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US debt six times greater than declared - study

Tovarish

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The United States has accumulated over $70 trillion in unreported debt, an amount nearly six times the declared figure, according to a new study by University of California-San Diego economics Professor James Hamilton.........US debt six times greater than declared - study ? RT USA

The real shocker in the report, however, came with the cost of Medicare and Social Security, which ran at $27.6 trillion and $26.5 trillion respectively. Hamilton could not conceal his surprise at the findings. “These numbers are so huge it is hard even to discuss them in a coherent way,” he said before providing a caveat on the US demographic situation. “The US population is aging, and an aging population means fewer people paying in and more people expecting benefits.....

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The United States has accumulated over $70 trillion in unreported debt, an amount nearly six times the declared figure, according to a new study by University of California-San Diego economics Professor James Hamilton.........US debt six times greater than declared - study ? RT USA

The real shocker in the report, however, came with the cost of Medicare and Social Security, which ran at $27.6 trillion and $26.5 trillion respectively. Hamilton could not conceal his surprise at the findings. “These numbers are so huge it is hard even to discuss them in a coherent way,” he said before providing a caveat on the US demographic situation. “The US population is aging, and an aging population means fewer people paying in and more people expecting benefits.....

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Well, our communist leftist opponents could not take us head on so they fought us in a Cold War, could not beat us with proxy wars around the globe... think they might have listened to all those that said we could never be beaten from the outside, only from within...maybe funded FDR who started the Social Security system and LBJ who started Medicare, which will surely take us all down? Add to that all the ancillary additions to take us down in the New Deal, the Great Society and now Obamacare [ okay, I will be intellectually honest and add GWB to the mix with his own additions to the Medicare anchor now around our necks ]....

Looks like my folks got outta this world just in time....
 

joG

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Well, our communist leftist opponents could not take us head on so they fought us in a Cold War, could not beat us with proxy wars around the globe... think they might have listened to all those that said we could never be beaten from the outside, only from within...maybe funded FDR who started the Social Security system and LBJ who started Medicare, which will surely take us all down? Add to that all the ancillary additions to take us down in the New Deal, the Great Society and now Obamacare [ okay, I will be intellectually honest and add GWB to the mix with his own additions to the Medicare anchor now around our necks ]....

Looks like my folks got outta this world just in time....

It rather looks like the government will be breaking some promises sometime soon. Pity, really. They felt so good.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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It rather looks like the government will be breaking some promises sometime soon. Pity, really. They felt so good.

True, for all of us that have now paid in our entire life only to find out that there is nothing there... better start making other arrangements. Me, bought a place in Panama on a mountainside. Cool nights, lots of fresh water in the region, fertile ground with everyone in the neighborhood already growing most of their own food... not a survivalist or the end is coming type, but covering my bases in one beautiful spot on the earth... buying silver too...lol
 

joG

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True, for all of us that have now paid in our entire life only to find out that there is nothing there... better start making other arrangements. Me, bought a place in Panama on a mountainside. Cool nights, lots of fresh water in the region, fertile ground with everyone in the neighborhood already growing most of their own food... not a survivalist or the end is coming type, but covering my bases in one beautiful spot on the earth... buying silver too...lol

Buy the silver and gold in small pieces.
 

specklebang

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Since your Fiat dollars are worthless, I generously offer you a real silver old style quarter for only $10 Fiat. Just PM me so you can dump your dollars before the **** hits the fan and this revelation ends civilization.
 

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The United States has accumulated over $70 trillion in unreported debt, an amount nearly six times the declared figure, according to a new study by University of California-San Diego economics Professor James Hamilton.........US debt six times greater than declared - study ? RT USA

The real shocker in the report, however, came with the cost of Medicare and Social Security, which ran at $27.6 trillion and $26.5 trillion respectively. Hamilton could not conceal his surprise at the findings. “These numbers are so huge it is hard even to discuss them in a coherent way,” he said before providing a caveat on the US demographic situation. “The US population is aging, and an aging population means fewer people paying in and more people expecting benefits.....

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This article smells.. because some things dont add up.

For example, how can guarantee on bank deposits in the event of a bank bankruptcy be a liability? It has not happen, and it most likely wont ever happen. That is the FDIC on the list btw.

Or SS .. as I understand it, SS is a massive trust fund, which is generating a surplus still. So unless the US government has seized the whole thing, and guaranteed that people will get the money.. then how can it be a liability?

Not to mention some of the definitions are really strange.. it says debt, but since SS has been running at a surplus for decades, then how the hell can there be a 27 trillion dollar debt? And how can there be a 7 trillion dollar debt to the FDIC or did we all miss some massive bank failures the last 5 years?

I would love to see the actual report, because in no way do I trust RT as a source and since RT (as far as I can see) does not provide the source material, then well..
 

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This article smells.. because some things dont add up.

For example, how can guarantee on bank deposits in the event of a bank bankruptcy be a liability? It has not happen, and it most likely wont ever happen. That is the FDIC on the list btw.

Or SS .. as I understand it, SS is a massive trust fund, which is generating a surplus still. So unless the US government has seized the whole thing, and guaranteed that people will get the money.. then how can it be a liability?

Not to mention some of the definitions are really strange.. it says debt, but since SS has been running at a surplus for decades, then how the hell can there be a 27 trillion dollar debt? And how can there be a 7 trillion dollar debt to the FDIC or did we all miss some massive bank failures the last 5 years?

I would love to see the actual report, because in no way do I trust RT as a source and since RT (as far as I can see) does not provide the source material, then well..

Especially for you - source material http://papers.nber.org/tmp/23725-w19253.pdf
 

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The United States has accumulated over $70 trillion in unreported debt, an amount nearly six times the declared figure, according to a new study by University of California-San Diego economics Professor James Hamilton.........US debt six times greater than declared - study ? RT USA

The real shocker in the report, however, came with the cost of Medicare and Social Security, which ran at $27.6 trillion and $26.5 trillion respectively. Hamilton could not conceal his surprise at the findings. “These numbers are so huge it is hard even to discuss them in a coherent way,” he said before providing a caveat on the US demographic situation. “The US population is aging, and an aging population means fewer people paying in and more people expecting benefits.....

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Interesting. Cue three, and two, and one ... for the GOP to declare all that debt occurred under Obama.
 

Tovarish

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Thankies.. will be interesting reading

I am glad to give you pleasure. By the way, RT - a good information site. It provides an alternative point of view. But he's not lying.
 

Tovarish

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Interesting. Cue three, and two, and one ... for the GOP to declare all that debt occurred under Obama.

I think the United States began to live in debt - under Reagan. Each year, increasing debt. But most of all increased the debt - Bush and Obama.
 

MMC

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I think the United States began to live in debt - under Reagan. Each year, increasing debt. But most of all increased the debt - Bush and Obama.

Not only the debt.....but Government Growth as well.
 

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I am glad to give you pleasure. By the way, RT - a good information site. It provides an alternative point of view.

Yes, but that alternative view is sanctioned by Putin and his mob friends, which means anything RT says has to be taken with a grain of salt.
 

MMC

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Yes, but that alternative view is sanctioned by Putin and his mob friends, which means anything RT says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

"Oh no".....not another New Source to complain over. :lol:
 

Tovarish

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Yes, but that alternative view is sanctioned by Putin and his mob friends, which means anything RT says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Perhaps, more trustworthy talk American politicians? In my opinion, people need to think. In any case, the RT is not seen in a lie. Although a person chooses himself, what to read.
 

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I have now read his report, and RT is.. lets say... inventive on how they reported the report.

First off he consistently ignores inflation for some reason. How he can compare a dollar value from 1980 to 2012 without taking inflation into consideration is a bit baffling... unless he does so and does not mention it, which would make him a fraud academically..

Secondly he lays down a considerable amount of assumptions to get to the end result.

For example on the FDIC. He argues that because of the FDIC guarantees a certain amount of deposits in banks, then that has to be taken as a liability even though the last major run on banks in the US happened before the FDIC was created and in fact that run was the reason that the FDIC was put in place. He talks moral hazard.. that because there is such a guarantee then the banks are at a higher risk of going belly up ... err what? His arguments make no sense what so ever, since the amount of bank failures and FDIC paying out the guarantee is very small because the first job of the FDIC is to sell of the assets of the bank in question and use that money to pay the guarantees.. and if there is not enough assets then the government guarantee kicks in.

He puts such very big assumptions on all the "extra" liabilities including the SS ... which is a whopper.. he says..

Such programs could be regarded as an off-balance-sheet liability if existing policies commit the government to a certain level of assistance to be offered to retirees in years to come.

In other words he does not want to commit to this one but it looks good in a spread sheet. He says that SS "could" be regarded as an off-balance-sheet liability, because the program basically exists and that some time in the future SS will pay money to old people. No mention of the income that comes into the SS fund to finance the whole thing, or the big deposits that are already there.. those are ignored.

This pattern is almost consistent through out the report. A lot of assumptions and "forgetting other aspects".. although he does state that SS and Medicare are a needed programs.. even the FDIC and Fannie and Freddie get positive mentions.

And then there is Fannie and Freddie... a puzzling one since that is money owed to the US government by the people. Far far from all the loans are bad, and those loans will be paid back. So why is it a liability? He is basically writing off half the mortgages in the US this way..

And then there is what is missing. What about contractual obligations of the US government.. like military contracts that range in the hundreds of billions?

And then there is of course no mention of assets :)

It is an interesting short report, that can be used by talking heads to debate, but as an actual "evidence" of massive US government debt.. it aint.
 

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"Oh no".....not another New Source to complain over. :lol:

RT is not new, but it is rarely used on these boards. But it is funny how the American right love RT all of a sudden.. considering who runs the joint :)

And for the record, I do watch RT a fair bit, and they do have interesting stories... they are also heavily anti-American if we go by the usual standard on these boards.. anything critical of the US = anti-American. But I guess the US right ignores the attacks on their own, just because RT also attacks Obama quite a bit.
 

MMC

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RT is not new, but it is rarely used on these boards. But it is funny how the American right love RT all of a sudden.. considering who runs the joint :)

And for the record, I do watch RT a fair bit, and they do have interesting stories... they are also heavily anti-American if we go by the usual standard on these boards.. anything critical of the US = anti-American. But I guess the US right ignores the attacks on their own, just because RT also attacks Obama quite a bit.

They don't ignore them.....but they wont hesitate to point out what others are saying. Especially if they don't have a dog in the hunt. Not to mention that RT is discussed with Foreign Policy Mag. That's not to say they consider it a top site for credible sources. But that they just can't be ignored either.

Like the Asian times as well.
 

head of joaquin

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Buy the silver and gold in small pieces.

Yeah, gold is really skyrocketing recently.

BWHHAHAHHAAHAHH!

Hey, do you think that hyperinflation is just around the corner? Again?
 

head of joaquin

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Not only the debt.....but Government Growth as well.

Yep, modern economies have a big public sector. That's what makes them so productive, as opposed to Somalia -- the conservative model of economic paradise.
 

MMC

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Yep, modern economies have a big public sector. That's what makes them so productive, as opposed to Somalia -- the conservative model of economic paradise.

Beats that Model of Liberaldumb that went with Krakatoa.....not once. But twice. ;)
 

head of joaquin

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Beats that Model of Liberaldumb that went with Krakatoa.....not once. But twice. ;)

You need to work on this one. I think it was a Cato Institute economist who thought that Krakatoa was east of Java.
 

MMC

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You need to work on this one. I think it was a Cato Institute economist who thought that Krakatoa was east of Java.

Nah, it was Krugman.....as you can see he just could never get the numbers Right. ;)
 
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