Up to 8,000 migrants advance in U.S.-bound caravans across Guatemala (1/16/21)

[Fred C Dobbs II]

And which country helped foment those levels of conflict? Why yes, that bastion of 'freedom and democracy', the USA. You create refugee crises and then whine about the consequences of the messes you made. Priceless.

United States involvement in regime change in Latin America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Stay out of countries where you're uninvited and unwanted. The world will be a happier and more peaceful place-especially the world in your back yard, Latin America.

In fact you know nothing of Central America while I've been living there, of and on, for 27 years.
It's actually American leftists who have been supporting despots like Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and the like for the last two generations and worked against those who were genuinely fighting for the freedom of these people. They have also inherited laws and cultures from Spain designed to keep the people down and the ruling class in power.

The lower classes are taught in the public schools, where the education is designed not to advance critical thought but to obey authority, while the elites are sent to private schools where they get a genuine education and eventually become the judges, politicians, industry leaders and so on..

Of course the same thing has been going on in the US for a generation or more, which is why they fight against School Choice. In order to maintain power in government the elites of the world need a moderately ignorant people whose diploma may as well be handed out by the Wizard of Oz. But they also get courses in self esteem in order that they may never know how genuinely foolish and uneducated they really are.

 

[snakestretcher]

In fact you know nothing of Central America while I've been living there, of and on, for 27 years.
It's actually American leftists who have been supporting despots like Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and the like for the last two generations and worked against those who were genuinely fighting for the freedom of these people. They have also inherited laws and cultures from Spain designed to keep the people down and the ruling class in power.

The lower classes are taught in the public schools, where the education is designed not to advance critical thought but to obey authority, while the elites are sent to private schools where they get a genuine education and eventually become the judges, politicians, industry leaders and so on..

Of course the same thing has been going on in the US for a generation or more, which is why they fight against School Choice. In order to maintain power in government the elites of the world need a moderately ignorant people whose diploma may as well be handed out by the Wizard of Oz. But they also get courses in self esteem in order that they may never know how genuinely foolish and uneducated they really are.

Cuba is not Central America. It is in the Caribbean and is another country ****ed-up by pointless US embargoes and failed CIA-financed and organised invasions and assassination attempts. It's a great place for a vacation. Such a shame your government won't let you go there to spend your tourist dollars to help their economy.

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

Cuba is not Central America.

Really? And you can quote where I said it was? The point was that deeply ignorant leftist, and I won't cite you as an example despite trying to be a smartass,. have supported dictators throughout Latin America, and throughout the world as well of course

It is in the Caribbean and is another country ****ed-up by pointless US embargoes and failed CIA-financed and organised invasions and assassination attempts. It's a great place for a vacation. Such a shame your government won't let you go there to spend your tourist dollars to help their economy.

A great place to see a private zoo with people on display instead of caged animals. The Castro family appreciates your business.

 

[Nickyjo]

In fact you know nothing of Central America while I've been living there, of and on, for 27 years.
It's actually American leftists who have been supporting despots like Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and the like for the last two generations and worked against those who were genuinely fighting for the freedom of these people. They have also inherited laws and cultures from Spain designed to keep the people down and the ruling class in power.

The lower classes are taught in the public schools, where the education is designed not to advance critical thought but to obey authority, while the elites are sent to private schools where they get a genuine education and eventually become the judges, politicians, industry leaders and so on..

Of course the same thing has been going on in the US for a generation or more, which is why they fight against School Choice. In order to maintain power in government the elites of the world need a moderately ignorant people whose diploma may as well be handed out by the Wizard of Oz. But they also get courses in self esteem in order that they may never know how genuinely foolish and uneducated they really are.

Guys, is it possible that on the left, the Cuban government, and to a much lesser extent Nicaragua's have violated their citizen's rights, and that on the right, Guatemala and El Salvador have also done so? Though what happened in El Salvador and Guatemala (or Argentina) under their dictatorships goes way beyond anything Daniel Ortega or even Fidel have come up with, it doesn't comfort persons imprisoned by leftists if you tell them they would be dead in the right wing countries. It really doesn't matter if the person turning the rack, so to speak, is right-handed or left-handed.

Really? And you can quote where I said it was? The point was that deeply ignorant leftist, and I won't cite you as an example despite trying to be a smartass,. have supported dictators throughout Latin America, and throughout the world as well of course
A great place to see a private zoo with people on display instead of caged animals. The Castro family appreciates your business.

Lets face facts and history. How Cuba developed under Castro was inexcusable on several levels, but also understandable. Think of the Platt Amendment, watch Godfather II and learn a bit of how Cuba was the US's whorehouse, and/or look at the sequence of events 1959-61 that led to the split between Castro and the US to get a taste of the other side's view of things. Kennedy deplored the fact that Cuba was just 90 miles away. I imagine many Cubans felt the same about being just 90 miles from the US. (As a Mexican president put it over 100 years ago, "Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the United States."). Or just remember the words of my Cuban exile co-worker back in the day, who said, "I hate Castro, but the US got what it deserved in Cuba." And it's amazing how the US could make up with China, which killed Americans in Korea, have detente with the Soviets a year after they invaded Czechoslovakia, and could even do outreach to North Korea under Trump. As the Cuban ditty went,
Fidel, Fidel, que tiene Fidel,
Que los americanos no puede con el?
(Loosely translated, what's with Fidel that drives Americans so crazy?)

 

[Kreton]

All coming in anticipation of Joe Biden giving all illegals amnesty

I hope every single one of them in let in, and given full amnesty, citizenship and that this is just the first of hundreds of these waves. We need more people like this, and less people who supported Trump terrorism.

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

Guys, is it possible that on the left, the Cuban government, and to a much lesser extent Nicaragua's have violated their citizen's rights, and that on the right, Guatemala and El Salvador have also done so?

What makes you think these two countries are 'on the right'? They are typical Latin American dictatorships but no 'rightists' I know of have ever supported them. Such is not the case with Cuba and Nicaragua, both of which had broad leftist support..

Though what happened in El Salvador and Guatemala (or Argentina) under their dictatorships goes way beyond anything Daniel Ortega or even Fidel have come up with,

That's absolutely false and a seriously uninformed comment.

it doesn't comfort persons imprisoned by leftists if you tell them they would be dead in the right wing countries. It really doesn't matter if the person turning the rack, so to speak, is right-handed or left-handed.

Of course not, but facts matter.

Lets face facts and history. How Cuba developed under Castro was inexcusable on several levels, but also understandable. Think of the Platt Amendment, watch Godfather II and learn a bit of how Cuba was the US's whorehouse, and/or look at the sequence of events 1959-61 that led to the split between Castro and the US to get a taste of the other side's view of things.

The other side? Who is the other side? A communist dictatorship? Dictatorships speak for themselves and not for the people forced to live under their rule.

Kennedy deplored the fact that Cuba was just 90 miles away. I imagine many Cubans felt the same about being just 90 miles from the US. (As a Mexican president put it over 100 years ago, "Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the United States.").

Had Mexico been governed by the US, with its laws and Constitution, the people would have been far better off and wouldn't have to leave their homeland for a better life.

Or just remember the words of my Cuban exile co-worker back in the day, who said, "I hate Castro, but the US got what it deserved in Cuba."

Really? And what did the US deserve?

And it's amazing how the US could make up with China, which killed Americans in Korea, have detente with the Soviets a year after they invaded Czechoslovakia, and could even do outreach to North Korea under Trump. As the Cuban ditty went,
Fidel, Fidel, que tiene Fidel,
Que los americanos no puede con el?
(Loosely translated, what's with Fidel that drives Americans so crazy?)

That says a lot about the education system in Cuba. Cubans have been attempting to escape their island prison for 60 years and it's the Americans who are crazy? What foolishness.

 

[Nickyjo]

What makes you think these two countries are 'on the right'? They are typical Latin American dictatorships but no 'rightists' I know of have ever supported them. Such is not the case with Cuba and Nicaragua, both of which had broad leftist support..
++ Guatemala post the US sponsored coup in 1954 was indeed on the right. Labor organizers, journalists, thousands of rural folk, murdered by death squads. Ditto El Salvador in the 1970s and 80s. I interviewed death squad participants and relatives of victims from both countries. The death squads didn’t target conservatives.

That's absolutely false and a seriously uninformed comment.
Of course not, but facts matter.
The other side? Who is the other side? A communist dictatorship? Dictatorships speak for themselves and not for the people forced to live under their rule.
Had Mexico been governed by the US, with its laws and Constitution, the people would have been far better off and wouldn't have to leave their homeland for a better life.
Really? And what did the US deserve?
That says a lot about the education system in Cuba. Cubans have been attempting to escape their island prison for 60 years and it's the Americans who are crazy? What foolishness.

 

[eohrnberger]

When all those 8K migrants arrive at the US border just watch the Biden administration give them all automatic amnesty, US citizenship, and then government benefits on top of it all.

 

[Nickyjo]

What makes you think these two countries are 'on the right'?
++ My first response got sent before I finished replying. Sorry. Those countries were indeed on the right. Guatemala’s democratically elected government ran afoul of the United Fruit Company, and the Dulles Bros overthrew it, with our dictator, Castillo Armas, arriving on a US Embassy plane. Decades of death squads targeting union and peasant leaders, journalists, religious including an American priest friend followed.
They are typical Latin American dictatorships but no 'rightists' I know of have ever supported them.
++See the above. The coup was celebrated by Reader’s Digest and other conservative outlets. And Ronald Reagan gleefully supported El Salvador and praised Guatemala’s dictator, Rios Montt, who was sentenced to a long prison term for his mass murders.

Such is not the case with Cuba and Nicaragua, both of which had broad leftist support.
++ Of course there was leftist support for Nicaragua, as the US supported dictatorships for decades. (Conservative US student groups and Senators, on the other hand, supported one of El Salvador’s worst butchers, Roberto d’Abuisson.) But it was a natural response of the left to sympathize with a country of three million that overthrew a family the US (300 million) had supported for decades. We had a hissy fit when “our son of a bitch,” as FDR described Somoza’s father, had his descendant of the same name tossed out.
As for Cuba, check out the Platt Amendment. Our policy towards both countries and Latin America in general was functionally no different than the Soviet policy towards Eastern Europe. We exercised veto power over governments in our sphere of influence, as did Russia. Hungary gets out of line, they invade. Dominican Republic does, we invade. Poland drifts away, Soviet-sponsored coup. Chile drifts away, US-sponsored coup. Imperialism, plain and simple. That our domestic policy was of a liberal democracy didn’t mean we couldn’t support fascism in our region.
That's absolutely false and a seriously uninformed comment.
++ How many nuns and priests and bishops have shown up dead in Nicaragua?
Of course not, but facts matter.
The other side? Who is the other side? A communist dictatorship? Dictatorships speak for themselves and not for the people forced to live under their rule.
++ As I said, look at the sequence of events that led to the split. Add to that US using the island as our whore house, and some resentment is understood. If we can come to grips with China, and the Soviets, why not Cuba?

Had Mexico been governed by the US, with its laws and Constitution, the people would have been far better off and wouldn't have to leave their homeland for a better life.
++ Much like Cubans leave for a better life. , automatically granted status on arrival. The Mexican president who commented on US proximity may have been referring to the US take over of nearly half of its territory

Really? And what did the US deserve?
That says a lot about the education system in Cuba. Cubans have been attempting to escape their island prison for 60 years and it's the Americans who are crazy? What foolishness.

++ See the above about the US somehow coming to grips with China and the USSR. Canada, Europe, Mexico, et al. seem to not get hysterical about Cuba. I chalk our different response up to the King Lear syndrome, “how sharper than a serpent’s tooth is an ungrateful child.” How dare Cuba reject its Yankee daddy!

And, of course, both Cubans and Mexicans-and lately Hondurans and Salvadorans-leave their homeland for a better life.

 

[Nickyjo]

When all those 8K migrants arrive at the US border just watch the Biden administration give them all automatic amnesty, US citizenship, and then government benefits on top of it all.

Oh yeah. Paranoia strikes deep.

 

[Bodi]

YES!!!!!!!!!

Soon the end of white culture in America!!!! Soon the taco will replace the hot dog

I thought that it already had... and thank god because it is far healthier and far superior in taste and variety/...

 

[Bodi]

US needs to start talking (like have normal diplomatic relations...never done, I know. But it is about time) to those countries in South America from which these refugees comes. Guatemala is a democracy and there is no reason for the US to let them in. There is no war going on. Why are they leaving? What is wrong in Guatemala to make people walk for 1000th of miles? Guatemala needs to fix their own problems. If it is minority groups that are victims to discrimination, US should press them to fix it. It is difficult but still, it wouldn't stop the migration but it might slow it down.

We will reroute them to Sweden then,,,

 

[Nickyjo]

We will reroute them to Sweden then,,,

Juks is right in one way, in that the US has a role to play. We have been involved in Central America for decades. The Pottery Barn metaphor applies: we helped break many of those countries; it’s our moral and practical duty to help fix them.