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Universal Immigration?

It's how we used to view immigration.
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Who is we, and when was this? That is not how the majority of Americans ever viewed immigration. When we had uses for large number of farmers and unskilled workers then perhaps it made sence to allow large numbers of immigrants in, but that wasnt true in all of US history. Right now we dont need any more Gardeners.

And what exactly did you do to deserve the opportunity except be lucky enough to be born here?
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Being born in a nation makes you a citizen, and you deserve all the opportunities your nation has to offer. Being born in another nation does not make you a citizen, and thus you have to provide some benefit to the nation your emigrating to in exhange for an opportunity. Other wise the whole idea of nations disentegrates and you end up with Anarchy.
Also I am in school to be an educator so I am giving back for the opportunity my nation has given me.
 

So there are no other unskilled labor jobs in this country besides gardening? What's the problem if they're not getting any welfare checks?


So why do I deserve the opportunity and education that I get in this country more than some kid born in Russia? What did I do to deserve it?

I'm not asking for anarchy, I'm just showing that there is no reason to close up shop here. We don't deserve the opportunity that we have more than anyone else. It was just luck of the draw.
 
So there are no other unskilled labor jobs in this country besides gardening? What's the problem if they're not getting any welfare checks?
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The problem is that they do not pay taxes for the most part, and they do use our over stressed education and medical centers. While moving the money they make over seas.


So why do I deserve the opportunity and education that I get in this country more than some kid born in Russia? What did I do to deserve it?
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You were born here, that is the definition of a nation. Unless you want to enlighten me about the beauty of the one world state utopia that we live in.

I'm not asking for anarchy, I'm just showing that there is no reason to close up shop here. We don't deserve the opportunity that we have more than anyone else. It was just luck of the draw.
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It is the luck of the draw, what is your point? You fail to grasp the principle of the nation state, so we cannot debate if we dont agree on definitions.
 
OxymoronP said:
The problem is that they do not pay taxes for the most part, and they do use our over stressed education and medical centers. While moving the money they make over seas.
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And if we let them in legally they would pay taxes upon punishment of deportation (obviously we wouldn't let these people come back in).


Why do I deserve the benefits more than a kid born in Russia? I don't, so how can I in good conscience deny that kid the opportunities of this country?
 
And if we let them in legally they would pay taxes upon punishment of deportation (obviously we wouldn't let these people come back in).
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I would allow unskilled employees in, only if companies can show a need beyond a reasonable doubt and the immigrants . Otherwise simply not being a criminal should not be a qualification.

Why do I deserve the benefits more than a kid born in Russia? I don't, so how can I in good conscience deny that kid the opportunities of this country
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I think we should agree to disagree, because you dont believe in nation states while I do.
 
phattonez said:
Why do I deserve the benefits more than a kid born in Russia? I don't, so how can I in good conscience deny that kid the opportunities of this country?
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They should work to improve their own country instead of slipping over to ours. It was you and I and our ancestors that made this country what it is.

Its alot like building a home for your family. You work hard to provide that home and to shape it the way you want it. That doesnt mean you want someone from down the street moving in just because they also like it.
 

So why should I get the opportunity while someone else does not. What makes me more deserving of it?
 
phattonez said:
So why should I get the opportunity while someone else does not. What makes me more deserving of it?
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Persons born here have more time, effort, and taxes expended here. A person from outside the country probably has had expended zero resources into making the country what it is.

Why dont they work to improve there own country instead of reaping our fruits?
 

So won't the people who move here expend their time, effort, and taxes, along with their children? According to this argument, NO ONE should ever move here; well isn't that hypocritical?
 
phattonez said:
So won't the people who move here expend their time, effort, and taxes, along with their children? According to this argument, NO ONE should ever move here; well isn't that hypocritical?
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I have no problem with allowing people to come here legally but I do not believe we should just open our borders.
 
Baralis said:
I have no problem with allowing people to come here legally but I do not believe we should just open our borders.
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Well defend that position. Why shouldn't we just open our borders?
 
OxymoronP said:
We are not better or worse, we are Americans they are Russians.

Can you answer my question, I am not trying to catch you. Just want to understand where your coming from. What is a nation state?
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There are a lot of definitions. According to Carl Schmitt, it would be a group of people with a similar way of life that defend themselves from threats to that way of life.
 
I don't really have a good definition, because I don't see the necessity of a nation other than the protection of the people that live there.
 
phattonez said:
I don't really have a good definition, because I don't see the necessity of a nation other than the protection of the people that live there.
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why should the nation protect its people and not other people? Are you better then someone living in another nation simply because you were lucky enough to be born here? You see where I am going with this?
 
The nation should defend the people that choose to live here.
 
OxymoronP said:
:doh This isnt the marry go round you know, ok I guess you are too far gone into utopian ideas.
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It's not a utopian ideal. A nation should represent ideals, not necessarily your place of birth. You should live in a country that you agree with, the country that will defend your way of life.
 
phattonez said:
It's not a utopian ideal. A nation should represent ideals, not necessarily your place of birth. You should live in a country that you agree with, the country that will defend your way of life.
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Exactly and if that nation wants to accept you then groovy baby. Nations arent bound to accept you simply cause you want to live there. Nations have obligations to people who are already citizens, or the whole idea of nation dissolves.
 
But for what reason will this nation reject people who want to live with us? What's the harm?
 
phattonez said:
But for what reason will this nation reject people who want to live with us? What's the harm?
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The people living there have a right to have their own standards. If they feel you would be a contribution then they should let you in, if not they have a right to not allow you in. That is what a nation is, by dictating what the nation is , it is no longer a free nation to its citizens.
 

But we still get to the problem of what makes me more deserving? Let's go with your definition. Why should we as a nation exclude people from coming in?
 
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