Unregulated Immigration: the Libertarian Way

[Guy Incognito]

It is clear that opposition to free immigration is both irrational and contrary to libertarian moral philosophy. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of libertarian thought. No restrictions should be placed on immigration as a moral matter; where people choose to live is not the government's business.

And, like most libertarian positions, unrestricted immigration is the most sensible and economically efficient policy. Welcoming all immigrants, documented or not, is simply good and healthy for the economy. The people who immigrate are generally young, intelligent, and enterprising. An open immigration policy is like a reverse brain drain. We are getting the best of the best from other countries and using them in our economy. So this fear of immigration is irrational. What we should be afraid of is the day when new immigrants don't want to come here anymore.

 

[joG]

It is clear that opposition to free immigration is both irrational and contrary to libertarian moral philosophy. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of libertarian thought. No restrictions should be placed on immigration as a moral matter; where people choose to live is not the government's business.

And, like most libertarian positions, unrestricted immigration is the most sensible and economically efficient policy. Welcoming all immigrants, documented or not, is simply good and healthy for the economy. The people who immigrate are generally young, intelligent, and enterprising. An open immigration policy is like a reverse brain drain. We are getting the best of the best from other countries and using them in our economy. So this fear of immigration is irrational. What we should be afraid of is the day when new immigrants don't want to come here anymore.

It is like many a chemical process. If you shoot droplets at the fire, you can create puffs of steam for ever, but throw the bucket and out the fire goes.

 

[Cryptic]

So this fear of immigration is irrational. What we should be afraid of is the day when new immigrants don't want to come here anymore.

Which will rapidly be the case if immigration is not controlled.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Not really. Libertarianism seems to be neutral towards immigration.

I personally subscribe to pro immigration but I fail to see how that is distinctly libertarian.

 

[JayDubya]

Libertarianism is also fundamentally opposed to a welfare state.

When you combine a welfare state and open borders, anyone who can do math knows you have a problem.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Which will rapidly be the case if immigration is not controlled.

No way. If we seal ourselves off and regulate immigration, our economy will stagnate.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Libertarianism is also fundamentally opposed to a welfare state.

When you combine a welfare state and open borders, anyone who can do math knows you have a problem.

Ok, so we should reform our entitlement system. But it's absurd to claim the immigrants are coming here and bleeding us dry. There isn't that much in the way of welfare to be had. At the cost of a few food stamps, the economic benefit of immigrants is a net positive for the economy. That's the math.

 

[Guy Incognito]

It is like many a chemical process. If you shoot droplets at the fire, you can create puffs of steam for ever, but throw the bucket and out the fire goes.

Ok, sure. So in this case the droplets are immigrants and the fire is our failing economy. Let loose the immigrants and fix the economy.

 

[Henrin]

Ok, so we should reform our entitlement system. But it's absurd to claim the immigrants are coming here and bleeding us dry. There isn't that much in the way of welfare to be had. At the cost of a few food stamps, the economic benefit of immigrants is a net positive for the economy. That's the math.

The math shows us you have to pick one or the other, but people like yourself want both. Have fun with that.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Not really. Libertarianism seems to be neutral towards immigration.

I personally subscribe to pro immigration but I fail to see how that is distinctly libertarian.

No, libertarianism isnt "neutral" on immigration. Government restriction of freedom of movement and freedom of association is unjustly coercive and fundamentally unlibertarian.

 

[Guy Incognito]

The math shows us you have to pick one or the other, but people like yourself want both. Have fun with that.

The false assumption here is that there is a huge welfare state in the US to begin with. That's is just plain wrong. The only welfare problem we have is with corporate welfare.

 

[JayDubya]

So you're telling us you support socialism by minimizing the incredible expense of the American welfare state while lecturing us on what is libertarian?


LOL, wut?

 

[jonny5]

It is clear that opposition to free immigration is both irrational and contrary to libertarian moral philosophy. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of libertarian thought. No restrictions should be placed on immigration as a moral matter; where people choose to live is not the government's business.

And, like most libertarian positions, unrestricted immigration is the most sensible and economically efficient policy. Welcoming all immigrants, documented or not, is simply good and healthy for the economy. The people who immigrate are generally young, intelligent, and enterprising. An open immigration policy is like a reverse brain drain. We are getting the best of the best from other countries and using them in our economy. So this fear of immigration is irrational. What we should be afraid of is the day when new immigrants don't want to come here anymore.

What about enemies of the state?

 

[Cryptic]

No way. If we seal ourselves off and regulate immigration, our economy will stagnate.

You appear to be mixing two different concepts in your post:

A- "sealing ourselves off"
B- "regulating immigration"

Regulating immigration to the needs of the economy will not stagnate the economy. Rather, it will help it grow.

 

[Ockham]

Ok, so we should reform our entitlement system.

We SHOULD do a lot of things but no one in power or talking about running for power will be able to reform the entitlement system unless the Libertarians control the house, senate and white house. The 2 party system is far to invested in welfare. When are the Libertarians going to take over the majority politics of the US? No time soon I'm afraid so your suggestion while correct, is not realistic given the current environment.

But it's absurd to claim the immigrants are coming here and bleeding us dry.

It's hyperbole in some cases and accurate in others. Given no entitlement reform or welfare reform is on the horizon, the powers that be (that 2 party system I talked about) are incentivized to push their own programs to have immigrants do just that - the reason is to obtain and hold votes.

There isn't that much in the way of welfare to be had. At the cost of a few food stamps, the economic benefit of immigrants is a net positive for the economy. That's the math.

That's simply not true, but I guess it depends on your definition of "isn't that much". Between Federal, State and Local programs provided by government there is a plethora of programs, many duplicated. For example, here's Rhode Islands list.

Guide Full Listing of Programs - Guide to Government Assistance - The Economic Progress Institute


In my home state, as well there is a plethora: Department of Human Services | County Welfare Agencies (Boards of Social Services)
Not to mention federal which can augment state in certain cases: Benefits.gov - Your Path to Government Benefits

You're math apparently does add up.


The issue with borders and sovereignty is incompatible with open borders and a world community as opposed to a world with sovereign borders, individual governments, military, laws, and cultures. Until a "Star Trek" type political system is accepted world wide, adopted and executed with many decades of trial and error, modifications --- you're view simply isn't workable. It's however, a very nice pipe dream to think we can live in a world where there are no borders, there are no countries, there is no homeless, i.e., utopia. But utopia has always been the dream of the far left and the pacifists.... reality always interferes with utopia, as does the human condition.

 

[Guy Incognito]

You appear to be mixing two different concepts in your post:

A- "sealing ourselves off"
B- "regulating immigration"

Regulating immigration to the needs of the economy will not stagnate the economy. Rather, it will help it grow.

Immigration regulation is sealing off to one degree or another. Unlimited and unregulated immigration is not only the morally correct policy, but it is precisely what the economy needs to grow.

 

[clownboy]

It is clear that opposition to free immigration is both irrational and contrary to libertarian moral philosophy. Freedom of movement is a cornerstone of libertarian thought. No restrictions should be placed on immigration as a moral matter; where people choose to live is not the government's business.

And, like most libertarian positions, unrestricted immigration is the most sensible and economically efficient policy. Welcoming all immigrants, documented or not, is simply good and healthy for the economy. The people who immigrate are generally young, intelligent, and enterprising. An open immigration policy is like a reverse brain drain. We are getting the best of the best from other countries and using them in our economy. So this fear of immigration is irrational. What we should be afraid of is the day when new immigrants don't want to come here anymore.

That's not a libertarian position, that's a suicidal opinion. It's freedom of movement for citizens within the country, not some open borders crapfest.

Immigrant does not equal illegal alien.

 

[Guy Incognito]

That's not a libertarian position, that's a suicidal opinion. It's freedom of movement for citizens within the country, not some open borders crapfest.

Immigrant does not equal illegal alien.

No, that's quite wrong. Libertarian principles entail freedom of movement and freedom of association for everyone.

Libertarianism necessitates open borders.

 

[Cryptic]

Immigration regulation is sealing off to one degree or another. Unlimited and unregulated immigration is not only the morally correct policy, but it is precisely what the economy needs to grow.

Any examples of where unlimited immigration has led to growing economies?

 

[Guy Incognito]

Any examples of where unlimited immigration has led to growing economies?

All economies that have ever permitted it!

 

[clownboy]

All economies that have ever permitted it!

So, zero.

 

[Cryptic]

All economies that have ever permitted it!

Ok, give some examples.

One example is USA say 1492 to say, the 1850s. Of course, the growing economy came at the destruction of the prior civilization, so this may not be a good example to promote the policy. Do you know of any others?

 

[Reformedfindlay]

No, that's quite wrong. Libertarian principles entail freedom of movement and freedom of association for everyone.

Libertarianism necessitates open borders.

That is patently false.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

The false assumption here is that there is a huge welfare state in the US to begin with. That's is just plain wrong. The only welfare problem we have is with corporate welfare.

How the hell are you a libertarian if you support the welfare state and the necessary violations of the Non-Aggression Principle in order to achieve it?

 

[Ockham]

How the hell are you a libertarian if you support the welfare state and the necessary violations of the Non-Aggression Principle in order to achieve it?

To your point, no libertarian who understands the core values of Libertarians would support such a thing.