• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace [W:196]

trfjr

Banned
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
3,114
Reaction score
1,004
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Christianity is becoming more and more politically incorrect in public universities as we’ve seen time and time again. In this instance, a 19 year-old Sonoma State University student named Audrey Jarvis was asked to remove her cross necklace while working for the university because it might offend potential incoming students. But Jarvis refused and ended up leaving her job early that day. In order to continue wearing it, she had to seek a religions accommodation

Student told by University official to remove cross necklace because it might offend potential students » The Right Scoop -

first reported by Fox news

A Sonoma State University student was ordered to remove a cross necklace by a supervisor who thought other students might find it offensive, in a case that prompted even one campus official to speculate that “political correctness got out of hand.”

Audrey Jarvis, 19, a liberal arts major at the northern California university, said she had no choice but to seek a “religious accommodation” in order to wear the cross. Her lawyer said she deserves an apology, and the school seems ready to oblige.

“It’s amazing in this day of diversity and tolerance on university campuses that a university official would engage in this type of obvious religious discrimination,” said Hiram Sasser, an attorney with Liberty Institute, which is representing Jarvis.

Jarvis was working for the university’s Associated Students Productions at a June 27 student orientation fair for incoming freshmen when her supervisor told her to remove the two-inch-long cross necklace, according to Sasser.

Sasser said the supervisor told her that the chancellor had a policy against wearing religious items and further explained “that she could not wear her cross necklace because it might offend others, it might make incoming students feel unwelcome, or it might cause incoming students to feel that ASP was not an organization they should join.”
University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes


so what is next are they going to go back and start throwing Christians to the lions?

would the university asked a female Muslim student to remove her head scarf?

why is the Christians faith allowed to be ridiculed and persecuted but you better not even think about disrespecting the Muslim faith?
 
Last edited:

zgoldsmith23

Antichrist
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
7,692
Reaction score
3,368
Location
TN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Student told by University official to remove cross necklace because it might offend potential students » The Right Scoop -

first reported by Fox news

so what is next are they going to go back and start throwing Christians to the lions?

Bit of a slippery slope, don't ya think?

would the university asked a female Muslim student to remove her head scarf?

why is the Christians faith allowed to be ridiculed and prosecuted but you better not even think about disrespecting the Muslim faith?

Her 'head scarf?' :lol: You mean a hijab (I hope I spelled that correctly)? Glad to see your ignorance is showing on other religions. Anyway, yes, they probably could (and would) have asked her to remove it. Christianity is ridiculed more in America. Why? Because it's more prevalent, much more so, than Islam. Statistics aren't your thing, are they? I'll disrespect Islam, too.

Oh, and from your source:

[T]he chancellor had a policy against wearing religious items
 

Wiseone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,551
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Student told by University official to remove cross necklace because it might offend potential students » The Right Scoop -

first reported by Fox news


University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes


so what is next are they going to go back and start throwing Christians to the lions?

would the university asked a female Muslim student to remove her head scarf?

why is the Christians faith allowed to be ridiculed and persecuted but you better not even think about disrespecting the Muslim faith?

Well that escalated quickly
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
so what is next are they going to go back and start throwing Christians to the lions?

Histrionic much?

would the university asked a female Muslim student to remove her head scarf?

The university didn't ask the kid to remove her necklace.

A single individual employed by the university did.

As the Fox news article concedes, the "university" is prepared to appologize to the student for that employee's behavior and has already appologized publicly:

University spokeswoman Susan Kashack confirmed to Fox News that the incident occurred and expressed extreme regret.

“Someone who works here was concerned that the cross might be off-putting to students who are coming to campus for the first time,” she said, adding that the supervisor was “completely wrong.”

“It was absolutely an inappropriate action for him to make that request of her,” she said.

Kashack said Sonoma State President Ruben Arminana was “angered” by the incident and they are trying to contact Jarvis so they can apologize.

“The president was very upset about it and asked me to contact Miss Jarvis and give a profuse apology,” she said.

She said they have spoken with the employee involved in the incident but won’t reveal the contents of their discussion or whether he was punished.

“Things like this don’t happen here,” she said. “It’s very unusual. People here are very aware of discrimination. It’s possible that political correctness got out of hand.”

why is the Christians faith allowed to be ridiculed and prosecuted but you better not even think about disrespecting the Muslim faith?

Is the faith really being "ridiculed" here?

Ridicule said:
rid·i·cule
ridiˌkyool/Noun
The subjection of someone or something to mockery and derision.

Seems to me that there's an AWFUL lot of white space between "Hey, would you mind taking that Cross off so as not to possibly offend someone" and "mockery and derision".

I've made no secret about the fact that I'm agnostic.

But neither have I made it a secret that I'm perfectly content with religious folks doing their religious stuff, even in public schools, so long as nobody who doesn't want to enegage in their religious stuff isn't mandatorily subjected to religion.

To me this girl wearing a Cross falls into the "perfectly fine and I support it 110%" category.

Obviously her supervisor doesn't agree with me, and I'd argue that her supervisor is an asshat for not agreeing with me, but it seems the school is on the side of the student and myself in thinking that the supervisor (who probably meant well) was (nevertheless) wrong.

Why is it that some Christians feel they need to climb up on the Cross at every perceived slight?

ETA:

I'd hit it:

AudreyJarvis1-140x300.jpg
 
Last edited:

YoungConserv

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
3,083
Reaction score
601
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Pull the public funding if this is hopping to just happening tochristianity them the school is activly choosing what religions are acceptable and that is dangerously close to a state religion.
 

Chaddelamancha

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
4,177
Reaction score
1,458
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We could turn this into one of those "The University is trying to restrict Christians religious freedom!" fanciful arguments. Or, we can see this for what it is. A supervisor wanting to encourage as many students to sign up for his/her organization (The ASP) and doesn't want anyone to be discouraged in any way. It's no different than an employer telling their employee to cover up their tattoos when clients are around. No one asked her to renounce her faith, commit a sin, or even blaspheme. Get over it.

And comparing a cross necklace (not required by the Christian faith) to a Hajib (required by the muslim faith) is apples to oranges.


Student told by University official to remove cross necklace because it might offend potential students » The Right Scoop -

first reported by Fox news


University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes


so what is next are they going to go back and start throwing Christians to the lions?

would the university asked a female Muslim student to remove her head scarf?

why is the Christians faith allowed to be ridiculed and prosecuted but you better not even think about disrespecting the Muslim faith?
 

trfjr

Banned
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
3,114
Reaction score
1,004
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Bit of a slippery slope, don't ya think?



Her 'head scarf?' :lol: You mean a hijab (I hope I spelled that correctly)? Glad to see your ignorance is showing on other religions. Anyway, yes, they probably could (and would) have asked her to remove it. Christianity is ridiculed more in America. Why? Because it's more prevalent, much more so, than Islam. Statistics aren't your thing, are they? I'll disrespect Islam, too.

Oh, and from your source:

did a little research after you called me out disrespectfully i will add on the head scarf looked up hijab and yes it is a head wear worn by some Muslim women but it is also referred to as a head scarf

Wearing a hijab, or headscarf, is common among women and is required dress in some Muslim countries.

How to Wear the Muslim Headscarf | eHow
 

YoungConserv

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
3,083
Reaction score
601
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
We could turn this into one of those "The University is trying to restrict Christians religious freedom!" fanciful arguments. Or, we can see this for what it is. A supervisor wanting to encourage as many students to sign up for his/her organization (The ASP) and doesn't want anyone to be discouraged in any way. It's no different than an employer telling their employee to cover up their tattoos when clients are around. No one asked her to renounce her faith, commit a sin, or even blaspheme. Get over it.

And comparing a cross necklace (not required by the Christian faith) to a Hajib (required by the muslim faith) is apples to oranges.

Matthew 28:19 ESV

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Seems like a comand from Jesus there and maybe to her wearing that cross is her proclaiming the name of Christ.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Matthew 28:19 ESV

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Seems like a comand from Jesus there and maybe to her wearing that cross is her proclaiming the name of Christ.

Matthew 6:5 ESV

“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

Seems like Jesus also commanded his disciples to not make a spectacle of themselves.

But sexy little Audrey got her picture in the paper, at least.

I guess for some Christians it's more important that they get their 20 minutes of fame when they're seen getting their Christ on than that they'd obey their Master's dictates.
 

Chaddelamancha

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
4,177
Reaction score
1,458
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That's all fine and dandy, but it would seem the the organization didn't want her to convert anyone to her religious faith because that is not the intent of the organization. If she can't abide by that, guess what? Yup, she doesn't get to be part of the organization. You want to be part of the group, you have to follow the same rules as everyone else.

Matthew 28:19 ESV

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Seems like a comand from Jesus there and maybe to her wearing that cross is her proclaiming the name of Christ.
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
64
Reaction score
34
Location
Texas, RGV
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Centrist
And here is the problem with religious "requirements"... Often the cited references are vague at best... open to interpretations that are dependent upon the readers outlook and opinion.

A quick search of the "requirement" that muslim women cover thier hair is enlightening. As is the "requirement" that christians go out and "witness" for the purpose of converting people.

I have no problem with any individual wearing a piece of jewlery that reflects thier religious belief. I think this particular situation has been overblown (by Fox news) with the purpose of getting a knee jerk reaction from a particular group of people. I have seen this same type of thing on the same "news station". I fail to see why people do not understand that ALL mainstream media is a business. They are not giving you the news. They are selling a product and often "preaching to a choir".

Just my two cents.
 

Wiseone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,551
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Histrionic much?



The university didn't ask the kid to remove her necklace.

A single individual employed by the university did.

As the Fox news article concedes, the "university" is prepared to appologize to the student for that employee's behavior and has already appologized publicly:





Is the faith really being "ridiculed" here?



Seems to me that there's an AWFUL lot of white space between "Hey, would you mind taking that Cross off so as not to possibly offend someone" and "mockery and derision".

I've made no secret about the fact that I'm agnostic.

But neither have I made it a secret that I'm perfectly content with religious folks doing their religious stuff, even in public schools, so long as nobody who doesn't want to enegage in their religious stuff isn't mandatorily subjected to religion.

To me this girl wearing a Cross falls into the "perfectly fine and I support it 110%" category.

Obviously her supervisor doesn't agree with me, and I'd argue that her supervisor is an asshat for not agreeing with me, but it seems the school is on the side of the student and myself in thinking that the supervisor (who probably meant well) was (nevertheless) wrong.

Why is it that some Christians feel they need to climb up on the Cross at every perceived slight?

ETA:

I'd hit it:

View attachment 67149771

tumblr_lx7lua9roS1r4b2weo1_500.gif


Show me more please.
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Student told by University official to remove cross necklace because it might offend potential students » The Right Scoop -

first reported by Fox news


University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes


so what is next are they going to go back and start throwing Christians to the lions?

Maybe they'll just suggest that the Christians join the lions for lunch in the spirit of inter-species harmony



"Political correctness does not legislate tolerance. It only organizes hatred." ~Jacques Barzun

would the university asked a female Muslim student to remove her head scarf?

why is the Christians faith allowed to be ridiculed and persecuted but you better not even think about disrespecting the Muslim faith?




Maybe they'll just suggest that the Christians join the lions for lunch in the spirit of inter-species harmony
 
Last edited:

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Ha. It is all about PR. I know a college that brought in a bunch of black and Asian undergrads to scatter about as props for photos for their grad school materials because they only had a couple blacks admitted to that particular grad school and no Asians at the time and wanted to appear diverse to prospective students. It pissed a whole bunch of people off too to have these non-grad students scatter into the classroom "candid" shots and the like.
 

trfjr

Banned
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
3,114
Reaction score
1,004
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
That's all fine and dandy, but it would seem the the organization didn't want her to convert anyone to her religious faith because that is not the intent of the organization. If she can't abide by that, guess what? Yup, she doesn't get to be part of the organization. You want to be part of the group, you have to follow the same rules as everyone else.

she was wearing a cross how is that interpreted as trying to convert anyone?
is a Muslim women wearing hijab a sign of her trying to convert people to Islam?
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
There is no need to make this about the sensitivity of christians or the equal sensitivity of anti-christians. The relevent portion has already been noted:

University spokeswoman Susan Kashack confirmed to Fox News that the incident occurred and expressed extreme regret.

“Someone who works here was concerned that the cross might be off-putting to students who are coming to campus for the first time,” she said, adding that the supervisor was “completely wrong.”

“It was absolutely an inappropriate action for him to make that request of her,” she said.

Kashack said Sonoma State President Ruben Arminana was “angered” by the incident and they are trying to contact Jarvis so they can apologize.

“The president was very upset about it and asked me to contact Miss Jarvis and give a profuse apology,” she said.

She said they have spoken with the employee involved in the incident but won’t reveal the contents of their discussion or whether he was punished.

“Things like this don’t happen here,” she said. “It’s very unusual. People here are very aware of discrimination. It’s possible that political correctness got out of hand.”

The part I bolded is the answer. The university was not behind this nor does it endorse such action. A fanatical crusader for poltical correctness jumped the shark.
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,604
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
So there's a policy against wearing any religious items at these kind of events. The student is not being discriminated against. She is, in fact, complaining about having to follow the same rules as everyone else. The issue here is not that Christians are getting worse treatment than anyone else, it's that they're not getting special treatment.

This is the epitome of privilege. When fair treatment feels like discrimination, you had privilege. Take comfort that you still will never be treated as poorly as you treat us.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I have no problem with any individual wearing a piece of jewlery that reflects thier religious belief.

Me neither.

I don't have a problem with them praying in public.

I don't have a problem with them hanging little baby Jesuses on their trees at Christmas.

I don't even have a problem with them coming up to me and saying, "I'm a Christian, can I tell you about Chirst and how you can save your soul?"

So long as they STFU when I tell them to get lost.

I only have a problem when they force their beliefs (Scriptural, theological, dogmatic, whathaveyou) on me or when they think it's cool that they legislate my behavior based on their beliefs and morality (or maybe it would be better to say "on the morality they claim to have" since I've seen far, far, far, far, far too many examples of Christians not even coming close to practicing what they preach - but that's cool because God forgives them if they "try" not to be douchebags in the same way again).

I think this particular situation has been overblown (by Fox news) with the purpose of getting a knee jerk reaction from a particular group of people. I have seen this same type of thing on the same "news station". I fail to see why people do not understand that ALL mainstream media is a business. They are not giving you the news. They are selling a product and often "preaching to a choir".

Naaaahhhh.

The MSM would NEVER do something like that.
 

Master PO

Mixed Government advocate
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
32,516
Reaction score
5,321
Location
93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
i will put it like this......if its a private school, and takes no money, grants, loans, anything from government, then the school is in the right.

if its a state school, or takes any government funds, its in violation of the law.
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
So there's a policy against wearing any religious items at these kind of events. The student is not being discriminated against. She is, in fact, complaining about having to follow the same rules as everyone else. The issue here is not that Christians are getting worse treatment than anyone else, it's that they're not getting special treatment.

This is the epitome of privilege. When fair treatment feels like discrimination, you had privilege. Take comfort that you still will never be treated as poorly as you treat us.

Absolute nonsense and easily countered by the facts.

Someone who works here was concerned that the cross might be off-putting to students who are coming to campus for the first time,” she said, adding that the supervisor was “completely wrong.”

“It was absolutely an inappropriate action for him to make that request of her,” she said.

Kashack said Sonoma State President Ruben Arminana was “angered” by the incident and they are trying to contact Jarvis so they can apologize.

The president was very upset about it and asked me to contact Miss Jarvis and give a profuse apology,” she said.

She said they have spoken with the employee involved in the incident but won’t reveal the contents of their discussion or whether he was punished.
 

Chaddelamancha

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
4,177
Reaction score
1,458
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
A cross is not the same as a hijab. You're missing the point. If she wants to be a part of the ASP program, then she has to abide by the rules. Asking her to put the cross in her shirt isn't an attack on her faith no matter how loud one yells about it.


she was wearing a cross how is that interpreted as trying to convert anyone?
is a Muslim women wearing hijab a sign of her trying to convert people to Islam?
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That's complete ****ing nonsense and I hope she sues the school and wins.

WTF would she sue them for?

"And then, and then, he told me to take my Cross off, and my spirit shattered. I think I've got the PTSD. A large financial settlement is the only thing that will make my spirit whole."

Good grief.

Maybe we should throw Christians to the lions, or at least forbid them from marrying. Remind them what real persecution is.
 
Top Bottom