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US considering sending extra weaponry to Ukraine as fears mount over potential Moscow invasion. Mi-17, Javelin anti-tank and anti-armor missiles, etc.

Litwin

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Putin will chose one of his henchmen - that is, someone upon which he has his "claws".

I mean by that he controls the person. He will do this because he has disturbed (polite word) far too many who would like to get even with him.

His daughter has bought a very nice place (vineyard and all) in Bordeaux. I'm sure "daddy" funded the purchase. He could always go there - he has an ambivalent attitude towards France, and they to him.

Besides, the weather is so much nicer in southern-France than Moscow.

We shall see ...
I see a successor scenario . the major issue with can Macho Muscovy be ruled by 2 czars ...
I don't think that they will feel safe in France

"When a member of a Chechen clan is killed, even in a street brawl the vendetta can pass through the generations, obliging the men on both sides ..."

 

Lafayette

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Why do you keep spamming the word "horde" when speaking of RUSSIANS?

It is a stupid thing to do since the RUSSIANS defeated the Horde.

Some think that they actually "won the war".

Hitler had come close to Moscow (8 to 10 miles) and would have taken it had the Russians not stopped him. Its relevance to the Russians is profound and Hitler's threat of taking it produced the right effect in the Russian army. They literally changed the war to their advantage. (Of course the Russian Army death-rate was the largest of WW2 - they paid dearly in lives for their part of the victory.)

Let's not forget the Russians took Berlin and was the reason why Hitler committed suicide - Stalin's troops were just outside of Berlin. I think - but don't really know - that both Eisenhower and Churchill did not expect the Russians to rush into Berlin. But the German divisions fighting them had had "enough".

As history supposedly says it happened ...
 

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Some think that they actually "won the war".

Hitler had come close to Moscow (8 to 10 miles) and would have taken it had the Russians not stopped him. Its relevance to the Russians is profound and Hitler's threat of taking it produced the right effect in the Russian army. They literally changed the war to their advantage. (Of course the Russian Army death-rate was the largest of WW2 - they paid dearly in lives for their part of the victory.)

Let's not forget the Russians took Berlin and was the reason why Hitler committed suicide - Stalin's troops were just outside of Berlin. I think - but don't really know - that both Eisenhower and Churchill did not expect the Russians to rush into Berlin. But the German divisions fighting them had had "enough".

As history supposedly says it happened ...


Oh, I am going father back.

It was Russia that threw off the Tatar Yoke and pushed the Mongols out of the Caucasus, Ukraine and territories east. They crushed the remnants of the Golden Horde (Ulus of Juchi). While Litwin ignores that little fact.

Siberia used to be Mongol as well. As was the Crimean Khanate.
 

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I see a successor scenario . the major issue with can Macho Muscovy be ruled by 2 czars ...
I don't think that they will feel safe in France

"When a member of a Chechen clan is killed, even in a street brawl the vendetta can pass through the generations, obliging the men on both sides ..."


Russian =/= Chechen

Neither ruled by a Tsar.
 
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Lafayette

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I see a successor scenario . the major issue with can Macho Muscovy be ruled by 2 czars ...
I don't think that they will feel safe in France

"When a member of a Chechen clan is killed, even in a street brawl the vendetta can pass through the generations, obliging the men on both sides ..."

Yes, the above could clearly happen. But, who would want to kill him in France? Whoever it might be, if successful, his kids would take revenge. Frankly, I think he may know very well that he must go into hiding. But where? In Russia? Not in Russia?

Russia may no longer be a Communist country, but they have no experience whatsoever of the to-and-fro that occurs in real democracies. Even after they threw out the Tsar, they still did not have any give-and-take as one sees in a true democracy. Stalin assumed the leadership of Russia in 1924 (following Lenin's death), and kept it for a long, long while - up to 1953.

Since that date, most leadership of Russia was held by "apparatchiks". But its change from Communism as the principle political-recipe did not happen until more recently.

The country still has a long way to go ...
 

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delivering to Ukraine mi-17/etc. is a strong signal to Moscow horde , the LO say to the oriental barbaric hordemen if you attack again, you are gonna die ....

View attachment 67362340


So the mi-17 being a utility helicopter similar to a blackhawk in utility and a chinook in lift capability but not much actually offensive use is going to show them how?
 

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I looked it up and it looks like our forces in Afghanitstan did use Mi-17s in limited scale.
I actually did not know american forces used them, I know we bought them for afghan forces because the blackhawk was struggling with lift capacity in the high heat of the afghan mountains and the mi-8 and mi-17 helicopters were much more tolerant to such conditions.

Then they took them away because one fell out of the sky due to poor upkeep, and instead gave them blackhawks which was stupid, blackhawks are stupid reliable, but they need proper upkeep and phase maintenance, the mi-17 can be flown for long periods with no such maintenance. If they could not keep a mi-17 in the air the blackhawks were going to go down as well as they are reliable but not as forgiving to ignoring the upkeep.
 

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Proxy-wars, just what we needed to make a comeback. How's the saying go? Fashion comes back in style every 20 years. I mean, it's not like proxy-wars caused untold suffering around the world or anything so lets dump weapons into a region and see how that works out. I mean, it did amazing things for Syria.
 

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agreed , but today the situation is different. do you agree ?

The situation in the Middle-east changes so often that most "other countries" could not care less. A bomb in a warehouse close to the center of Beirut changed fundamentally Lebanon - exacerbating the religious divisions. Which was, at the time, just "getting on" with its perpetual lackluster administrations and economic "status-quo" (favoring the ultra-rich) .

That country's religious duality (2/3 / 1/3) divides it and not "down the middle" (from here):
Lebanon is an eastern Mediterranean country that is composed of mostly Muslims and Christians. The main two religions are Islam with 61.1% of the citizens (Sunni, Shia, and a small number of Alawites and Ismailis) and Christianity with 33.7% of the citizens (the Maronite Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, Protestantism, the Armenian Apostolic Church). The Druze are about 5.2% of the citizens

I have friends who live there who say "life aint great anymore" - as it once was. Lebanon had managed to keep away from the conflict with Israel and left it to other Arab-countries to waste their money and armies.

Time will tell. Presumably ...
 

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"When a member of a Chechen clan is killed, even in a street brawl the vendetta can pass through the generations, obliging the men on both sides ..."

There is never any good-excuse for rampant religious sectarianism. It is a sign typically of a highly uneducated people who have only the past driving them - and to-hell with the future.

In such a place, the children grow up inculcated with the hates/dislikes of their parents, which is mainly how the waring perpetuates itself ...
 

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A. Golts : "Moscow can bring in (near border) Ukraine 100 000 solders just in 2 -4 days. " Putin´s horde will attack, ´cos they don't have much choice (economy , demography, etc.) , much like Japan in 1941....

 

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MARVELOUSLY MIRACULOUS

And Bush gave Russia South Ossetia and Trump gave Russia a free hand in Syria. Not standing up to Russia is bi-partisan.

Standing up to Russia (ie Putin) is child's play. Even if they started a war, they would never finish it - they just do not have the economic ability to do so. (Methinks.)

The reason Europe does not impose upon Russia is because of its predominant supply of oil, which is sent by a new undersea pipeline (see here). And Putin knows how to squeeze the you-know-whats of a country dependent upon its oil - and Russia needs badly the oil export-income.

Russia is in the pits economically. See its economic spin downwards here:
russia-gdp@2x.png


And it is difficult to see the Russian economy doing anything marvelously-miraculous to get back up to its GDP-level of the decade's beginning. Those were the "good ole days" and they are long gone.

It will take a bunch-of-miracles to get back to those GDP-levels - and its present dictator is no glowing economic-genius.

That is for sure ...
 
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Litwin

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MARVELOUSLY MIRACULOUS



Standing up to Russia (ie Putin) is child's play. Even if they started a war, they would never finish it - they just do not have the economic ability to do so. (Methinks.)

The reason Europe does not impose upon Russia is because of its predominant supply of oil, which is sent by a new undersea pipeline (see here). And Putin knows how to squeeze the you-know-whats of a country dependent upon its oil - and Russia needs badly the oil export-income.

Russia is in the pits economically. See its economic spin downwards here:



russia-gdp@2x.png


And it is difficult to see the Russian economy doing anything marvelously-miraculous to get back up to its GDP-level of the decade's beginning. Those were the "good ole days" and they are long gone.

It will take a bunch-of-miracles to get back to those GDP-levels - and its present dictator is no glowing economic-genius.

That is for sure ...

Great Post ! +1 from me: "its present dictator is no glowing economic-genius."
COMM-everythings-bigger-in-texas-04132018-e1523977818402.jpg
 

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Great Post ! +1 from me: "its present dictator is no glowing economic-genius."

I used to sell computers in Europe - before 2010. I had some Russians working from me who had "escaped" and were fine computer-experts. So, one cannot say they were "dummies".

The Russian-malevolents are the ones who took one-helluva-lotta-muney that belonged to the Central Government and turned into personal profit. (Don't forget the fundamental aspect of Communism - that is, nobody "owned" anything. Everything was shared amongst the people by means of a central-governance of the Communist Party.)

Well, when Communism was coming apart in Eastern-Europe and Russia, some people were VERY aware of what was happening (from here) to state-owned Russian properties:
November 9, 1989: The Berlin Wall—that separated communist East Berlin from democratic West Berlin for nearly 30 years—falls. The years 1989-90 see the collapse of communist regimes in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, Benin, Mozambique, Nicaragua and Yemen.
December 25, 1991: With the resignation of Mikhail Gorbachev, the Soviet Union is dissolved. New Russian President Boris Yeltsin bans the Communist Party. Communism soon ends in Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Congo, Kenya, Yugoslavia and other nations. China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam remain under communist rule. North Korea remains nominally communist, although the North Korean government doesn't call itself communist.

The above shows the deadening roots of Russian communism. What is not said is how Yeltsin mismanaged the exit to build Russia's private market-economy. The power behind the "throne" in Moscow was a person who was Yeltsin's "alter-ego" and executed the necessary changes - knowing full well where the pots-of-gold were in terms of state-owned realty and thus the key-companies that belonged to the state.

That story is to be found here:

The 'brilliant deputy'​

Valentin Yumashev played a key role in Vladimir Putin becoming president of Russia. The former journalist turned Kremlin official rarely gives interviews, but he agreed to meet me and tell his story.
Mr Yumashev was one of Boris Yeltsin's most trusted aides - he went on to marry Mr Yeltsin's daughter, Tatyana. As Mr Yeltsin's chief of staff, in 1997 he gave Mr Putin his first job in the Kremlin.

Yep, smart-ass (V. Yumashev) married the boss's daughter and ruled through Yeltsin (who was drunk most of the time).

He also brought Putin in to work for Yeltsin whilst VY did all the dirty-work. And when Yeltsin retired, Putin was the man they got "elected" as head-of-state by the popular-vote of the Russian people ...

Can't find the above "story" of a similar-but-not-the-same-kind in the US? (You're not looking hard enough ... ;^)
 

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A. Golts : "Moscow can bring in (near border) Ukraine 100 000 solders just in 2 -4 days. " Putin´s horde will attack, ´cos they don't have much choice (economy , demography, etc.) , much like Japan in 1941....


Are you lying again about what others say?

Why yes you are.
 

Litwin

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This puts the border tension between Belarus and Poland in a new light. A distraction, maybe? The author is very correctly pronouncing 'Kyiv'
👍


 

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"WHO rules EAST EUROPE commands the Heartland Who rules the heartland commands the World Island Who rule the world island commands the WORLD"

In no time in history has this above occurred. In fact, when he wanted to subdue the eastern-countries, Napoleon did not have the slightest problem fighting his way to Moscow.

It was in Moscow that he made his great-mistake. The Russians had burnt down Moscow rather than hand it over to him on a platter. He had no way of feeding the massive Army he had brought with him and it was winter when he arrived.

Upon returning to France, he was prey to the British who exiled him to Elba where he died. Brilliant military-men keep winning battles until they lose them. Then they retire.

It's time for Putin to retire and enjoy his ill-got billions. But like others of past history, he wont. So, they will have to find some other way to "retire him" ...

PS: He really likes France and French culture. He'd be safer retiring to the vineyard that he helped his daughter buy than remaining in Russia - where he has made a great many enemies ...
 
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Litwin

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In no time in history has this above occurred. In fact, when he wanted to subdue the eastern-countries, Napoleon did not have the slightest problem fighting his way to Moscow.

It was in Moscow that he made his great-mistake. The Russians had burnt down Moscow rather than hand it over to him on a platter. He had no way of feeding the massive Army he had brought with him and it was winter when he arrived.

Upon returning to France, he was prey to the British who exiled him to Elba where he died. Brilliant military-men keep winning battles until they lose them. Then they retire.

It's time for Putin to retire and enjoy his ill-got billions. But like others of past history, he wont. So, they will have to find some other way to "retire him" ...

PS: He really likes France and French culture. He'd be safer retiring to the vineyard that he helped his daughter buy than remaining in Russia - where he has made a great many enemies ...
very good post , 2 things
1) Muscovite army collapsed as well , Muscovy was simply too poor and It couldn´t feed a big army, I ´d recommend you to read Muscovite historian Evgeny Ponasenkov
2) dont forget that Napoleon liberated Muscovite slaves (90%) of population
3) backward , very poor Muscovy was literally a colony of Germanic people in 19c. (mostly French speaking )

my present to you
 

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Lafayette is a mixed "hero" in France, which lost its last King (Louis XVII) who was beheaded (along with his wife). He cleverly employed tactics that assured his winning of battles, which is how he became famous. And for a while even ruled France - though he had no royal-title.

The "guillotine" (in French) was last employed in France in 1977 - though it actually dates from the 18th century (and perhaps even earlier). It is surprising that it lasted so long in France given that other European countries that also employed guillotines stopped doing so in the 19th century. The guillotine displaced the massive two-hand employed axe that was used previously to execute individuals (both justly and unjustly).

It is still a fascinating device and it seems to attract a good number of people when shown in museums. Here's a history of the device since its invention by a Monsieur Guillotin for anyone interested ...
 

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very good post , 2 things
1) Muscovite army collapsed as well , Muscovy was simply too poor and It couldn´t feed a big army, I ´d recommend you to read Muscovite historian Evgeny Ponasenkov
2) dont forget that Napoleon liberated Muscovite slaves (90%) of population
3) backward , very poor Muscovy was literally a colony of Germanic people in 19c. (mostly French speaking )

my present to you

1. There were no Muscovites, Muscovite Armies etc. The RUSSIAN Army collapsed so badly they chased the French into central Europe.
2) About that. Last time I checked it was 0.5% of the serfs freed. Wow. 0.5%
3. More Litwinhistory at odds with real history. RUSSIA wasn't literally nor figuratively a colony of anyone. They were the largest nation in the world. And until 1870 there was no Germany. wrong on many levels. And Germans spoke German.
 
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whats about "Javelin anti-tank and anti-armor missiles"?

Not exactly "high tech" there. A 25 year old system, and nothing really special or game changing.

And it may be called an "anti-tank weapon", in reality it would be almost useless against any tanks in the Russian military it might face. Might as well give them some LAW rockets.
 

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given that other European countries that also employed guillotines stopped doing so in the 19th century.

Not true at all.

Germany also loved the Fallbeil, and executed over 20,000 with it during WWII. The last person killed by guillotine in West Germany was Berthold Wehmeyer in 1949. East Germany last used it in 1966 on Horst Fischer.

And let me continue.

In Switzerland it was last used on Hans Vollenweider in 1940.

In Sweden, it was last used in 1910. In Greece, 1913.
 

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Not exactly "high tech" there. A 25 year old system, and nothing really special or game changing.

And it may be called an "anti-tank weapon", in reality it would be almost useless against any tanks in the Russian military it might face. Might as well give them some LAW rockets.

One small "local" atomic-bomb upon an entire division of tanks and they all become useless in a split-second.

Wars are now "economic" and not "political". Any country that starts a war can be ostracized literally overnight and cut-off entirely from international trade. That's enough to give second-thoughts to most of them. (And I am thinking particularly of China where such a "mechanism" would mean an economic-disaster for the ruling government.)

The eastern-European ex-Soviet countries have yet to learn the meaning of "democracy" and many (if not most) remain under the command of ex-Soviet political leaders. Given time, these will "die-out" quite naturally and hopefully there is nobody taking their place. (They would need a couple of hard-headed military-divisions to take-and-keep power.)

Time will tell - it always does ...
 

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One small "local" atomic-bomb upon an entire division of tanks and they all become useless in a split-second.

Actually, they do not.

You do know that military equipment like tanks are protected against EMP, even if it is real. Right? That the Faraday Cage is almost 200 year old technology, and is amazingly simple to build into military equipment.

No, while some things may stop working, military combat equipment will not be one of them. They were designed with that in mind, for a great many reasons. Because the same "technology" that keeps EMP from damaging equipment is the exact same technology used to prevent eavesdropping on our equipment, and the reception or emission of unwanted radio signals.
 
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