump. He never once won a majority in any primary he ran in. But he was the plurality candidate in every race, so he got all the delegates even though he didn’t even get 50% of the vote.

“Right, and before that a lot of people thought Trump was illegitimate. People are going to say things when they don't like the outcomes. If you don't think underhanded stuff happens in western elections, you're nuts.”

Saying that a lot of people thought trump was illegitate is meaningless. Trump was never qualified to hold any position of public trust. He was a poor businessman, a weak leader, a wannabe, not too smart, and obsessed with himself and almost nothing else.

None the less, there was no plot to nullify and election, and no mob. Your equivency is obviously false (again).

”That's why I am saying we should change it. We have spent 2x what all of the EU has in Ukraine despite it being an EU problem. Europe is no longer a material part of America's strategic interest. It is no longer in our interests to spend tens of billions a year stationing troops and assets in a region of the world that is set to become less relevant for decades to come.”

Isolationism didn’t work the last time, and it won’t work this time. The US committed itself to the Atlantic Alliance in 1941, and NATO and the EU are the results of it.

The great powers of the modern world are NATO (the US and Western Europe), China and Russia (which is flunking out).

Putin launched his war in Ukraine because he calculated that isolationists like you and your late beloved fuhrer would not step up. And that, as a consequence, the NATO alliance would crumble.

Those have been Russian foreign policy objectives since 1949.

And you’re arguing that we should just hand it to him. Of course, you loser of a leader, trump, wanted to do just that.

He endorsed Putin’s war.

 

[yankintx]

and yes, Moscow and its cuckold are gonna hate, so what ? 1% of the world economy without chances against us
30 Abrams as far as I know

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Poised to Provide Abrams Tanks to Ukraine

An announcement of tank deliveries could come this week, U.S. officials said, part of an understanding with Germany in which Berlin would agree to send its own Leopard 2 tanks.

www.wsj.com

And there is not a damn thing Putin can do about it. Send Tanks and Patriot missiles I say.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

US finalizing plans to send approximately 30 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, two US officials say | CNN Politics

The US is finalizing plans to send approximately 30 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, two US officials familiar with the deliberations told CNN.

edition.cnn.com

Thank you, President Biden. Looks like theyre calling the German bluff. I wonder what herr Scholtz will say now?

The Germans have already said that they will not enforce the contractual terms of the sales of their Leopard tanks that restrict the purchasers from letting third parties have them.

The "ideal situation" would be for the US government to "lend-lease" the tanks to Ukraine so that the Ukrainian Army can conduct "interoperability training" with them. If the Ukrainians don't return the tanks in the same condition that they received them then they can pay for the repairs/replacements under whatever terms they can negotiate. Of course, if the Ukrainians decided that the best way of conducting that "interoperability training" was to engage in live fire exercises that would be a purely internal matter and of no concern whatsoever of the US government who had NOT "armed the Ukrainians" at all.

 

[Tigerace117]

US finalizing plans to send approximately 30 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, two US officials say | CNN Politics

The US is finalizing plans to send approximately 30 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, two US officials familiar with the deliberations told CNN.

edition.cnn.com

Thank you, President Biden. Looks like theyre calling the German bluff. I wonder what herr Scholtz will say now?

Yawn. All those burning Saudi Abrams in Yemen show how very vulnerable they can be.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCIDe-tSZ4_wCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice

 

[bave]

I’m looking through a smaller tunnel. What if Russia preemptively sinks a ship full of Abrams tanks?

Lusitania, a classic example. The US Government lied their asses off. We told the people that it was an innocent ship carrying passengers. In reality it was a ship stuffed with war material. If a Russian sub popped a US logistics ship at sea, who knows what happens, it isn't good and that's a risk from this entire bag of stupid over there. I often ask people what they want to see happen in Ukraine. They don't know realistically because if they push so hard as to create an existential threat to the Russian government, then you end up with a very good chance of radioactive consequences.

Which is how we got trump. He never once won a majority in any primary he ran in. But he was the plurality candidate in every race, so he got all the delegates even though he didn’t even get 50% of the vote.

That's my point precisely. Combined with the fact that primaries often only consider the most extreme members of a party.

None the less, there was no plot to nullify and election, and no mob. Your equivency is obviously false (again).

Really? You might want to revisit some quotes from Dems after Trump beat Hillary. HRC herself stated Trump was "illegitimate" because of the popular vote outcome. I never said it was equivalent, but the idea that only one side screams foul is rather comical.

Isolationism didn’t work the last time, and it won’t work this time. The US committed itself to the Atlantic Alliance in 1941, and NATO and the EU are the results of it.

It was in our interests then, it is not now. The Soviets were a threat at that point, they are no longer. Europe, as a whole, is now a liability more than an ally. Germany is largely playing for the other team. France and Italy don't even participate. UK tries its best but is too small to matter alone. The rest of them are sideliners. What happens in Europe is almost entirely irrelevant to the US at this point. They are parasitic trading partners and military liabilities, both of which are also declining as well. 'Splain me the value there for us?

The great powers of the modern world are NATO (the US and Western Europe), China and Russia (which is flunking out).

LOL Nato. Pull the US out of NATO and it is a joke. Germany can field 3 combat brigades and less than two dozen combat aircraft. France is slightly better. The US Navy alone could mop the floor with the armed forces of the EU.

Putin launched his war in Ukraine because he calculated that isolationists like you and your late beloved fuhrer would not step up. And that, as a consequence, the NATO alliance would crumble.

My fuhrer? I am German, or you somehow trying to make me a Trump fan? Either way, you are just lying again. I would point out that Putin didn't invade Ukraine during Trump's regime. Moreover, I would point out *why* Putin is in Ukraine and that largely falls on two Democratic administration decisions.

Those have been Russian foreign policy objectives since 1949.

Neat. Russia no longer has the conventional military might to achieve them. Moreover, the EU has 16x the economy and 3x the population. In a conventional war even the EU can mop the floor with Russia.

And you’re arguing that we should just hand it to him. Of course, you loser of a leader, trump, wanted to do just that.

He endorsed Putin’s war.

Do you read often? I am confused about how you have so many basic facts misconstrued. Trump had zero to do with Ukraine.

If you have such strong beliefs, why are you hiding in the States and not in Ukraine?

 

[Lafayette]

DIVERSE POLITICAL OPINION IS KEY

A united nation for more than two centuries? You miss the massive civil war they had?

Oh, wow! A civil war that lasted four years!

An anecdote of American history ...

Not to mention the US is currently so fractured politically and socially that they can barely pass a law or bill without massive infighting.

It is not fractured any more than any other country that has "diverse political opinion".

That is the nature of politics throughout the world where it is practiced in a uniform "freedom of choice".

If you live in such a country, consider yourself one helluva lucky person! Political diversity is the key to a functional democracy with diverse political-opinion - meaning that the expression of a total-vote is what counts most an not just the voter ...

PS: Which is why teaching politics is so important to a functional-democracy. The kids need to learn early not just the diverse nature of political-opinion but WHY such diversity is key to a functional-democracy ... !

 

[bave]

And there is not a damn thing Putin can do about it. Send Tanks and Patriot missiles I say.

Nothing like sending Patriots to shoot $4MM missiles at $20k drones.... Moreover, the Patriots are not designed to work in the manner they are to be deployed in Ukraine. Should go swimmingly

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Mr Krugman should simply be thankful that the US didn't have any "Custer" tanks.

 

[Lafayette]

That doesn't mean they preferred them, that's how our primary system works. We generally get to choose between one party from each person when it gets to a general ballot. That means in most cases these people got elected because it was either them, or someone from the other party.

You are thinking within the context of a highly unique political system that is only two parties - as is that of the US.

The world is constituted of democracies that are far more varied than that of the US. Which is neither better nor worse than than America's democracy.

But is wholly very different due to the diversity (which is often exaggerated) ...

 

[Tigerace117]

Because it was the earlier models that got named “Lee” and “Stuart”.

 

[Litwin]

And there is not a damn thing Putin can do about it. Send Tanks and Patriot missiles I say.

yes man, and

 

[Tigerace117]

yes man, and

“Darth Putin” still in tears over the failure to draw the US into the war I see.

 

[uptower]

I struggle to understand what Biden was hoping to extort from others by refusing this for so long.

He wanted them to cough up tanks as well. It seems neither party wanted to be "first". Germany didn't want a target on its back and the US didn't want to be left carrying water for everyone else. They finally agree to both share the burden and everyone's happy.

Except for Putin. And his shills on this site of course.

 

[Litwin]

quality of their production

much better quality than 70 years old made in sralin´s ussr crap , which Muscovy uses today

 

[Tigerace117]

much better quality than 70 years old made in sralin´s ussr crap , which Muscovy uses today

The US is still using a machine gun which entered service before Italy invaded Ethiopia.

 

[Litwin]

“Darth Putin” still in tears over the failure to draw the US into the war I see.

your buddy Lovrov :

Russia’s Lavrov slams US, NATO for ‘directly participating’ in Ukraine war

Russian FM says West playing central role in war due to armaments supply, personnel training; claims Moscow's strikes on infrastructure aimed at disrupting weapons shipments

www.timesofisrael.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2023-01-23/russia-now-engaged-in-a-real-war-with-the-west-over-ukraine-lavrov

 

[Tigerace117]

your buddy Lovrov :

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2023-01-23/russia-now-engaged-in-a-real-war-with-the-west-over-ukraine-lavrov

Cool story.

 

[Litwin]

Cool story.

one more cool story,



have you watched your role model ´s Shapiro- Solovyov last RT show ? this propagandacondom is just losing it

 

[yankintx]

yes man, and

As long as those jets are manned by Ukrainian pilots, I have no issue.

But Anerican pilots and boots on the ground will dissipate American support for Ukraine independence.

 

[yankintx]

much better quality than 70 years old made in sralin´s ussr crap , which Muscovy uses today

Darn

What's Putin doing, raiding the countries museums for arms

Just pathetic

 

[Litwin]

jets are manned by Ukrainian pilots

U. are already working on this + many Free World Heroes are ready to help

 

[Tigerace117]

one more cool story,



have you watched your role model ´s Shapiro- Solovyov last RT show ? this propagandacondom is just losing it

Yawn.

Abrams tanks are hardly invincible, as Yemen shows, and the Leopard has barely been used in actual combat.