• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Updated rules - Hate Messages [W:27, 43, 103]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
From the update forum rules :

18. Hate Messages - Hate Messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as one of the following towards a “protected group” or a message aimed at an individual based on their identity in a “protected group”:

A) The support for or a call for violence.
B) The suggestion of removal of essential civil liberties.
C) Claims of severe dehumanization.
D) Claims of illegal behavior across the entire group.

Protected groups are:
a) Race.
b) Ethnicity.
c) Religion (also atheists).
d) Sexual orientation (including the transgendered).
e) National origin.
f) Gender.
g) Disability.

That sure seems awefully open ended there. Is there anyway to close it up a bit? Because frankly the way this rule is written at least half of the people here at DP could be infracted under the way this is worded. Even the way that it is worded could be construed as a violation of the rule itself. Ex: d) Sexual orientation (including the transgendered).: Transgendered is being "included" as if the writer only added it because they were forced to and considers it a seperate group that doesn't actually have anything to do with sexual orientation.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
From the update forum rules :


That sure seems awfully open ended there. Is there anyway to close it up a bit? Because frankly the way this rule is written at least half of the people here at DP could be infracted under the way this is worded. Even the way that it is worded could be construed as a violation of the rule itself. Ex: d) Sexual orientation (including the transgendered).: Transgendered is being "included" as if the writer only added it because they were forced to and considers it a separate group that doesn't actually have anything to do with sexual orientation.
Yup, so if you support, say, gun control, then you are subject to moderator action because you are 'suggesting the removal of essential civil liberties' (the second amendment) from a 'national origin' (Americans).
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yup, so if you support, say, gun control, then you are subject to moderator action because you are 'suggesting the removal of essential civil liberties' (the second amendment) from a 'national origin' (Americans).

That is one of the many examples that popped into my mind when I read the rule.
 

ThePlayDrive

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
19,610
Reaction score
7,647
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
1. There was already a debate about this along time ago.

2. On the second list:

Protected groups are:
a) Race.
b) Ethnicity.
c) Religion (also atheists).
d) Sexual orientation (including the transgendered).
e) National origin.
f) Gender.
g) Disability.

Shouldn't "(including the transgendered)" be under "f) Gender.", not "d) Sexual orientation."?
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,657
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
What jumped out at me is the fact that of the protected groups, one is something that is entirely voluntary rather than innate.

Having a protected group based upon nothing but religious ideology seems thought out very poorly.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That is one of the many examples that popped into my mind when I read the rule.
Another example is to oppose SSM in a state where it's already legal, because that's 'suggesting the removal of essential civil liberties' from a 'gender' AND 'sexual orientation'.

Same thing for opposing abortion.
 
Last edited:

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What jumped out at me is the fact that of the protected groups, one is something that is entirely voluntary rather than innate.

Having a protected group based upon nothing but religious ideology seems thought out very poorly.
YADWIT.+Yet+Another+Deal+With+It_5a4e26_4658365.gif
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
What jumped out at me is the fact that of the protected groups, one is something that is entirely voluntary rather than innate.

Having a protected group based upon nothing but religious ideology seems thought out very poorly.

The idea of protested classes is stupid no matter what.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Some people are more equal than others.

It always came off as a "I'm to much of a baby to made fun of" kind of thing to me.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It always come off as a "I'm to much of a baby to made fun of" kind of thing to me.
That is exactly what it is.

The 14th was written to give recently freed slaves citizenship. When did the civil war become about gays sharing insurance policies?
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Another example is to oppose SSM in a state where it's already legal, because that's 'suggesting the removal of essential civil liberties' from a 'gender' AND 'sexual orientation'.

Same thing for opposing abortion.

Another example is when people call for overthrowing governmental tyranny...something which the US happens to have been founded on. ;) "A) The support for or a call for violence." and in this case even the "support" for such a call could land one in trouble.
 

Medusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
39,861
Reaction score
7,847
Location
Turkey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
all muslims were called animal once

l hope teh user was infracted
 

Kal'Stang

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
42,744
Reaction score
22,569
Location
Bonners Ferry ID USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
1. There was already a debate about this along time ago.

2. On the second list:



Shouldn't "(including the transgendered)" be under "f) Gender.", not "d) Sexual orientation."?

Actually it would be included in both as it is about orientation and gender.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Another example is when people call for overthrowing governmental tyranny...something which the US happens to have been founded on. ;) "A) The support for or a call for violence." and in this case even the "support" for such a call could land one in trouble.
Yup, can't advocate anyone defending themselves against a home invasion anymore...or defending themselves in any way, because defense is violence.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,490
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yup, so if you support, say, gun control, then you are subject to moderator action because you are 'suggesting the removal of essential civil liberties' (the second amendment) from a 'national origin' (Americans).

No. If you say that "all Jews should have any weapons that they own, confiscated", that might apply. Being just for gun control does not. No protected group is identified.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,258
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No. If you say that "all Jews should have any weapons that they own, confiscated", that would apply. Being just for gun control does not. No protected group is identified.
National Origin is a protected group.

This is a political site and your new rules basically make all political opinions of every kind forbidden.
 

Ray410

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,838
Reaction score
2,565
Location
Nevada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
It might help if everyday posting examples of what would constitute a violation in each category were provided. I think most people are very concerned that the rules are applied equally across the board.

Most people don't set out to violate the rules, that would eventually be self defeating. At the same time, people need a high degree of rule clarity so that they don't have to reread each post for ten minutes and then end up just canceling the post in order to be safe.

Rule clarity is important on political boards because passions sometimes run very high.

I don't think posters want to learn rule clarification through being infracted, i.e. The School of Hard Knocks.
 
Last edited:

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,490
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
National Origin is a protected group.

This is a political site and your new rules basically make all political opinions of every kind forbidden.

I'm sorry if that's how you are reading them. That is not what they are saying, of course.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
That is exactly what it is.

The 14th was written to give recently freed slaves citizenship. When did the civil war become about gays sharing insurance policies?

I don't desire to comment on that, but this whole thing only exists because some people lack the nads necessary to deal with other peoples opinions. Yes, some people are assholes and other people are just unpleasant and we have an ignore feature for that.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I don't particularly see a need to be protected because of your "national origin" - if people, usually on the left, want to hate me because I'm Canadian and they've never heard of a conservative Canadian, that's fine with me - your hate says more about you than it does about me, and I'd rather you were up front about it and not hiding in the weeds.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,490
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
From the update forum rules :



That sure seems awefully open ended there. Is there anyway to close it up a bit? Because frankly the way this rule is written at least half of the people here at DP could be infracted under the way this is worded. Even the way that it is worded could be construed as a violation of the rule itself. Ex: d) Sexual orientation (including the transgendered).: Transgendered is being "included" as if the writer only added it because they were forced to and considers it a seperate group that doesn't actually have anything to do with sexual orientation.

The rule was significantly tightened up and the degree of severity of a post in order to receive a HS infraction was increased. We felt that members believed that HS infractions were levied to easily.

And we are aware that transgendered is not about sexual orientation, but issues around transgenderism are often discussed around sexual orientation. I believe it SHOULD have read "also the transgendered" for that reason, and an error may have been made there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom